P42s on the Talgo

[Mark]

I was browsing and noticed this article:

"Amtrak to Test GE Locomotives for Cascades Route" http://ohsonline.com/articles/2009/04/13/a...ades-route.aspx

I didn't know that Amtrak had to have special, (FRA), permission to use P42s/P32-8s for the Talgos. Does this article imply an increase in speed for the Talgos? Why the change in locomotives?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I wouldn't see how this would increase the speed... the limit for the tracks is still 79mph with overspeed set at 83 (?). Perhaps with the P42s Amtrak can get the top speed increased on the tracks?

 

[Shawn]

Ironically, Amtrak has been running P42s on this route often. However, they operate at the "passenger" train speed and not the "Talgo" speed.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

the might be testing to see if they can handle the talgo speed. heres a talgo with a dash-8 leading

 

[Neil_M]

On my trip to Portland at the beginning of March P42 112 was out and about on the Talgo trains.

http://50031.fotopic.net/p56832696.html

http://50031.fotopic.net/p56832695.html

http://50031.fotopic.net/p56863397.html

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

The P42s can be substituted but aren't allowed to travel at the Talgo rated speeds-- it seems like Amtrak's only purpose with this is to make the P42s go up so that the engines become more interchangable...

 

[printman2000]

What speeds do the Talgo travel with there normal locos?

 

[MattW]

It does seem like the F59s in the Cascades scheme are replaced quite a lot by P42s and others (less frequently) perhaps they're just trying to maintain OTP regardless of equipment malfunctions.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

What speeds do the Talgo travel with there normal locos?

I think its only 35 in some sections of track. Its posted, and I know the talgos have exceeded it.

 

[Shawn]

Talgo speeds...for example....the curve at Meeker in Puyallup is posted

T 79

P 70

F 60

 

[gswager]

Mostly for the curves. Talgo has an ability to tilt, like Acela.

Somewhere in other topic, they were testing new kind of brake technology in Chicago vicinity. Probably another reason...

 

[Trogdor]

Do the locomotives impact whether or not the tilting technology works in the Talgos?

I've always wondered why the F59s were used on the Cascades instead of the P42s, considering that the F59s have a separate HEP engine in them, yet the Talgos have their own power car.

 

[jackal]

Mostly for the curves. Talgo has an ability to tilt, like Acela.
Somewhere in other topic, they were testing new kind of brake technology in Chicago vicinity. Probably another reason...

I thought I had read around here that the tilting action of Acela was strictly for passenger comfort and had nothing to do with safety or lowering centrifugal forces. Indeed, Acela power cars don't tilt, which sort of lends credence to that idea.

I'd assume it's the same with the Talgo equipment: tilting is for passenger comfort and not for safety. The higher speed allowed isn't because Talgo tilting trains can hold to the tracks better but rather because trains can take curves faster without people's drinks sloshing excessively.

In the case of the Talgos, neither the F59s nor even the cabbage F49s tilt, so there should be no reason why a non-tilting GE can't take the curve at the higher speeds.

Obviously it's not a problem if Amtrak is getting them certified, but I wonder why this is even a question and why they even need to be certified.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Mostly for the curves. Talgo has an ability to tilt, like Acela.
Somewhere in other topic, they were testing new kind of brake technology in Chicago vicinity. Probably another reason...

I thought I had read around here that the tilting action of Acela was strictly for passenger comfort and had nothing to do with safety or lowering centrifugal forces. Indeed, Acela power cars don't tilt, which sort of lends credence to that idea.

I'd assume it's the same with the Talgo equipment: tilting is for passenger comfort and not for safety. The higher speed allowed isn't because Talgo tilting trains can hold to the tracks better but rather because trains can take curves faster without people's drinks sloshing excessively.

In the case of the Talgos, neither the F59s nor even the cabbage F49s tilt, so there should be no reason why a non-tilting GE can't take the curve at the higher speeds.

Obviously it's not a problem if Amtrak is getting them certified, but I wonder why this is even a question and why they even need to be certified.

does it have to do with the weight of the loco. the cabbage has cement weights so it can pull the talgos.

 

[Trogdor]

does it have to do with the weight of the loco. the cabbage has cement weights so it can pull the talgos.

Technically, the cabbage doesn't pull anything, since it doesn't move under its own power.

I would imagine that a P42 would be quite a bit heavier than a NPCU. An Amtrak employee once told me that the cabbages rode horribly because they were so light, having been built as locomotives and then having the engine taken out. That would explain why they put the cement blocks in, to simulate the weight of an engine.