Moffat Tunnel Closed?

[AlanB]

Interesting that they aren't going to provide a bus to Grand Junction like they've done in the past.

According to the Amtrak Reservations Website, they DO offer a bus from Denver to Glenwood Springs and to Grand Junction for WESTBOUND passengers on the CZ for those dates, with the notice that the bus is now "sold out". Presumably they made room for those with existing tickets but nobody else.

For EASTBOUND passengers, it appears that they are out of luck. Amtrak just suggests deferring the trip for a week, otherwise says there's nothing they can do.

Not very imaginative of them, as you point out.

OK, My EB on CZ is disrupted in SLC. I don't want BUS service or detour, I want what I paid for??????????????? :angry:

Well you won't be riding a bus, but if your dates hit the right time frame, you could well be doing the detour. The detour isn't horrible by any means. It's not quite a scenic sadly, but it's still a very nice ride. And now you'll have a reason to ride Amtrak again in the future, to go through the Moffat tunnel.

 

[the_traveler]

Interesting that they aren't going to provide a bus to Grand Junction like they've done in the past.

According to the Amtrak Reservations Website, they DO offer a bus from Denver to Glenwood Springs and to Grand Junction for WESTBOUND passengers on the CZ for those dates, with the notice that the bus is now "sold out". Presumably they made room for those with existing tickets but nobody else.

For EASTBOUND passengers, it appears that they are out of luck. Amtrak just suggests deferring the trip for a week, otherwise says there's nothing they can do.

That's what they've done in the past too - #5 with connecting buses to GSC and GJT only, but nothing from #6 to them. And nothing from them for #5 going west, and buses for #6 heading east only.

 

[p&sr]

According to the Amtrak Reservations Website, they DO offer a bus from Denver to Glenwood Springs and to Grand Junction for WESTBOUND passengers on the CZ for those dates, with the notice that the bus is now "sold out".

Funny thing, looking again today and the busses are NOT "sold out". Maybe they found some more busses?

The point being, if you really want certain tickets, keep checking because you never know... they MIGHT just become available!

Looking forward to some "rare mileage" on the Wyoming Bypass next month.

 

[Rafi]

Funny thing, looking again today and the busses are NOT "sold out". Maybe they found some more busses?
The point being, if you really want certain tickets, keep checking because you never know... they MIGHT just become available!

Looking forward to some "rare mileage" on the Wyoming Bypass next month.

In chatting with reservations last week about it, the rep I spoke with told me that the entire run of the train, including busses, had been locked out from any new reservations while they worked to re-accommodate everyone who had already booked. Sounds like they've finished up with that process and have opened booking back up.

-Rafi

 

[ThayerATM]

ATM,
So far there is no indication that Amtrak is planning to bus people, unless they are going to one of the bypassed stops, namely the stops between Denver and Salt Lake City. You're not going to one of those stops, so you'll remain on the train during the detour through Wyoming.

The train will make no passenger stops during the detour between Denver and Salt Lake City. It will make one crew stop and if luck is with you, then you may be able to detrain briefly at Green River should you wish to stretch your legs.

But again the only people being bussed, if the above is true, are those going to a stop between Denver and Salt Lake City. Anyone in it for the long haul, stays on the train.

OK, next question.

I've read that the westbound Zephyr leg through Wyoming from DEN to SLC takes less time than the trip through the Rockies, and also the eastbound leg from SLC to DEN. When the westbound arrives in SLC, or the eastbound arrives in DEN, do the trains wait at those stations in order to get back to their original timetable, as if they had gone through the Rockies?

 

[PRR 60]

OK, next question.I've read that the westbound Zephyr leg through Wyoming from DEN to SLC takes less time than the trip through the Rockies, and also the eastbound leg from SLC to DEN. When the westbound arrives in SLC, or the eastbound arrives in DEN, do the trains wait at those stations in order to get back to their original timetable, as if they had gone through the Rockies?

Yes, they wait until the normal departure times westbound from Salt Lake City and eastbould from Denver. When I rode the Wyoming detour on a westbound Zephyr last year, we held at SLC for over three hours in order to leave on-schedule.

 

[ThayerATM]

OK, next question.I've read that the westbound Zephyr leg through Wyoming from DEN to SLC takes less time than the trip through the Rockies, and also the eastbound leg from SLC to DEN. When the westbound arrives in SLC, or the eastbound arrives in DEN, do the trains wait at those stations in order to get back to their original timetable, as if they had gone through the Rockies?

Yes, they wait until the normal departure times westbound from Salt Lake City and eastbould from Denver. When I rode the Wyoming detour on a westbound Zephyr last year, we held at SLC for over three hours in order to leave on-schedule.

Kewl,

Thanks for that info.

On the westbound trip, that would currently drop us in SLC as early as 8:05P (using 3 hours as an estimate) with a departure time of 11:35P The SLC light rail system is pretty sophisticated, but I don't know if I could find a local whoopie parlor or watering hole in SLC in order to get back to the train in time. I'm not even sure there's one to be found. <_<

However, notwithstanding those inhibitions, the eastbound trip offers us an arrival in DEN as early as 4:43P (3 hour estimate)with a departure of 8:10P. I'm sure there's somewhere in DEN to find the aforementioned whoopie parlor and watering hole, and arrive back at the station for the schedued departure time.

ATM

 

[p&sr]

Looking forward to some "rare mileage" on the Wyoming Bypass next month.

This weekend Amtrak finally posted the notice about the Wyoming Detour for the California Zephyr.

As of this morning, the effective dates are said to be May 27 through May 29 and June 8 through June 15 (for the actual dates for travel between Denver and Salt Lake City).

Subject to change, of course!

 

[yarrow]

Service Alert: California Zephyr Trains 5 and 6 — Service Cancellations and Adjustments Between Denver and Salt Lake City

Effective May 27 - May 29 and June 8 - June 15

Beginning May 27 through May 29 and June 8 through June 15, California Zephyr Trains 5 and 6 will operate on an alternate route between Denver, Colo., and Salt Lake City, Utah due to track work being performed by Union Pacific Railroad.

To accommodate this project, service changes have been made that will affect passengers boarding or detraining at Fraser-Winter Park, Granby, Glenwood Springs and Grand Junction, Colo., and Green River, Helper and Provo, Utah. For details, please refer to the opposite side of this notice.

Trains 5 and 6 will detour through southern Wyoming, affecting service between Denver and Salt Lake City on the dates below:

Detour Dates Between Denver and Salt Lake City

May 27 through May 29

June 8 through June 15

Please note: These are the dates the trains will travel between Denver and Salt Lake City. Westbound Train 5 from Chicago and eastbound Train 6 from Emeryville, Calif., originate one day earlier.

During this period, Trains 5 and 6 will not travel through the Rocky Mountains or follow the Colorado River. The detour will follow a portion of the historic transcontinental Union Pacific route completed in 1869 that offers views of broad vistas, wildlife and high plains.

Westbound Train 5: Chicago to Emeryville

Train 5 will operate on its normal route to Denver. At Denver, the train will travel through southern Wyoming, and will not make any stops between Denver and Salt Lake City, as described below. The train will resume its normal route from Salt Lake City to Emeryville.

Glenwood Springs and Grand Junction Service Changes

Passengers on westbound Train 5 who are destined for Glenwood Springs and Grand Junction on the dates of the reroute will be provided motorcoach service from Denver to those stations.

Please note: The motorcoach departures are not the same as the scheduled train departures. Westbound Train 5 will arrive at Denver at 7:15 a.m. where passengers will transfer to the motorcoach, which departs Denver at 7:45 a.m., arrives at Glenwood Springs at 11:00 a.m., and Grand Junction at 12:45 p.m.

NO SERVICE will be provided for westbound passengers boarding at Glenwood Springs and Grand Junction on the dates of the reroute.

Fraser-Winter Park, Granby, Green River, Helper and Provo Service Cancellations

On the days of the reroute, NO SERVICE will be provided to or from Fraser/Winter Park, Colo., Granby, Colo., and Green River, Helper or Provo, Utah.

Eastbound Train 6: Emeryville to Chicago

Train 6 will operate on its normal route to Salt Lake City. The train will detour at Salt Lake City and travel through southern Wyoming, not making any stops between Salt Lake City and Denver, as described below. The train will resume its normal route from Denver to Chicago.

Grand Junction and Glenwood Springs Service Changes

Passengers boarding at Grand Junction and Glenwood Springs on the dates of the reroute will be provided motorcoach service to Denver, where they will board eastbound Train 6 destined for Chicago and intermediate stations.

Please note: The motorcoach departures are not the same as the scheduled train departures. The motorcoach will depart Grand Junction at 1:30 p.m., Glenwood Springs at 3:25 p.m. and arrive at Denver at 6:25 p.m., where passengers may board eastbound Train 6, which arrives at 7:43 p.m.

NO SERVICE will be provided for eastbound passengers destined for Grand Junction and Glenwood Springs on the dates of the reroute.

Provo, Helper, Green River, Granby and Fraser-Winter Park Service Cancellations

On the days of the reroute, NO SERVICE will be provided to or from Provo, Helper, Green River, Granby or Fraser-Winter Park.

We appreciate your patience and apologize for any inconvenience you may experience

PSN 508-260

 

[yarrow]

does anyone know if the moffat tunnel work was done and completed on schedule? i see amtrak will book to the stops in the rockies and utah which would be bypassed going through wyoming. i hope that means the work is finished? thanks

 

[VentureForth]

Bummer I didn't read this thread when it first came up. I would have loved to try and get some rare mileage!

I wish that they would have kept the Corona/Rollins Pass tracked for times like this... Ha. Know that's not financially practical. Made the drive up to 11,660 feet several times and just absolutely LOVE it up there!

 

[PRR 60]

Bummer I didn't read this thread when it first came up. I would have loved to try and get some rare mileage!
I wish that they would have kept the Corona/Rollins Pass tracked for times like this... Ha. Know that's not financially practical. Made the drive up to 11,660 feet several times and just absolutely LOVE it up there!

Tennessee Pass would have been a fun detour also. Sadly, that's gone too.

 

[Rafi]

does anyone know if the moffat tunnel work was done and completed on schedule? i see amtrak will book to the stops in the rockies and utah which would be bypassed going through wyoming. i hope that means the work is finished? thanks

Yep, work is done, and I can report that from the trenches, as it were...

I picked up the Zephyr on Saturday, June 15 in Emeryville, and took it to Denver. This was the last eastbound Zephyr to use the Wyoming detour. It was a fluke stroke of good luck for me (railfan-wise), because I had initially booked a trip to Grand Junction, and Amtrak ended up rebooking me to Denver, and then throwing me on the westbound Zephyr on Monday, the 16th to Grand Junction (the first westbound train on the normal route following the track work).

The detour was fantastic, and I'm so glad I saw it. As everyone reports, the scenery isn't jaw dropping, but it is incredibly relaxing and filled beautiful "big sky" vistas. I highly recommend it for anyone who considers going during next year's track work.

Heading west out of Denver on Monday, there were still some ROW crews tying up loose ends (note that the work, as far as I know, was NOT on the Moffatt Tunnel—just on right of way, mainly focused on the ascent out of Denver and in the canyons themselves), but the train had a highball for 99% of the trip, and even though we ended up leaving Denver about 30 mins late, we were early into Grand Junction, so it's clear that speeds have increased. I wouldn't be surprised if the Zephyr schedule gets one of the promised speed boosts in the next timetable. Pics can be found here:

Click Here

The detour pics run from 3342 to 3518 and the normal route pics run from 3539 to 3653. (the pic in the middle is just of Downtown denver, where I had to overnight).

-Rafi

P.S. Here's a GPS mapping of the detour, for those who are interested (click for a larger version):



The detour starts at Salt Lake City and ends at Denver, obviously. I've included the normal Amtrak stops between Nevada and Denver just for comparison's sake.

 

[yarrow]

thanks rafi for the report. we will be on the cz, for the first time, 6/22 sac-den and really are looking forward to going through the rockies

 

[p&sr]

I picked up the Zephyr on Saturday, June 15 in Emeryville... Amtrak ended up rebooking me to Denver, and then throwing me on the westbound Zephyr on Monday, the 16th to Grand Junction (the first westbound train on the normal route following the track work).
The detour was fantastic, and I'm so glad I saw it. As everyone reports, the scenery isn't jaw dropping, but it is incredibly relaxing and filled beautiful "big sky" vistas. I highly recommend it for anyone who considers going during next year's track work.

Thanks for the report! An excellent routing they offered you, the Best of Both Routes.

I took the Wyoming Bypass westbound on Friday, June 13, and found it to be exceptionally beautiful. I had already taken the Moffat Route several times, and still consider that Route to be one of the Scenic Highlights of America. But the Wyoming Bypass has its own appeal, and is no more "inferior" to the Moffat Route than either the EB or the SWC. All of them outstanding, just different.

In particular, there were spectacular views of snowy mountains, including the Front Range of Colorado, the Wind River Range of Wyoming, and the Wasatch Range of Utah. The gentle transformation from flat Prairie to rolling country at Sherman Hill (8000 ft elevation) was interesting, with pine trees and aspen and colorful rock outcroppings. And for hundreds of miles we kept seeing Pronghorn Antelope along the Route, as well as Prairie Dog Colonies.

Definitely a great trip!

 

[RailBirder]

[Yep, work is done, and I can report that from the trenches, as it were...
I picked up the Zephyr on Saturday, June 15 in Emeryville, and took it to Denver. This was the last eastbound Zephyr to use the Wyoming detour.

The rail gang is on their rest days for a week or so. They will be back for another round of soon, with another week or so of detours. The work is not actually in the Moffutt Tunnel, but at Bond on the Moffutt Tunnel Subdivision.

 

[iowa train fan]

You guys are killing me!!!!! Here I have been all worried about Miwest flooding and now you say there may be further detours by end of June. I will be on CZ July 4-7. Sounds like my whole trip will be on bus. Bus from Omaha to Denver and bus from Denver to Glenwood Springs. What's the sense!!!!! I know this isn't Amtrak's fault. If anyone has further thoughts or ideas please let me know. Thank You

 

[yarrow]

You guys are killing me!!!!! Here I have been all worried about Miwest flooding and now you say there may be further detours by end of June. I will be on CZ July 4-7. Sounds like my whole trip will be on bus. Bus from Omaha to Denver and bus from Denver to Glenwood Springs. What's the sense!!!!! I know this isn't Amtrak's fault. If anyone has further thoughts or ideas please let me know. Thank You

iowa, i share your consternation. the floods, of course, couldn't be forseen. as far as the track work in the rockies it seems like amtrak could get a firm commitment from u.p. on work dates or at least let those making reservations know about the track work and that the dates aren't firm. we are on the cs and the cz over the coming weekend and don't know if we will have a parlour car on the cs or if we will take our anticipated trip through the rockies. these are a couple main reasons we are taking amtrak on this trip. remember,nothing is ever amtrak's fault

 

[iowa train fan]

iowa, i share your consternation. the floods, of course, couldn't be forseen. as far as the track work in the rockies it seems like amtrak could get a firm commitment from u.p. on work dates or at least let those making reservations know about the track work and that the dates aren't firm. we are on the cs and the cz over the coming weekend and don't know if we will have a parlour car on the cs or if we will take our anticipated trip through the rockies. these are a couple main reasons we are taking amtrak on this trip. remember,nothing is ever amtrak's fault

I wish you the best of luck with your trip as well, I hope all goes well. I guess Amtrak travelers have to always have a plan B in the back of their minds. As with you, I wish Amtrak would be more up front with updates and possible delays or challanges. Just because they set up alternate transportation doen't make it any easier, we travel Amtrak because we love train travel, not air, not car and certainly not bus!!!!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Whats the problem? You'll get some rare mileage on a nice detour.

 

[yarrow]

Whats the problem? You'll get some rare mileage on a nice detour.

a couple problems.

first, the route through the rockies is supposed to one of the most beautiful rail journeys anywhere. my understanding is that amtrak uses that route because of the beauty even though it is slower. it is something we especially want to see.

second, if the route is unavailable so be it, but it seems to me that amtrak should realize a lot of people look forward to the rockies as a big part of their trip. they should therefore publish firm dates when the route will not be available(barring emergencies)or they should inform customers that the route may or may not be used during a given time frame and people can take their chances

 

[Rafi]

Whats the problem? You'll get some rare mileage on a nice detour.

a couple problems.

first, the route through the rockies is supposed to one of the most beautiful rail journeys anywhere. my understanding is that amtrak uses that route because of the beauty even though it is slower. it is something we especially want to see.

second, if the route is unavailable so be it, but it seems to me that amtrak should realize a lot of people look forward to the rockies as a big part of their trip. they should therefore publish firm dates when the route will not be available(barring emergencies)or they should inform customers that the route may or may not be used during a given time frame and people can take their chances

yarrow,

I understand your frustration. I may be able to lend some words of reassurance, however, that because you haven't heard anything from Amtrak, things haven't been solidified with UP as of yet with regard to possible work and/or closure of the route in the coming weeks. There's nothing to say that your trip won't go off without a hitch as of right now.

Amtrak was quite prompt in contacting me when my routing needed to change, and they were very accommodating in upgrading me to a deluxe bedroom as a consolation for the late arrival into Grand Junction. So rest assured, once UP gives Amtrak a solid date on the closure/detour (which in my observation has rarely been less than 3-4 weeks' notice), if it happens at all, you'll be getting a call from Amtrak, assuming you've given them your phone number.

Anyway, my advice is to just sit tight for now, and if you're feeling really anxious about it, just try booking some dummy trips online every few days to points between SLC and DEN to see if anything turns up as unavailable.

That said, even if you do miss the canyons, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised—and dare I say it, pleased—with a Wyoming detour. Many of the families on my train were upset when they found out we'd be detouring and each one later remarked to me on the detour how glad they were to have caught the rare scenery. One fellow remarked, "I'm so glad we got this lucky; I'd never have driven out here—that's for sure—and I'm glad we got to see America's John Wayne country."

-Rafi

 

[AlanB]

Just to expand a bit on Rafi's remarks, any detour of the CZ through the Rockies is out of Amtrak's hands. UP and UP alone makes the decision on when they're going to close the route for maintenance. And while UP typically does have some semblance of a master plan, that plan can go out the window on a moments notice.

Many, many UP projects either were delayed or cancelled entirely for this year thanks to the landslide in Oregon that closed one of their routes for several months. Work crews, supervisors, supplies, and money were all diverted to that catastrophe, rather than going to the places that were in the master plan.

And now, just having barely recovered from that major problem, now UP is looking at miles of rail under water. There are potential washouts, possible bridge damage, track cleanings needed, switch motor repairs or replacements, electrical work for cables and control boxes that went under water, all to be dealt with in the Iowa area. And it's still not even clear just how much damage there is, since much of the rails are still under water.

So until it is clear just how much damage there is, UP isn't going to commit to anything regarding possible detours through the Rockies. I'm certain that Amtrak would love to have a firm commitment, and frankly I think that UP wishes that they could give Amtrak such a commitment, but it's simply not possible or prudent for UP to do so at this time while in the middle of yet another major crisis this year.

I realize that this doesn't really help those who are worried about trips, but this is the reality. If you want someone to blame, then please blame Mother Nature, not Amtrak or UP.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

And don't forget that all meals are free when you book a room in the sleeping car

I prefer "complimentary" since the price is built into the room.

Yes, by accommodations I meant sleepers. I noticed that the sizes seem to vary by letter. Do they go from a to h? By cars, I was referring to Superliner vs Silverliner or Viewliner. I'm confused about that. There's just me and my wife, so we don't need a big bedroom. Good to know that this is a direct trip.

Silverliner refer to Ex-Pennsylvania Budd-built EMUs and their progeny run by Septa. I think you meant "Amfleet".

Amtrak operates two kinds of sleeper cars (as mentioned above)--Superliner and Viewliner. There isn't such a thing as a Silverliner (not now, anyway--sounds like something out of the '50s!). Viewliners are single-level and Superliners are bi-level--George explained why Superliners don't really exist on the East Coast. The consensus here seems to be that viewliners are actually nicer (especially in roomettes), as there is a second window that the top bunk can see out of.

I argue the Viewliner sentiment.

If you want someone to blame, then please blame Mother Nature, not Amtrak or UP.

But randomly holding up the Union Pacific as the cause of all Amtrak's problem's (and the resultant summary raking of them over the coals) is one of my favourite pastimes. Do I really have to refrain?

 

[jackal]

Yes, by accommodations I meant sleepers. I noticed that the sizes seem to vary by letter. Do they go from a to h? By cars, I was referring to Superliner vs Silverliner or Viewliner. I'm confused about that. There's just me and my wife, so we don't need a big bedroom. Good to know that this is a direct trip.

Silverliner refer to Ex-Pennsylvania Budd-built EMUs and their progeny run by Septa. I think you meant "Amfleet".

Just for the OP's clarification, Amfleet is a single-level Amtrak coach car. It is to a Viewliner what a Superliner coach is to a Superliner sleeper.

Try here for a run-down of the types of Amtrak cars.

And GML, were you arguing for or arguing against a Viewliner room being superior to a Superliner room? Just my own curiosity--I've never been in a Viewliner, so I was simply reporting what I thought was the general sentiment here. Maybe I'm wrong...