Mother with 5 kids kicked off Amtrak in middle of night

[HighBall]

A Glendora mother was devastated after she and her five children were kicked off an Amtrak train on their way to Texas in the middle of the night.

Link

 

[JayPea]

While Amtrak could have handled the situation much better the headline is misleading. The woman chose to get off. She wasn't kicked off.

 

[tonys96]

While Amtrak could have handled the situation much better the headline is misleading. The woman chose to get off. She wasn't kicked off.

This is true. This is "click bait" journalism at it's worst. No one was "kicked" off of the train.

 

[Anderson]

Ok, so let's see...this happened on the Sunset. It sounds like the conductor offered to have her in the SSL (where plenty of folks end up dozing) on a train where IIRC the bar would only have been open for an hour or so at most (train departs at 2200, bar usually closes at 2300 or 0000), pending getting them seated together after a stop or two. The big problem seems to have been that she probably boarded a stop out from LAX (I don't recall which stop is on the Sunset's route) and got unlucky seat-wise, and given the late hour I do not blame the conductor for not wanting to rouse a bunch of sleeping pax to try and manage a seat swap. Sad part is that there probably would have been workable seats after PSP (where she disembarked).

So...I'll give Amtrak a "could have handled better" and the customer a "did not handle well at all". Biggest problem here is that Arrow doesn't alert the staff to there being a large party with a bunch of kids so they can plan seating accordingly.

 

[the_traveler]

... she booked separate reservations due to pricing ...

And that was Amtrak's fault I suppose? "Amtrak made me do it!"

 

[Medic981]

Lack of planning on the passengers part does not constitute and emergency on Amtrak part.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I put no blame what so ever on Amtrak. She piles on with 5 kids on multiple reservations and then raises you know what when the Conductor rightly elects not to disturb an entire full Coach by waking people and playing musical chairs. Some people need to be dealt with firmly and my hat goes off to Amtrak for doing just that.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Amtrak said it ... would provide a full refund.

Amtrak admits full guilt!

No better confession, than a full refund offer.

 

[MattW]

If Amtrak would come into the 20th century and let you pick your seat, or at least assign it ahead of time like they already do with sleepers, this would not have happened. Blame is squarely on Amtrak for this :angry2:

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

If Amtrak would come into the 20th century and let you pick your seat, or at least assign it ahead of time like they already do with sleepers, this would not have happened. Blame is squarely on Amtrak for this :angry2:

How would that have prevented this?

Here, they made separate reservations (the root of all their problems). So, even if one got to pick seats, one would only be able to pick the seats for that one reservation. There is no guarantee, that with any/all future additional reservations (made hours, weeks, months later), that seats immediately next to those already selected, will still be available.

 

[TylerP42]

This is why I hate clickbait articles...

It's her own fault. She wasn't removed. They didn't escort her out. She is over-exaggerating and trying to make a story out of something that is not and trying to get money out of it.

To me, she is one of the worst kind of passenger to work with.

She chose to get off. She bought separate reservations. In my eyes, she is fully at fault here.

They didn't put her through anything. They didn't make her life hard. She made a mistake and chose to got off, I hate how the news is trying to side with her and put the blame on Amtrak. Amtrak really has nothing to due with it other than she's the one she chose to make a fake bull story about.

 

[MattW]

If Amtrak would come into the 20th century and let you pick your seat, or at least assign it ahead of time like they already do with sleepers, this would not have happened. Blame is squarely on Amtrak for this :angry2:

How would that have prevented this?

Here, they made separate reservations (the root of all their problems). So, even if one got to pick seats, one would only be able to pick the seats for that one reservation. There is no guarantee, that with any/all future additional reservations (made hours, weeks, months later), that seats immediately next to those already selected, will still be available.

Based on how the article reads, the reservations were made "separate" to save on the fares, but likely made at the same time so it is unlikely tons of seats would have gotten filled in between making the individual reservations.

This is why I hate clickbait articles...

It's her own fault. She wasn't removed. They didn't escort her out. She is over-exaggerating and trying to make a story out of something that is not and trying to get money out of it.

To me, she is one of the worst kind of passenger to work with.

She chose to get off. She bought separate reservations. In my eyes, she is fully at fault here.

They didn't put her through anything. They didn't make her life hard. She made a mistake and chose to got off, I hate how the news is trying to side with her and put the blame on Amtrak. Amtrak really has nothing to due with it other than she's the one she chose to make a fake bull story about.

Everywhere else where there is assigned or semi-assigned seating on Amtrak, groups sit together and who gets what seat has nothing to do with when the reservations were made. Someone that booked 11 months out may be sitting a row up from someone who bought the ticket that day. This is one reason why I'm never riding the Acela again, when my family and I rode it, the three of us were strung out across two separate cars, the two of us in the same car, were basically at opposite ends. We didn't pay $300 over the Regional, that would have accomplished the same thing transportation wise, to be stuck sitting apart from each other. Amtrak has GOT to update their system!

 

[Anderson]

On the one hand I hold that assigned seating is a recipe for more messes like this if someone can't find seats together (something that is arguably less of an issue on a 2-3 hour flight than 12-48 hours on a train) as well as creating "lost space" issues on longer hauls (this already happens on occasion in sleepers...if there's one roomette available NYP-ALX and another one available ALX-ORL, I cannot buy an NYP-ORL roomette on said train). This is an issue not found on the airline side of things since almost all flights are either nonstop or, in a few limited cases, one-stop.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

If Amtrak would come into the 20th century and let you pick your seat, or at least assign it ahead of time like they already do with sleepers, this would not have happened. Blame is squarely on Amtrak for this :angry2:

How would that have prevented this?

Here, they made separate reservations (the root of all their problems). So, even if one got to pick seats, one would only be able to pick the seats for that one reservation. There is no guarantee, that with any/all future additional reservations (made hours, weeks, months later), that seats immediately next to those already selected, will still be available.

Based on how the article reads, the reservations were made "separate" to save on the fares, but likely made at the same time so it is unlikely tons of seats would have gotten filled in between making the individual reservations.

You lost me. I can't think of a fare pricing situation where making two (or more) separate reservations, at the same time, for the same train, for the same date(s), could result in a lower combined fare.

That's why I was thinking they had to be made at different times.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

This is why I hate clickbait articles...

It's her own fault. She wasn't removed. They didn't escort her out. She is over-exaggerating and trying to make a story out of something that is not and trying to get money out of it.

To me, she is one of the worst kind of passenger to work with.

She chose to get off. She bought separate reservations. In my eyes, she is fully at fault here.

They didn't put her through anything. They didn't make her life hard. She made a mistake and chose to got off, I hate how the news is trying to side with her and put the blame on Amtrak. Amtrak really has nothing to due with it other than she's the one she chose to make a fake bull story about.

Everywhere else where there is assigned or semi-assigned seating on Amtrak, groups sit together and who gets what seat has nothing to do with when the reservations were made. Someone that booked 11 months out may be sitting a row up from someone who bought the ticket that day. This is one reason why I'm never riding the Acela again, when my family and I rode it, the three of us were strung out across two separate cars, the two of us in the same car, were basically at opposite ends. We didn't pay $300 over the Regional, that would have accomplished the same thing transportation wise, to be stuck sitting apart from each other. Amtrak has GOT to update their system!

From my experience, if a LD train is full or sold out, a good conductor will try to hold groups of seats together, for parties traveling together. The only real measure the conductor would have that people are traveling together, is that they appear on the same reservation. If six people have six separate reservation (the max # of separate reservations in this example), there is no practical way for a conductor to know they are a single group (one family).

 

[Eris]

How does one adult and five children even book separately? I'm basically certain you can't do it online, so she had to have called, which would be where she was told, "the crew would be informed they were all traveling together." But why would they have needed separate reservations for price reasons, ever? I can't imagine a mother booking *some* of her kids now, and waiting on others: it is vanishingly unlikely that she did that rather than getting them all booked at the same time.

As a veteran Amtrak passenger who lives close enough to the start of a lot of lines, it confuses me that it didn't occur to her that boarding with six people, especially when several are young and the train leaves at 10pm+, might be most successful if done from Union Station rather than a stop or two up the line. She was probably very tired, cranky (I'd be cranky all the time if I had five kids, I'm pretty sure, but especially at midnight in June when I had to take those kids to Texas); overall, it's not really a story.

 

[zepherdude]

I have slept in the Observation Car when I had a seatmate and never found it full of persons full of wine and beer. I think the crew tried to do what they could and could not do anymore. Mom chose to get off and they were never "thrown" off according to the article.

 

[A Voice]

The irony is the stop where she chose to get off would also have almost certainly produced the necessary empty seats for her and her children could sit together. She accomplished nothing by detraining at that point.

If she objected to the lounge car (the word "lounge" does conjur images of free-flowing booze more than, say, cafe car or observation car) could not provision be made to sit in the dining car temporarily? Again, she needed only wait for the next stop.

Amtrak shouldn't get the blame for this.

 

[TinCan782]

Watched the clip...

"A viewer shared the story..." probably where "kicked off the train" started.

The kids all look to be in the 2-12 category.

From Amtrak:

Children Ages 2-12 Save 50%
Up to two children ages 2-12 are eligible to receive a 50% discount on the lowest available adult rail fare on most Amtrak trains with each fare-paying adult (age 18+). If any additional child per adult will be traveling, reservations must be made for that child as an "Adult" and the full adult fare will be charged.


Suppose, based on this, kids 3, 4 and 5 would be full fare. The 50% discount is based on 2 kids per fare paying adult.

So, she could book the first two kids (along with herself) with the 50% discount. The other three kids would be full fare per the policy stated above.

Discount Limitations
Passengers 12 years of age and younger must travel with an adult passenger who is at least 18 years old.
Children traveling alone are not entitled to a children's discount."

Continuing my supposition, if she made further separate reservations for the remaining 3 kids, they would be traveling alone and not entitled to the discount. Since she already had her reservation (with two kids), she could not use herself again to get a 50% discount. If she was able to pull this off, she would be in violation of Amtrak's rules.

I, as well, do not see a price advantage for booking her entire party in several separate reservations.

I'll also add, the news media is good for this, the train shown is the Pacific Surfliner, not a LD train! Stock footage, keyword "Amtrak", edit into the report.

2 cents!

 

[A Voice]

If Amtrak would come into the 20th century and let you pick your seat, or at least assign it ahead of time like they already do with sleepers, this would not have happened. Blame is squarely on Amtrak for this :angry2:

In addition to reducing potential seating capacity by permitting passengers to select seats (the "lost space" issue Anderson correctly points out), it wouldn't even necessarily solve the problem. There could well be situations where five seats are not available together - unless seats are assigned at boarding or passengers select available seats upon boarding under the direction of train personnel (as its done now). Of course, Amtrak could offer a "forced choice" of a handful ot available seats for the passenger to select in advance, but allowing people to choose any seat they want is completely unworkable aboard Amtrak.

 

[MattW]

If Amtrak would come into the 20th century and let you pick your seat, or at least assign it ahead of time like they already do with sleepers, this would not have happened. Blame is squarely on Amtrak for this :angry2:

In addition to reducing potential seating capacity by permitting passengers to select seats (the "lost space" issue Anderson correctly points out), it wouldn't even necessarily solve the problem. There could well be situations where five seats are not available together - unless seats are assigned at boarding or passengers select available seats upon boarding under the direction of train personnel (as its done now). Of course, Amtrak could offer a "forced choice" of a handful ot available seats for the passenger to select in advance, but allowing people to choose any seat they want is completely unworkable aboard Amtrak.

Then how do the other railroads in the world do it?

 

[RSG]

I'd be a bit more sympathetic towards her situation, but from the video clip, this wasn't her first Amtrak rodeo; she mentions traveling to Texas previously. Therefore she had to known what to have expected to a certain degree. As mentioned, she could have reduced her drama trauma by booking to get on at a major stop. It's not much different than getting on a commuter airline flight and complaining because the seats aren't together on the connection that was booked, either at the start or at someplace like LAX.

Her situation would have been further ameliorated if she had just booked a Family Bedroom, though I'm guessing she probably booked after they were already sold out on the day/s she was looking to travel.

 

[mycalpal]

Well, I just finished a cross-country trip on Amtrak today. While I was in a Sleeper car on both the Empire Builder and the Lake Shore Limited, I spent plenty of time with coach passengers and the seating was discussed. I have also taken many shorter trips on Long distance trains both on the east and west coast over the years and I don't think the airline system (which is changing by the way) would work on Amtrak. Some airlines, such as Southwest don't assign any seating but board by airline status and customer check in, first come, first served. Even on airlines that let you select a seat, many charge extra for a large portion of seats and many also keep a fair number of seats "under airport control" until the day of departure. Airlines also oversell seats to a far greater degree than Amtrak, so we are not really comparing apples to apples.

I don't fault Amtrak here. Traveling with even two children can be tricky and I find Amtrak very family friendly. When I have taken the Coast Starlight on the west coast, coach seating is assigned upon boarding, in most cases on a first come, first served basis, with some pre-boarding. I sat in coach once on the Sunset Limited myself as the sleepers were sold out 9 months in advance and I could not change the date as it was part of an around the country trip. I took it upon myself to arrive at the station early and see if there were other single travelers and found someone nice to sit with. Planning and a bit of initiative goes a long way.

 

[the_traveler]

I don't know the exact specifics of the case, but I am supposing that they boarded the SL in Pomona ar 10:41 pm or Ontario at 10:54 pm. Do you think it's fair that the Conductor or CA should wake up numerous sleeping passengers who boarded at LAX at 10 pm just so this group of 5 can occupy 2 rows together? :huh: Remember that they did not reserve at the same time (thus they did not expect 5 people together - and especially not a family of 5) and 5 people together require 2 rows (since it is only 4 seats across).

I have boarded the CZ in SLC at 3:30 am and the SWC in NDL at 2 am and was given an aisle seat. I did not get to move until morning. And I was not "thrown off the train" either!

 

[TinCan782]

I don't know the exact specifics of the case, but I am supposing that they boarded the SL in Pomona ar 10:41 pm or Ontario at 10:54 pm. Do you think it's fair that the Conductor or CA should wake up numerous sleeping passengers who boarded at LAX at 10 pm just so this group of 5 can occupy 2 rows together? :huh: Remember that they did not reserve at the same time (thus they did not expect 5 people together - and especially not a family of 5) and 5 people together require 2 rows (since it is only 4 seats across).

I have boarded the CZ in SLC at 3:30 am and the SWC in NDL at 2 am and was given an aisle seat. I did not get to move until morning. And I was not "thrown off the train" either!

FWIW...per the video in the link, they boarded at Pomona.