New Viewliner II's

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So who gets the baggage and who gets the baggage/dorms? It was suggested in an earlier post that the Westerns get the baggage dorms and the Eastern get just baggage, but I don't think that would work. The only Superliner to single conversion, iirc, is the Trans-dorm. I doubt you would see a baggage dorm attached to a Trans-dorm. I'm thinking the straight baggage will go on the Westerns and the baggage dorms go on the single level train sets.
 
So who gets the baggage and who gets the baggage/dorms? It was suggested in an earlier post that the Westerns get the baggage dorms and the Eastern get just baggage, but I don't think that would work. The only Superliner to single conversion, iirc, is the Trans-dorm. I doubt you would see a baggage dorm attached to a Trans-dorm. I'm thinking the straight baggage will go on the Westerns and the baggage dorms go on the single level train sets.
That's been the assumption, more or less, especially since the Viewliner trains are frequently more pressed for sleeper space. That the number of bag-dorms lines up with the number of diners hints at this as well. Basically, it'd be baggage cars to the bilevel trains and corridor trains with checked baggage space (and no coach-bag available, as I believe there are a few of in the Midwest), and bag-dorms to single-level sleeper trains.
 
Basically, it'd be baggage cars to the bilevel trains and corridor trains with checked baggage space (and no coach-bag available, as I believe there are a few of in the Midwest), and bag-dorms to single-level sleeper trains.
There are no Midwest corridor trains that use baggage cars. The only train in the Midwest to offer checked baggage is the Hiawatha, and it uses an NPCU/cabbage car. On the west coast, each train that offers checked baggage already has a baggage car (coach/baggage in California, Talgo baggage in the Northwest).

So, the regular baggage cars would only go to LD trains, plus 66/67.
 
There are no Midwest corridor trains that use baggage cars. The only train in the Midwest to offer checked baggage is the Hiawatha, and it uses an NPCU/cabbage car. On the west coast, each train that offers checked baggage already has a baggage car (coach/baggage in California, Talgo baggage in the Northwest).

So, the regular baggage cars would only go to LD trains, plus 66/67.
The Carolinian has a baggage car. The Piedmont's offer checked baggage service, but they have the refurbished combined bag/vending/bike rack cars.

This was discussed recently in another thread on the Viewliner II order, but once Amtrak has 125 mph capable baggage cars, they may add checked baggage to another daily Regional or two to provide more checked baggage and bike options on the NEC. The Pennsylvanian would be a candidate for a baggage & bike rack car, especially if it has run-through sleepers to the Capitol Limited. If the Customs facility open in Montreal, the Adirondack would be a logical candidate for a baggage car for the NYP-MTR passengers.

But as was brought up earlier in this thread, the capacity of a full length baggage car would likely be overkill for any eastern day trains. A 1/2 coach, 1/2 baggage car, maybe with a place for passenger to hang their own bikes, could be a better approach.
 
First off, if the New York side of LSL consist was to be standardized at 3 sleepers, diner, lounge, 4 coaches, that would be a nice consist to rotate around/see what you could do with. I would be worried about how much baggage that little bag-dorm could carry, but heck just have em stack it to the ceiling, if possible. I don't think the Cap/Pennsy cars will have an impact greatly on LSL ridership. Most all of the NY - Cleveland-or-points-west would be handled by the LSL, because people are not going to want to leave 5 hours earlier to get there 1 hour earlier. Traffic at least out of New York should not be impacted. Philly residents already might make this connection just without through-cars, and 50% probably train on the Cap (or LSL) and then Regional or Acela to Philly, so I mean, you might have a SLIGHT ridership drop-off, with the frequently-selling-out LSL, other people will fill their spots.

The Crescent should become 3 sleepers, and if they can do some switching in Atlanta, you could even get 4 out of it without needing more equipment. That would be awesome, but for the sake of standardization, keep it at 3 sleepers, diner, lounge, 4 coaches.

I really wish that every LD train could have a bag-dorm. In the west, they have already proven that they are willing to sell space in the transdorms, and this would be yet more revenue. What I think would be best would actually be to send a baggage AND a bag-dorm on the EB to see how it works. With the increased consist the train could fill (wishful thinking assuming moderate availability of equipment), some transdorm space would still have to be for crew even , but you could get much more revenue space out of a transdorm, and host all of the baggage that train must carry. You can be sure those baggage cars were full to the brim this summer, after we have heard some of those crazy 20-minute baggage unloading and loading stories from Williston.
 
There was some chatter early on when Amtrak first started talking about new Viewliners that all 75 baggage cars were to be of the Bag/Dorm type and converting the existing Superliner Trans/Dorms to full revenue sleepers. Never heard if "full revenue sleepers" meant simply selling all of the existing rooms within the cars or it they were actually going to rework the cars and add Bedrooms and a family room to make them identical to the "regular" Superliner sleepers.

That "chatter" went away when the decision was made not to make all baggage cars in the Bag/Dorm model, but instead to make some of them Full Baggage cars. I never heard why that decision was made, but I assume that it was simply a costs thing. Putting in 8 shelving units to hold bags is considerably cheaper than putting in a shower, toilets, several roomettes, water tanks, waste tanks, AC & heat, etc. I've no doubt cutting back on the number of Bag/Dorms dropped the overall production price tag by a bit.

So baring Amtrak exercising all options on the order, and making a bunch of them Bag/Dorms, except perhaps in an emergency situation one won't see Bag/Dorms in the Superliner consists. They'll all stay on the east coast where they are desperately needed to get the crews out the normal Viewliner revenue space.
 
I see lots of talk about replacing the Amfleet II's and while I won't deny Amtrak needs more long distance coaches, be they Amfleets or of a Viewliner car frame, Amtrak needs to worry about the Amfleet I's first before it worries about replacing the II's. The I's are older and closer to the end of their useful life than are the II's.
The Amfleet IIs have more mileage then the older Amfleet Is. So I could see why they are replacing them first.
An Amfleet, whether I or II, can survive a nuclear attack it seems. Seriously, they have been described as tanks, so I would press Amtrak on Superliner III's, more Viewliner II's, get started on Acela II, and also on diesel locomotives to replace Genesis. If need be, the Amfleet cars can likely serve another generation if not at least a decade. Put them through another overhaul and they will safely carry more passengers. Because to attend to the greatest needs while re-establishing a railcar business, and nurturing it instead of atrophying it the way it happened to Budd and Pullman, Amfleet replacements can and should be on the list, just at the bottom. There are plenty of them and they work. The Nippon bilevels should release enough cars. Maybe a starter order for Viewliner II coaches and lounges.
 
In regard to the orphaned Cardinal, freeing up the full existing sleeper with a bag/dorm should increase the revenue space considerably. Getting a full diner back on that train also increases its attractiveness over the current food service offering. Out of curiosity, though, is there any chatter to placing a second sleeper for a total of two on top of the bag/dorm and diner?
 
In regard to the orphaned Cardinal, freeing up the full existing sleeper with a bag/dorm should increase the revenue space considerably. Getting a full diner back on that train also increases its attractiveness over the current food service offering. Out of curiosity, though, is there any chatter to placing a second sleeper for a total of two on top of the bag/dorm and diner?
Yeah, the Cardinal is really the underdog of the LD trains, along with the SL. This train may take a bir circle but it atually has quite a bit of potential in West Virginia and the Ohio River Valley, so it should really get better. In those places there is no parallel Interstate, no parallel bus service, and very poor airline service.
 
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In regard to the orphaned Cardinal, freeing up the full existing sleeper with a bag/dorm should increase the revenue space considerably. Getting a full diner back on that train also increases its attractiveness over the current food service offering. Out of curiosity, though, is there any chatter to placing a second sleeper for a total of two on top of the bag/dorm and diner?
Yeah, the Cardinal is really the underdog of the LD trains, along with the SL. This train may take a bir circle but it atually has quite a bit of potential in West Virginia and the Ohio River Valley, so it should really get better. In those places there is no parallel Interstate, no parallel bus service, and very poor airline service.
Well, the problem is that the Cardinal is screwed by the map. It's always had a bunch of issues as a train that come from both being once-a-day (at best) and being an unwieldy merger of two pre-existing routes. The travel times aren't great (and are hard to improve).

I had a long chat with someone about this train, and apparently Virginia has looked at everything under the sun to try and improve it. Basically, the problem is that it has four main potential markets:

1) Western VA to the NEC (115-379 mi)

2) Cincinatti to the NEC (603-828 mi)

3) Cincinatti to Chicago (319 mi; 9:42 WB, 8:32 EB)

4) Indianapolis to Chicago (196 mi; 5:05 WB, 5:05 EB)

Basically, it can't handle CIN-CHI during daylight without screwing up connections in Chicago, even with substantial track improvements. It can't handle CHI-IND at decent hours without improvements or cutting those connections. CIN-NEC is complicated by the Chicago issues. That all leaves Virginia as a major, well-timed market candidate, and /that/ is a mess because the train has to cover the New River Gorge, which makes the train unable to cover Lynchburg or Roanoke.

In short, it's a "no good answer" train.
 
Regarding priority order for new rolling stock, the recent statements and reports by Amtrak have for the most part sorted the replacement into separate queues, one for "single-level" and one for "bilevel".

Within the "single-level" category, Amtrak is quite clear: it wants to get rid of all single-level Heritage cars first (except the Great Dome, their business and geometry cars, and a few other oddities). In the first version of the fleet strategy report, it proposed replacing the Amfleet Is next and the Amfleet IIs third; in the most recent version, it proposed replacing the Amfleet IIs second and the Amfleet Is third.

Within the "bilevel" category, the Pacific Parlour Cars and Superliner Is are intended to be replaced first (with the PPCs coming as part of the first Superliner I replacement order.)

However, Amtrak has made no official statement as to how the priorities of these two queues interlace: whether replacement of Amfleet IIs is a higher priority than replacement of Superliner Is, for instance. This is perhaps slightly odd.

I would agree with everyone else that replacing the Superliner Is should be a higher priority than replacing any of the Amfleets. (Some of the Superliner Is are starting to be in really bad shape.) However, perhaps expanding the single-level fleet should be a higher priority than replacing the Superliner Is. But whichever is the case, Amtrak has made no clear statement of intent.
 
Frankly, I think Amtrak should handle replacing the Amfleets (and Horizons) together, rather than separating the orders out by type. As far as I can tell, the only differences between the LD coaches and SD coaches is seat spacing/type, and perhaps a row of seats and a set of baggage racks. The cars are functionally the same in many regards, so ordering 200 coaches at a time to be split between LD service and corridor service in various fashions would give Amtrak a bit more flexibility on several fronts (including experimenting with longer trains on some routes to see if they can fill the extra seats, for example).

Moreover, as I hinted at earlier in the thread, with Amtrak apparently retaining better control over the IP, it should be possible for them to toss out regular enough orders on each front to be able to supplement all of the single-level fleet elements on an as-needed basis. Since the Viewliner order contained a set of 25-car batches (diners, sleepers, and bag-dorms), and looking at some of the equipment batches from before Amtrak, 20-25 car orders of a single type seem viable as long as they're thrown in with a larger order. In this vein, I also wonder if Amtrak might not be able to negotiate option extensions if CAF keeps getting the single-level orders, allowing even smaller car numbers to be ordered on extended options from existing contracts.

The Superliners are a bit more of a mess because there simply aren't as many of them in existence. On the Superliners, I think you have somewhere around 33 LD sets plus scattered corridor sets and spares, while from what I understand you have 27 sets on the NEC that handle most of those services in a pool (with the cafe/BC end of the train removed for services like the Keystones, and added on for the Regionals), plus LD equipment and other single-level cars on non-standard trains (the Carolinian is like this, I think, as is the Adirondack). Basically, it's a far larger pool to handle replacements of, and even the coach trains are bigger (you're looking at 5-7 "basic" coaches in the corridor pools these days, versus 3-5 coaches on the Western bilevels).
 
In regard to the orphaned Cardinal, freeing up the full existing sleeper with a bag/dorm should increase the revenue space considerably. Getting a full diner back on that train also increases its attractiveness over the current food service offering. Out of curiosity, though, is there any chatter to placing a second sleeper for a total of two on top of the bag/dorm and diner?
Yeah, the Cardinal is really the underdog of the LD trains, along with the SL. This train may take a bir circle but it atually has quite a bit of potential in West Virginia and the Ohio River Valley, so it should really get better. In those places there is no parallel Interstate, no parallel bus service, and very poor airline service.
Well, the problem is that the Cardinal is screwed by the map. It's always had a bunch of issues as a train that come from both being once-a-day (at best) and being an unwieldy merger of two pre-existing routes. The travel times aren't great (and are hard to improve).

I had a long chat with someone about this train, and apparently Virginia has looked at everything under the sun to try and improve it. Basically, the problem is that it has four main potential markets:

1) Western VA to the NEC (115-379 mi)

2) Cincinatti to the NEC (603-828 mi)

3) Cincinatti to Chicago (319 mi; 9:42 WB, 8:32 EB)

4) Indianapolis to Chicago (196 mi; 5:05 WB, 5:05 EB)

Basically, it can't handle CIN-CHI during daylight without screwing up connections in Chicago, even with substantial track improvements. It can't handle CHI-IND at decent hours without improvements or cutting those connections. CIN-NEC is complicated by the Chicago issues. That all leaves Virginia as a major, well-timed market candidate, and /that/ is a mess because the train has to cover the New River Gorge, which makes the train unable to cover Lynchburg or Roanoke.

In short, it's a "no good answer" train.
The former N&W Route from Cincinnati to Norfolk also goes through the New River Gorge and serves Roanoke and Lynchburg. That route has better scenery than the former C&O route. N&W moved former Wabash Dome Coaches from the midwest to that route because of the scenery back in the late 60s immediately before Amtrak.
 
All these Viewliners being ordered are sure going to make for some funny looking consists.

A P42 is roughly the height of a Viewliner.

An F59PHI is roughly the height of a Superliner.

The heritage baggage cars are shorter than either locomotive.

So, in the West, it may actually improve the look - P42-VLII-SL, though I think that the best looking consist, though perhaps not practical, would be a pair of F59PHIs with only Superliners behind it. At least the Viewliner Baggage car will be less of a height difference than the Heritage.

In the East, it'll all look good - Same height P42, Viewliner Baggage Dorm, Viewliner Sleeper, Viewliner Diner [then the really out of place cafe/lounge], then the Amfleets. Would still prefer a homogenous looking trainset, though.

The corridors will be the funniest looking. P42, Viewliner Baggage, amfleets OR heritage coaches - though it won't look any weirder than the current Silvers and regionals.

Why can't someone just design homogenous looking trainsets? They look so piecemail now, and it's about to get worse.
 
All these Viewliners being ordered are sure going to make for some funny looking consists....

Why can't someone just design homogenous looking trainsets? They look so piecemail now, and it's about to get worse.
Oh contrare! On western trains, where Superliners rule, they will simply replace the Heritage baggage cars. A Viewliner is a tad higher than its Heritage counterpart, so the height appearance will actually improve a little. Same for Eastern trains for the same reason, and for one more: instead of three types of railcars there will now be only two: Amfleets and Viewliners.

Most of us have mused about Amtrak excercising the extra 70 (hopefully more) Viewliners from CAF, but i have to hold my horses: the Viewliners are still very much a prototype project that sat on the backburner since 1987, nearly a quarter century ago. Amtrak is going to want to see how the first of these production units work before getting to another order. Just hope that if all is well they decide right away, and not wait for the cows to come home.
 
I would agree with everyone else that replacing the Superliner Is should be a higher priority than replacing any of the Amfleets. (Some of the Superliner Is are starting to be in really bad shape.) However, perhaps expanding the single-level fleet should be a higher priority than replacing the Superliner Is. But whichever is the case, Amtrak has made no clear statement of intent.
Actually, Mr. Boardman has made it quite clear that he doesn't intend to do anything more for the long distance trains without a more clear directive from Congress. Frankly I rather doubt he'll ever get such a directive from Congress, seeing as how they're rarely clear about anything.

But it does mean that for now, his focus is on short haul equipment, which would mean replacing the Amfleet I's and maybe just maybe throw in some replacements for the AMF II's since they are essentially the same design even if they are long distance cars.
 
Moreover, as I hinted at earlier in the thread, with Amtrak apparently retaining better control over the IP, it should be possible for them to toss out regular enough orders on each front to be able to supplement all of the single-level fleet elements on an as-needed basis. Since the Viewliner order contained a set of 25-car batches (diners, sleepers, and bag-dorms), and looking at some of the equipment batches from before Amtrak, 20-25 car orders of a single type seem viable as long as they're thrown in with a larger order. In this vein, I also wonder if Amtrak might not be able to negotiate option extensions if CAF keeps getting the single-level orders, allowing even smaller car numbers to be ordered on extended options from existing contracts.
Keep in mind that working with the Viewliners is a horse of a different color when it comes to things as compared to say the Superliners of other older cars. The Viewliners are modular cars. CAF is really just building the shell of the car largely the same every time, save an extra door or two for baggage cars and such. But after that, the base of the car is the same. They just slide in what ever they need to make the car what Amtrak wants.

So technically, but for the fact that I'm sure the modules are already in production, if Amtrak wanted to do so, they could call up CAF tomorrow and cancel 10 of the sleepers and tell them to slid in chairs & luggage modules instead.

This provides great flexibility in what actually rolls off the production line as compared to years ago where things were built in place and to order.
 
That would be assuming that there is no penalty for cancelling the modules. There is most presumably a lead time and a cost for changes clause, but you are right - not withstanding any thing not already ordered or in work - changes to the configuration of future orders is much simpler.
 
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I would agree with everyone else that replacing the Superliner Is should be a higher priority than replacing any of the Amfleets. (Some of the Superliner Is are starting to be in really bad shape.) However, perhaps expanding the single-level fleet should be a higher priority than replacing the Superliner Is. But whichever is the case, Amtrak has made no clear statement of intent.
Actually, Mr. Boardman has made it quite clear that he doesn't intend to do anything more for the long distance trains without a more clear directive from Congress.
This is a misinterpretation of the remarks by the same man who rejected the idea of cancelling the long distance trains, describing them as national treasures like the national parks.

What I would expect is that he would attempt, roughly speaking, maintenance of the status quo. This means he is *not* going to allow the trains to be cancelled due to lack of servicable equipment.

It also means no *new* long-distance routes, of course. (Though Amtrak is quite clear that 3-a-week is bad, so they may still make efforts to go daily on those trains.) I would also not expect added bilevel sleeper cars (there doesn't seem to be a shortage -- prices for a roomette from Chicago-LA are routinely less than prices for a roomette from NY-Chicago, which says soimething), and there seem to be enough diners and Sightseer Lounges to go around.

However, an order of long-distance bilevel coaches, to replace wrecks and allow for increased demand, should be considered likely. The difference between a long-distance coach and a corridor coach is just the seating, anyway.

Frankly I rather doubt he'll ever get such a directive from Congress, seeing as how they're rarely clear about anything.
Indeed.

But it does mean that for now, his focus is on short haul equipment, which would mean replacing the Amfleet I's and maybe just maybe throw in some replacements for the AMF II's since they are essentially the same design even if they are long distance cars.
First, Amtrak's fleet strategy is quite clear: the Amfleet IIs get replaced first, because they have more mileage (so the trucks and other mechanical parts are wearing out quicker). Of course, it's perfectly possible that we'll see the Amfleet Is reconfigured for long-distance use and the "Amfleet II replacements" put into corridor use!

Second, it has been explained to me that the government definition of long-distance (for purposes of requiring state funding or not) is not the same as Amtrak's internal definition of long-distance for purposes of staffing and equipment allocation. The Pennsylvanian, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, etc., use "long-distance" configuration coaches. Amtrak is absolutely in the business of having long-distance coaches for state-supported trains, and I would expect Amtrak to order new long-distance coaches for that purpose if nothing else.
 
Actually, Mr. Boardman has made it quite clear that he doesn't intend to do anything more for the long distance trains without a more clear directive from Congress.
This is a misinterpretation of the remarks by the same man who rejected the idea of cancelling the long distance trains, describing them as national treasures like the national parks.
No, Mr. Boardman was quite specific when just after placing the order for the Viewliner II's he essentially said that he would not place any more orders for long distance equipment until Congress gives him clear direction. I don't recall the exact words, but again the meaning of his statements were quite clear and not at all ambiguous.

But it does mean that for now, his focus is on short haul equipment, which would mean replacing the Amfleet I's and maybe just maybe throw in some replacements for the AMF II's since they are essentially the same design even if they are long distance cars.
First, Amtrak's fleet strategy is quite clear: the Amfleet IIs get replaced first, because they have more mileage (so the trucks and other mechanical parts are wearing out quicker). Of course, it's perfectly possible that we'll see the Amfleet Is reconfigured for long-distance use and the "Amfleet II replacements" put into corridor use!
The Amfleet I's rack up nearly the same amount of mileage as an AMF II does. The Palmetto is probably one of the longest runs in one day of any AMF II at 829. Most long distance trains run longer distances, but over the course of two days, so the car isn't getting more miles per day than a car on the Palmetto.

An AMF I running on the NEC can rack up 914 miles in one day by running a round trip WAS to Boston. And the AMF I's get turned much faster than any AMF II does.

Now I'll grant that not every AMF I probably racks up that many miles per day, but still with more years on their wheels, other than the mothballed cars, they should have just as many miles on them as the AMF II's do.

Second, it has been explained to me that the government definition of long-distance (for purposes of requiring state funding or not) is not the same as Amtrak's internal definition of long-distance for purposes of staffing and equipment allocation. The Pennsylvanian, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, etc., use "long-distance" configuration coaches. Amtrak is absolutely in the business of having long-distance coaches for state-supported trains, and I would expect Amtrak to order new long-distance coaches for that purpose if nothing else.
Actually the AMF II's were never supposed to be the "overnight" coaches, they were designed for the Leaf, Adirondack, Pennsy, Carolinian type runs. The money ran out before the overnight coaches got built, so the AMF II's became the overnight coaches by default for lack of anything better.
 
Re: Boardman waiting for Congress, me thinks that Hurricane Sandy's aftermath will put some zing in their step. Long Distance trains are being overwhelmed all over the country, and Amtrak has a job to make this known as a case for an expedited fleet renewal.
 
Re: Boardman waiting for Congress, me thinks that Hurricane Sandy's aftermath will put some zing in their step. Long Distance trains are being overwhelmed all over the country, and Amtrak has a job to make this known as a case for an expedited fleet renewal.
What does Hurricane Sandy have to do with anything? If anything, it diverted more attention and resources to the NEC to fix the damage. I don't see how you can tie that hurricane to LD fleet renewal.
 
My understanding is that the comments Boardman made were with respect to a Superliner III order, more or less, and that they primarily involved the Western LD trains (which is where a lot of the ambiguity seems to lie in terms of long-term policy matters). This plus the mockup taking place at Wilmington suggest that there may, in fact, be a single-level LD coach order coming along to replace some of the Amfleets in LD service.

The other issue with Boardman's comments is that it's not clear what he actually wants in terms of "clear guidance" (or if we'd know it if we saw it). At least some dedicated funding might do the trick, but it's not like I expect to see Congress passing a resolution saying "We like long-distance trains!" and that triggering an equipment order.
 
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In regard to the orphaned Cardinal, freeing up the full existing sleeper with a bag/dorm should increase the revenue space considerably. Getting a full diner back on that train also increases its attractiveness over the current food service offering. Out of curiosity, though, is there any chatter to placing a second sleeper for a total of two on top of the bag/dorm and diner?
Yeah, the Cardinal is really the underdog of the LD trains, along with the SL. This train may take a bir circle but it atually has quite a bit of potential in West Virginia and the Ohio River Valley, so it should really get better. In those places there is no parallel Interstate, no parallel bus service, and very poor airline service.
Well, the problem is that the Cardinal is screwed by the map. It's always had a bunch of issues as a train that come from both being once-a-day (at best) and being an unwieldy merger of two pre-existing routes. The travel times aren't great (and are hard to improve).

I had a long chat with someone about this train, and apparently Virginia has looked at everything under the sun to try and improve it. Basically, the problem is that it has four main potential markets:

1) Western VA to the NEC (115-379 mi)

2) Cincinatti to the NEC (603-828 mi)

3) Cincinatti to Chicago (319 mi; 9:42 WB, 8:32 EB)

4) Indianapolis to Chicago (196 mi; 5:05 WB, 5:05 EB)

Basically, it can't handle CIN-CHI during daylight without screwing up connections in Chicago, even with substantial track improvements. It can't handle CHI-IND at decent hours without improvements or cutting those connections. CIN-NEC is complicated by the Chicago issues. That all leaves Virginia as a major, well-timed market candidate, and /that/ is a mess because the train has to cover the New River Gorge, which makes the train unable to cover Lynchburg or Roanoke.

In short, it's a "no good answer" train.
At least they could upgrade the Buckingham Branch then make the Card daily. If we need more capacity we'll go from there.
 
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