Noise pollution

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When a city/town/community get approval for a quiet zone, don't THEY have to come up with the money for the crossing equipment upgrades (vs the railroad)?
In most cases the cost of building, maintaining, and upgrading public crossings is born by the taxpayer. However, not every quiet zone requires expensive upgrades. Some "quiet zones" have been created simply by removing or blocking the crossing from further use for little more than the cost of a barricade or guard rail and related bureaucratic overhead. That's a very cheap if inelegant option when compared to the enormous cost of substantially modifying a major crossing.
 
Is the post about the horns serious, or some kind of performance art?
I think it's serious; although, I have to admit I laughed when I read the bit about thinking the horn pattern was some kind of advertising jingle. That's a new one. :) I can see how some people might think that, though, since the pattern at the crossing IS kind of musical. When you have multiple crossings in an area, that pattern is repeated, hence "song".
 
Would I be correct in saying that, even with an FRA-approved "Quiet Zone" for the City of Davis (which, mind you, has only one grade crossing in the entire city which Amtrak trains pass through) that trains would still be required to blow their horn to signal their movement?
That's certainly the case here in Fresno.

The station is in the middle of a quiet zone, but Amtrak trains still blow their horn twice as they depart.
Yes, quiet zone rules only apply to grade crossings. All other rules regarding horn use would still remain in effect despite the grade crossing quiet zone. After all the point of blowing the horn twice before moving is to warn people, especially the crew, that the train is about to move. It's their warning to get clear of the train if they're in harms way ASAP.
 
Would I be correct in saying that, even with an FRA-approved "Quiet Zone" for the City of Davis (which, mind you, has only one grade crossing in the entire city which Amtrak trains pass through) that trains would still be required to blow their horn to signal their movement?
That's certainly the case here in Fresno.

The station is in the middle of a quiet zone, but Amtrak trains still blow their horn twice as they depart.
Yes, quiet zone rules only apply to grade crossings. All other rules regarding horn use would still remain in effect despite the grade crossing quiet zone. After all the point of blowing the horn twice before moving is to warn people, especially the crew, that the train is about to move. It's their warning to get clear of the train if they're in harms way ASAP.
Also lets the crew know Direction, 2 = Forward, 3 = Reverse, 1 = Stopped + Brakes are set.

Aloha
 
NEC trains have a "quiet car" in the back -- why can't LD trains have at least a "quiet section", maybe in lower level coach in one of the cars?
If it were up to me *all* cars would be quiet cars except for one car at the front of the train next to the locomotives that would be set aside for obnoxious kids, phone drones, musical menaces, blabbermouths, and other noise polluters.

Maybe it's time to start treating clueless noise addicts the same way we treat nicotine addicts?

"Ladies and Gentlemen, our next designated noise stop is in St. Louis, about an hour away."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, we will have a brief noise stop at this station. Please stay close to the train and pay attention for the whistle and the "All Aboard" call"

I don't know. I've had some fairly miserable trips where there were poorly-behaved parents (I figure if a kid is consistently loud and rude, chances are it's because the parent isn't doing their job) or where there were just loud people. I'd love to see a mostly-quiet-car train but I also recognize that I am probably in a minority.

Usually the sleepers are pretty good but I remember one trip where the SCA had to keep coming and telling the people in the two sleepers behind me to (a) quiet down and (b) that they ONLY could consume their alcohol in the sleeper. (And there must have been lots; I could smell it with my sleeper door closed.

Also one trip next to the family bedroom where one of the children threw what seemed like an hours-long tantrum.
 
*** NOTE THE PRIOR POSTS WERE MADE 1-2 YEARS OR MORE PRIOR ***

As a Davis resident who has lived across the street from the railroad tracks on H Street for 20 years, I can speak from experience.

I've always loved the train coming through town and delivering beets to the former cannery and bringing loads of fresh cut timber down from Oregon. If it wasn't for the trains, Davis would probably not have existed or grown. So the fact is that I am not against the train, and I recognize that the train was here before my house was built.

The difference is that the equipment has changed drastically over the years. I recently had a discussion with the railroad company and the facts are that the trains were upgraded to newer louder horns. I think the horns are now designed to generate up to 95 dB which is 100 times louder than they were previously. That is very loud if you live by the tracks, so loud that it has severely affected the quality of life of those living by the tracks. I'm sure there is a safety reason for the increase in horn loudness, however in this stretch of the rail corridor, I cannot find any justification for the increase in sound levels.

As stated in Section 7 of the CCJA http://city-managers-office.cityofdavis.org/Media/Default/Documents/PDF/CMO/Depot-Crossing/protest-ccjpa.pdf Trains must sound their horn if "a trespasser is seen closely approaching" I can attest that the horn is used even if no person is even remotely seen closely approaching.

This brings up the human interpretation of the regulations and most likely the reason for the complaints; ie the freedom that is given to the train engineer to interpret the conditions. It is my opinion that certain train engineers use the horn much like a small child bangs on a piano: to draw attention to themselves. At 6AM the engineer who commutes from Woodland using the locomotive blasts the students living in the apartment buildings with a long loud wakeup call. In the evening on the commute back home, sometimes at 10PM or later, the railroad operators says"goodnight" with a long drawn out blast of his horn again. These blasts last for 30 to 45 seconds and cannot be ignored. Note that all of the crossings in town are protected by advance warning bells, red flashing lights and gates that close down automatically before the train approaches. the horn is an additional warning signal, that I believe is used excessively.

So the issue is most likely one of over zealous or inappropriate use of the horns rather than the existence of the train tracks in town.
 
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Federal law requires the horn to be sounded where indicated. (Grade crossings, switches, if a work crew is near, when a trespasser is on the tracks, etc...) Just because the crossing has gates and bells, FEDERAL law still require a horn, unless it is designated as quiet zone. If you want that crossing to be designated as such, contact your local city to see if they can comply with the requirements and expense involved to create a quiet zone!
 
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Federal law requires the horn to be sounded where indicated. (Grade crossings, switches, if a work crew is near, when a trespasser is on the tracks, etc...) Just because the crossing has gates and bells, FEDERAL law still require a horn, unless it is designated as quiet zone. If you want that crossing to be designated as such, contact your local city to see if they can comply with the requirements and expense involved to create a quiet zone!
Even in quiet zones some engineers still honk the horn all along the way. Over and over again crossing after crossing after crossing. Are they seeing trespassers at every single milepost? Seems rather unlikely to me.
 
I think the horns are now designed to generate up to 95 dB which is 100 times louder than they were previously.
95 dB isn't loud enough.

49 CFR:

§ 229.129 Locomotive horn.

(a) Each lead locomotive shall be equipped with a locomotive horn that produces a minimum sound level of 96 dB(A) and a maximum sound level of 110 dB(A) at 100 feet forward of the locomotive in its direction of travel. The locomotive horn shall be arranged so that it can be conveniently operated from the engineer's usual position during operation of the locomotive.
100 times louder would be a 20 dB difference. The rule has never been for a 76 dB horn, so you're a little wide of the mark here.
 
This issue won't go away.

There are people who can't adapt to the place they've chosen to live.

A very few of them try to blame others for the noise they've chosen to live with - whether airport, train, freeway --.Me got no sympathy - but recommend move to Wyoming, Shikoku
 
I have been curious about this so let me ask here....

On the NEC and also on all the commuter lines around New York, no one ever blows a horn when departing a station. What sort of waiver is needed to get away with that? Is it just an individual railroad operating rules? Or does it have something to do with the FRA too?
 
I have been curious about this so let me ask here....

On the NEC and also on all the commuter lines around New York, no one ever blows a horn when departing a station. What sort of waiver is needed to get away with that? Is it just an individual railroad operating rules? Or does it have something to do with the FRA too?
I wondered too about the horn when departing WIL. I don't recall ever hearing it when I stop by the station during my walks or when I've taken a train. I don't think my hearing loss is so bad as to not hear the horn.
 
There is no federal requirement to blow the horn when departing a station. I have no idea why horns are blown when departing stations in so many locations. (The bells are nearly always rung, but that's different).

My best guess? Pedestrian grade crossings near the station. Those do not exist at most of the "silent" stations I know about. The horn may have to be blown for the pedestrian grade crossing.
 
When gates time out and reopen in front of a stopped train, the train horn must be sounded for the gate to restart its cycle, A microphone can be seen on such gates. For these locations, and there are quite a few on Caltrain, the horn must be sounded in advance of the crossing regardless of "quiet zone" restrictions.
 
I believe that the only federally mandated time that a train must sound it's horn is when approaching a railroad crossing, or there are pedestrians near the tracks (inc. workers). All other times are rules set up by the Railroads, per advice from the FRA. Most freight railroads require the horn sound when stopping, starting, etc. I think on the NEC, why you don't here it is because Amtrak doesn't have that rule.

peter
 
I have been curious about this so let me ask here....

On the NEC and also on all the commuter lines around New York, no one ever blows a horn when departing a station. What sort of waiver is needed to get away with that? Is it just an individual railroad operating rules? Or does it have something to do with the FRA too?
I live close to the F (Van Sicklen) line in Coney Island. Whenever there is a work gang on the tracks, the trains blow their horn to say... here I am. When the signal person waves the train through once he sees the tracks are clear, the train gives two short bursts to acknowledge the ok to go. I also am not too far from a tight curve by West 8th on the F line. If the oilers need oil to stop the squealing of the steel wheels on steel tracks, trust me, the next day, they are fixing that problem. The nearby residents have the MTA on speed dial.

Bruce-SSR
 
Is the post about the horns serious, or some kind of performance art?
ly]lyWell, obviously, some kind of art, or sick joke.

Nobody in their right mind would restrict a train operator from using the horn - if even slight chance of hitting and killing a person. Really - jump up and down, scream, shout, whatever -- most of us really really don't want to ever kill another person

Even if - as some upthread idiot said -- blowing the horn "Well, I didn-t see anyone threatened the damn driver should not hit the horn - never trust that clot - whoever uptheread fool said that --

anyhow.

Apologize for responding to ancient creepy troll.

Sorry.
 
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