Pacific Parlor Cars

[sunchaser]

I see the PPCs going down probably sooner than 2012, possibly as early as this year.Now the Amfleet II Diner Lites have regular booths like any Superliner Diner, etc and do not have any similaritys to the CCCs.

Now currently the only train that actually uses the cars for Diner service is the Cardinal. The LSL now has a full diner again, with the Amfleet II lounge still going to NY and Horizon cafe going to Boston. Supposedly a time will come when the Amfleet II Diner Lite might go to Boston, but still no word on when.

Now my take on the PPCs, they are awesome cars. They offer great view, good althernative to a regular train around the system. Of course they're noice, but to maintain these cars with so little resources for them isn't an easy task. These cars could have easily been retired years back but Amtrak has been grateful to pax for keeping these soldiers going. I wish I could experience it, but I think the time is coming for its retirement...

Why do you think this year for the Parlor Cars, when there are no replacements ready yet? Amtrak said 2012. If Amtrak runs things the way you all say they do, then I would expect later, rather than sooner!

I really hope not! Last year was our first time on the Coast Starlight, & try as I might, it's not likely that we will do another CS trip this year. Hubby said next year!

 

[cpamtfan]

Well the mechanics of the car are getting harder and harder to maintain. They've done as much work on the cars as they really can, it is just a matter of time now.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

why not just make the parts needed to keep the PPCs running. The steam locomotives that are still in use you just can't go and buy most of the parts they have to be machine made from scratch.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Well the mechanics of the car are getting harder and harder to maintain. They've done as much work on the cars as they really can, it is just a matter of time now.

Pfui. The PPC is not as complicated mechanically as the Heritage Diners, and these cars are quite a bit newer. Amtrak can and should replace them when replacements are build-able. But I don't think Amtrak will ditch these cars when they have been shown to generate considerable amounts of revenue.

 

[AlanB]

why not just make the parts needed to keep the PPCs running. The steam locomotives that are still in use you just can't go and buy most of the parts they have to be machine made from scratch.

Amtrak just sent all these cars through Beech Grove for a major rebuild just 2 years ago IIRC, so retiring them within the next year would be way premature and a waste of money if they did that.

 

[MikeM]

Well the mechanics of the car are getting harder and harder to maintain. They've done as much work on the cars as they really can, it is just a matter of time now.

Pfui. The PPC is not as complicated mechanically as the Heritage Diners, and these cars are quite a bit newer. Amtrak can and should replace them when replacements are build-able. But I don't think Amtrak will ditch these cars when they have been shown to generate considerable amounts of revenue.

I agree with what the GML says about the mechanics of the cars - Beach Grove just redid all of the HVAC including building all custom systems since nothing like the cars used to have is still in the fleet. So I think they'll be around for a while. And I think there'd be rioting in CA if they disappeared without some substitution made, as the cars are a big part of the marketing for the route.

But I'm confused. Did someone steal GML's login? :unsure: Back on post 25 of this thread in response to some discussion about providing modest upgrades like the PPC to drive further revenues, he stated that earlier efforts to add extra upgrades and services was never shown to improve revenues. But here in this last comment he says that the cars have been shown to generate considerable amounts of revenue. So either there is a market for REASONABLE upgrades that can be defended as a way to enhance first class occupancy and fares, or any effort is stupid and bound to get Amtrak management in trouble. Yes, I know we'll never see barber shops, hot tubs, or acrobatic bears on trains in anyone's lifetimes, but on select routes separate parlor/diner cars, welcome packages, route guides, etc could be useful marketing tools.

I'm really not trying to be a turd, most of the time GML has a very good sense of the business and the realities Amtrak is facing, and I enjoy his banter. But in this case, I'm thinking there's a bit of a disconnect. I think Amtrak management sees their mission to run clean, timely, basic trains with modest amenities. But in doing so, could some revenue opportunities be getting overlooked?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

But I'm confused. Did someone steal GML's login? :unsure: Back on post 25 of this thread in response to some discussion about providing modest upgrades like the PPC to drive further revenues, he stated that earlier efforts to add extra upgrades and services was never shown to improve revenues. But here in this last comment he says that the cars have been shown to generate considerable amounts of revenue. So either there is a market for REASONABLE upgrades that can be defended as a way to enhance first class occupancy and fares, or any effort is stupid and bound to get Amtrak management in trouble. Yes, I know we'll never see barber shops, hot tubs, or acrobatic bears on trains in anyone's lifetimes, but on select routes separate parlor/diner cars, welcome packages, route guides, etc could be useful marketing tools.

What I said was that early in its lifetime, Amtrak found that at that time (the 70s-90s) adding services did not substantially increase revenue. With the relauch of the Coast Starlight in '96 and the Empire Builder thereafter, the results were different, and did show an increase in revenue. Beyond that, the PPC as they stand now are specifically designed to generate revenue.

And yes, the key to any upgrade is "reasonable".

 

[jmbgeg]

why not just make the parts needed to keep the PPCs running. The steam locomotives that are still in use you just can't go and buy most of the parts they have to be machine made from scratch.

Amtrak just sent all these cars through Beech Grove for a major rebuild just 2 years ago IIRC, so retiring them within the next year would be way premature and a waste of money if they did that.

I agree.