New route in Northern California

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jis

jis

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railiner said:
Is that a new line,, or just more service on the CS line?
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Local service on the CS line at more frequency than one per day and not running at Oh Dark Thirty.

Here is the North Valley Rail website with a map showing the proposal and how it relates to other services in the area:

https://northvalleyrail.org/
 
Am I reading correctly that this train won’t extend into SAC station but terminate just outside of Sacramento? What kind of hare brained half project is this? It seems like you’re missing one of the biggest connection points!
 
It is planned to connect with the "Valley Rail" extension of the Altamont Corridor Express, which will itself have stops at Natomas, Old North Sacramento, Midtown, and City College. These are all on a line somewhat to the east of the existing Amtrak station, so you'd need to use the Sacramento light rail to make a connection.
 
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DavidSh said:
It is planned to connect with the "Valley Rail" extension of the Altamont Corridor Express, which will itself have stops at Natomas, Old North Sacramento, Midtown, and City College. These are all on a line somewhat to the east of the existing Amtrak station, so you'd need to use the Sacramento light rail to make a connection.
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Ah, they will be staying on the former WP all the way through, not getting back on the former SP north of Stockton.

In terms of rail access, they could get back on the old SP on the north side Stockton, serve the Amtrak (SP) station, then get on the former WP at Hagen just past the station like the Starlight does.

However, if they stayed on the former SP, they'd have to make a backup move to serve the Sacramento station. The junction of the Valley line and the Roseville Sub at Elvas is east of the station, too. SP's last train that went through Sacramento north-south was the West Coast when it ran through LA-Portland. It was cut back to LA-Sacramento in the late 1940's IIRC. But I think it used the West Valley line, too, which meant it could just pull straight though and turn north at Davis.

So the routing straight through on the old WP makes sense. It would be faster, with less slow movement through junctions at Elvas and Hagen, and no slow backup move to reach Amtrak's former SP station.
 
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DavidSh said:
It is planned to connect with the "Valley Rail" extension of the Altamont Corridor Express, which will itself have stops at Natomas, Old North Sacramento, Midtown, and City College. These are all on a line somewhat to the east of the existing Amtrak station, so you'd need to use the Sacramento light rail to make a connection.
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Did not know about the Valley Rail extension. That will be a game-changer for the region if they can keep 7 round-trips/day. ACE is useless right now unless you're commuting weekdays between Stockton and San Jose.

North Valley rail will also be very interesting, although it will effectively be commuter rail to start.

Surprised that there isn't a stop at the Sacramento Valley Station but makes sense if they're serving commuters first, then building regional rail up.
 
allanorn said:
Did not know about the Valley Rail extension. That will be a game-changer for the region if they can keep 7 round-trips/day. ACE is useless right now unless you're commuting weekdays between Stockton and San Jose.

North Valley rail will also be very interesting, although it will effectively be commuter rail to start.

Surprised that there isn't a stop at the Sacramento Valley Station but makes sense if they're serving commuters first, then building regional rail up.
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Due to existing track configurations, serving the former SP station involves slow back up moves, probably unacceptable for a commuter/regional operation. In that view, the straight north-south shot on the former WP makes sense. The only downside for the local authority is lack of easy transfer to Capitol Corridor services. Connections to the Starlight and Zephyr would be of minor concern to them.
 
zephyr17 said:
Due to existing track configurations, serving the former SP station involves slow back up moves, probably unacceptable for a commuter/regional operation. In that view, the straight north-south shot on the former WP makes sense. The only downside for the local authority is lack of easy transfer to Capitol Corridor services. Connections to the Starlight and Zephyr would be of minor concern to them.
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The Valley Rail page is suggesting light rail connections at City College, Mid-Town, and Old North Sacramento. If the Mid-Town stop is on the Yellow Line (light rail) that'll go directly to the SP station. Not ideal, but better than some possible alternatives.

City College is on the Blue Line so would involve a transfer to the Gold Line downtown.
 
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zephyr17 said:
Ah, they will be staying on the former WP all the way through, not getting back on the former SP north of Stockton.

In terms of rail access, they could get back on the old SP on the north side Stockton, serve the Amtrak (SP) station, then get on the former WP at Hagen just past the station like the Starlight does.

However, if they stayed on the former SP, they'd have to make a backup move to serve the Sacramento station. The junction of the Valley line and the Roseville Sub at Elvas is east of the station, too. SP's last train that went through Sacramento north-south was the West Coast when it ran through LA-Portland. It was cut back to LA-Sacramento in the late 1940's IIRC. But I think it used the West Valley line, too, which meant it could just pull straight though and turn north at Davis.

So the routing straight through on the old WP makes sense. It would be faster, with less slow movement through junctions at Elvas and Hagen, and no slow backup move to reach Amtrak's former SP station.
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The West Coast went through various routings. My dad left me his October 1944 Official Guide, and it shows the West Coast running via the West Side and a companion coach-only local running between Gerber and Sacramento via the East Side. By 1955, the West Coast was gone north of Sacramento, but the East Side local continued (with a connection at Gerber from the rescheduled Klamath, with a 7½ hour connection at Gerber northbound. By 1958 the East Side local was gone.
 
The sheer scope of that commuter network beginning to grow in northern CA is beginning to get impressive, even if service is a bit thin.

Of course, given the price point here I can only wonder what could have been accomplished if they hadn't been quite so obsessed with the HSR goal for the last...15 years?
 
Anderson said:
The sheer scope of that commuter network beginning to grow in northern CA is beginning to get impressive, even if service is a bit thin.

Of course, given the price point here I can only wonder what could have been accomplished if they hadn't been quite so obsessed with the HSR goal for the last...15 years?
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To some degree the two systems will complement each other and the commuter/regional end will serve as feeders to the HSR once it happens.
 
I also don't understand why the new North Valley RR train will terminate in Natomas, just outside of Sacramento. Couldn't it terminate at the SAC Amtrak station? They plan on a shuttle bus between Natomas and the Sacramento airport. How about a shuttle bus between Natomas and the Amtrak station?

I don't think it could connect with the Coast Starlight as the Starlight gets into the Bay Area very late. When I took the Starlight to Portland, a few weeks ago, it arrived in Martinez at 11:30 PM. Not unusual for the Starlight.

I direct connection with the Calif. Zephyr would be important. In the old days, the old Sacramento Northern train (also Chico to Sac to the Bay Area) made the connection with the Western Pacific in Sacramento. An important feed for the WP. The Western Pacific also purchased the Sacramento Northern in 1928.

https://is.gd/r7l8X9
As GAT mentioned, I too would like to see the North Valley train continue on from Chico to Redding. Better yet, to Dunsmuir with access to recreational areas in the Mt. Shasta area. But yes, they are in different counties so it would be unlikely.
 
Northwestern said:
I direct connection with the Calif. Zephyr would be important. In the old days, the old Sacramento Northern train (also Chico to Sac to the Bay Area) made the connection with the Western Pacific in Sacramento. An important feed for the WP. The Western Pacific also purchased the Sacramento Northern in 1928.
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Well, the WP station was on the WP mainline at J Street. That is the station the original CZ, as well a other WP trains like the Exposition Flyer, called.

It is now an Old Spaghetti Factory restaurant.

It was almost a mile and a half east of the SP station used by Amtrak. WP and SN trains never served the SP station. Sacramento did not have a Union Station. Any service into the Amtrak former SP station from the former WP will involve significant back up moves as I previously pointed out.

The map indicates the ACE extension to Sacramento will use the former WP, not the former SP as the San Joaquins do, probably so both the North Valley and ACE trains can run through/make easy connections.

I don't understand why connections to downtown Sacramento are not called out specifically in the propsal, even if the Amtrak station is not, when the shuttle to SMF is. Perhaps because the ACE extension is further along in planning and might be expected to be in place by the time this service starts? In any case, they should have said more on that.
 
Northwestern said:
I also don't understand why the new North Valley RR train will terminate in Natomas, just outside of Sacramento. Couldn't it terminate at the SAC Amtrak station? They plan on a shuttle bus between Natomas and the Sacramento airport. How about a shuttle bus between Natomas and the Amtrak station?
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because its not terminating there but though running south. This is the current service plan for the late 2020s FtHp4ToWcAAYvMq.jpg
Northwestern said:
As GAT mentioned, I too would like to see the North Valley train continue on from Chico to Redding. Better yet, to Dunsmuir with access to recreational areas in the Mt. Shasta area. But yes, they are in different counties so it would be unlikely.
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A Oroville to Chico connection and then continuing to Redding should happen. Getting north of redding is doubfull unless we see another train to Oregon
 
GDRRiley said:
because its not terminating there but though running south. This is the current service plan for the late 2020s

A Oroville to Chico connection and then continuing to Redding should happen. Getting north of redding is doubfull unless we see another train to Oregon
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For a brief period, the Redding Thruway bus was extended to Medford. I don't think that was well-publicized and it had to run at marginal hours. What would make sense in the short run is an overnight bus between Eugene and Sacramento via I-5, linking the Cascades with the growing California network. The hours at Ashland, Medford, Grants Pass, and Roseburg would still be poor, but a vast number of city pairs would fall into place. Flix just launched such a schedule as PDX<>SAC, but of course they do not connect with Amtrak.
 
Willbridge said:
For a brief period, the Redding Thruway bus was extended to Medford. I don't think that was well-publicized and it had to run at marginal hours. What would make sense in the short run is an overnight bus between Eugene and Sacramento via I-5, linking the Cascades with the growing California network. The hours at Ashland, Medford, Grants Pass, and Roseburg would still be poor, but a vast number of city pairs would fall into place. Flix just launched such a schedule as PDX<>SAC, but of course they do not connect with Amtrak.
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a bus connection would be good but its going to be hard to run a good one without reaching Redding, Sac-Eugene is pushing 7.5 hours without stops. Chico shaves an hour off that. North bound assuming the coast starlight is on time its a decent sleeper train between Sac and Eugene while south bound its lackluster.
I'd like to see the regions properly linked via more rail service.

Some interesting reading on trying to get Sac- Eugene faster
Passenger Rail for the Shasta Route: Table of Contents
 
GDRRiley said:
a bus connection would be good but its going to be hard to run a good one without reaching Redding, Sac-Eugene is pushing 7.5 hours without stops. Chico shaves an hour off that. North bound assuming the coast starlight is on time its a decent sleeper train between Sac and Eugene while south bound its lackluster.
I'd like to see the regions properly linked via more rail service.

Some interesting reading on trying to get Sac- Eugene faster
Passenger Rail for the Shasta Route: Table of Contents
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Thanx for the link. I've read this before and I sure wish he had been able to complete it.

Flix is scheduling EUG>SAC overnight in 9:35, with intermediate stops in Roseburg (20 minutes), Redding, Oroville, and Marysville. The omission of Medford appears to from their strategy of having a long stretch without the sleep-depriving intermediate stops. Greyhound takes 10:40 with eight intermediate stops.

I've attached a draft updated into 2022. It would use the current Thruway connection for access to the East side of the Sacramento Valley. This might be a weekend-only service (or maybe Amtrak could get another coach on the Starlight!).
 

Attachments

  • 2022 EUG--SAC draft.pdf
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Willbridge said:
Thanx for the link. I've read this before and I sure wish he had been able to complete it.

Flix is scheduling EUG>SAC overnight in 9:35, with intermediate stops in Roseburg (20 minutes), Redding, Oroville, and Marysville. The omission of Medford appears to from their strategy of having a long stretch without the sleep-depriving intermediate stops. Greyhound takes 10:40 with eight intermediate stops.

I've attached a draft updated into 2022. It would use the current Thruway connection for access to the East side of the Sacramento Valley. This might be a weekend-only service (or maybe Amtrak could get another coach on the Starlight!).
Click to expand...
Nice timetable but I think Spokane and Vancouver are flipped

Another coach on starlight would be great but we also need a dedicated Sac-LA sleeper train
 
GDRRiley said:
Another coach on starlight would be great but we also need a dedicated Sac-LA sleeper train
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It could leave LAX around 9 PM, be at Emeryville by 8:30 AM, and Sacramento around 10:30 AM.
Ideally the train divides at San Jose and a SFO section uses the Caltrain tracks to run into SFO proper while the rest of the train continues via EMY.
I know, pipe dream.
 
AmtrakMaineiac said:
It could leave LAX around 9 PM, be at Emeryville by 8:30 AM, and Sacramento around 10:30 AM.
Ideally the train divides at San Jose and a SFO section uses the Caltrain tracks to run into SFO proper while the rest of the train continues via EMY.
I know, pipe dream.
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splitting trains on such a short run is a bit of a pain and then you have a 2 hour dead head back to Oakland OMF unless you setup some facilities in SF which seems unlikely for 1RT daily
 

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