OBS Crew going off the clock

[National Limited]

I had supper this evening with a couple of friends. In the course of conversation Amtrak came up. The minute I mentioned taking the train they rolled their eyes and told me the following "never again" experience. Several years ago they took one of the Silver Service trains from Jacksonville, FL to Washington D.C. and back. On the return trip their engined died, including the HEP. They were stuck on a siding for 8 hours waiting for another engine to arrive. They said that during the wait the crew went past their service time and stopped working--the lounge crew, the diner crew, the coach attendants, etc. They said there was no food, no electricity (and this was in May of the year) and no one cleaning the coaches, especially the bathroomw. I have heard of the engineer and conductor having to stop work because of passing their maximum hours but I've not heard of the OBS crew doing this. Their trip would have been 10 or 15 years ago. Could this be possible?

 

[amtrakwolverine]

If it is it's a sever case of dereliction of duty. The OBS crew do not outlaw they are always working and stay with the train from end point to end point. They are guaranteed some hours of sleep but they do not outlaw. Engineers and conductors only work 6 hours now I was told down from 12.

 

[oldtimer]

I had supper this evening with a couple of friends. In the course of conversation Amtrak came up. The minute I mentioned taking the train they rolled their eyes and told me the following "never again" experience. Several years ago they took one of the Silver Service trains from Jacksonville, FL to Washington D.C. and back. On the return trip their engined died, including the HEP. They were stuck on a siding for 8 hours waiting for another engine to arrive. They said that during the wait the crew went past their service time and stopped working--the lounge crew, the diner crew, the coach attendants, etc. They said there was no food, no electricity (and this was in May of the year) and no one cleaning the coaches, especially the bathroomw. I have heard of the engineer and conductor having to stop work because of passing their maximum hours but I've not heard of the OBS crew doing this. Their trip would have been 10 or 15 years ago. Could this be possible?

It is only the operating crew that have a limit on their hours worked. This is not a union or company limit it is a Federal Law. This law covers the engineer, assistant engineer (if used) the conductor, and any assistant conductors, as these employees are directly responsible for the safe operation of the train.

The On Board Service crew is not covered by this law. The dining car and lounge car employees are required to work and in situations where the train is very late they will be compensated at time and one half for extra hours. Now as the train was very late there may not have been any food left to serve, as the train is stocked at its point of origin and not normally restocked en route. Usually before this happens an announcement is made. The coach and sleeping car attendants however are required to work regardless of hours. Their union agreement does call for an amount of off duty (down)time per run. While one attendant is on down time the work is covered by another attendant.

 

[AlanB]

I could see the obs crew possibly going into hiding; but no they don't have an hours of service rule.

As for hiding, many people won't take "the rescue engine is coming" as an answer. They want to know prescisely when and are often quite demanding. If the no HEP story is correct, that would also mean no way to cook anything nor keep things cold that needed to be, and it would mean no flushing toilets making them impossible to clean. That would create yet more reasons for the crew to go into hiding.

 

[daveyb99]

If it is it's a sever case of dereliction of duty.

Careful on your assertions.

With no power, as the story goes, exactly what would they be able to do.

Why do people think that if something goes wrong, that they deserve to be waited on hand and foot.

I see it happen at airports all the time.

 

[National Limited]

Yes, it could very well be that they misunderstood and assumed that no food available meant that the crew went off the clock.

It is very sad that the crew would hide somewhere so they didn't have to deal with the passengers. That is their job--to assist the passengers. Hope that doesn't happen often. I wouldn't want to be around angry passengers either but if I was getting paid to do so I'd do it. I would think that simply being readily available and talking with passengers would keep all but the worse behaving people calm in this type of situation.

Is it impossible for the rescue engine to provide the crew of the stranded train with an ETA? Doesn't Amtrak have some kind of agreement with host railroads to provide motive power in these kind of cases? I would think the host RR would want to get the Amtrak train out of the way as quickly as possible.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

At daveyb99 There are foods they can serve without power.

 

[gswager]

Once after the power to dining car is off for a certain amount of time and temperature, FDA requires to throw the food from the refrigerator/freezer away.

 

[zephyr17]

At daveyb99 There are foods they can serve without power.

The famous late-train Dinty Moore beef stew...

 

[AlanB]

It is very sad that the crew would hide somewhere so they didn't have to deal with the passengers. That is their job--to assist the passengers. Hope that doesn't happen often. I wouldn't want to be around angry passengers either but if I was getting paid to do so I'd do it. I would think that simply being readily available and talking with passengers would keep all but the worse behaving people calm in this type of situation.

It doesn't always happen, but it does happen.

Is it impossible for the rescue engine to provide the crew of the stranded train with an ETA? Doesn't Amtrak have some kind of agreement with host railroads to provide motive power in these kind of cases? I would think the host RR would want to get the Amtrak train out of the way as quickly as possible.

Unless the crew of the rescue engine is within a few miles it is impossible for them to communicate directly with the Amtrak crew. Now the crew of the rescue engine can communicate with the host RR which can then rely that info to Amtrak, but that doesn't always happen.

However the bigger issue is that the host RR doesn't just have a "rescue engine" sitting around. It's often many miles away and sometimes an engine that is already attached to a freight train. You also have to find a crew who won't outlaw before completing the rescue or at least before getting the train to a point where it is easy to change out the crew. Finally it's not uncommon to find that the first half hour after a failure is spent with the engineer on the phone/radio with support techs trying to fix the problem before needing to ask for a rescue engine.

It's these uncertainties that often make it impossible for a crew to say "the rescue engine will be here in an hour." Besides, even AAA won't tell you that the tow truck will be there in 15 minutes exactly.

Last, but not least, the host RR would indeed want Amtrak out of the way. But again, it takes time.

It's also important to note that rescue engines from freight RR's cannot provide HEP. So if all Amtrak engines on the train are down, passengers may be moving, but they still won't have power.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

As for OBS crew , once lights are out, and no other power available they can't do much either, and now it becomes a safety issue.

you do as little as possible, if you start to hand out food it will encourage people to start walking around etc and add to unsafe situation.

Cleaning bathrooms ?? with what, with no power the toilets are useless and after while even emergency lights are out.

 

[Greg]

I had supper this evening with a couple of friends. In the course of conversation Amtrak came up. The minute I mentioned taking the train they rolled their eyes and told me the following "never again" experience. Several years ago they took one of the Silver Service trains from Jacksonville, FL to Washington D.C. and back. On the return trip their engined died, including the HEP. They were stuck on a siding for 8 hours waiting for another engine to arrive. They said that during the wait the crew went past their service time and stopped working--the lounge crew, the diner crew, the coach attendants, etc. They said there was no food, no electricity (and this was in May of the year) and no one cleaning the coaches, especially the bathroomw. I have heard of the engineer and conductor having to stop work because of passing their maximum hours but I've not heard of the OBS crew doing this. Their trip would have been 10 or 15 years ago. Could this be possible?

I take the Silver Service (and that's stretching the meaning of the word "service") and none of what you have written surprises me. It seems the further north and west you go, the service seems to get better. I've traveled all over the country many times and the Silver trains are by far the worst, service-wise.

 

[rrdude]

Trust me, we had MORE THAN OUR SHARE of equipment failures.

They even issued, every trip, those little chemical lights. I served dinner in the diner more than once with four or five of those dropped into a monkey bowl, to use as lighting. Of course, those diners used dry ice and Presto logs for the oven too!

We were always told that "if the passengers suffer, then we suffer". In other words, we never "hid". AC out? Open the vestibule doors, the kitchen side doors, and all the end doors. Was it dusty as hell. Damn right it was, but it was moving air........

Now things HAVE changed since then, but to "hide". That's just wrong. It is the natural reaction, who WANTS to be hammered by the CX, when there is NOTHING that you can do? But Amtrak is a SERVICE BUSINESS, and should act like it.