Passenger comfort

[ferroequineologist]

Living now in Michigan and when riding the Amtrak from Kalamazoo to Chicago, round trip of course! As for added comfort to the wife and daughter traveling with me, I purchased Club Car reserved seats for 3.

Concern 1. Seating arrangement when traveling on the N.E. corridor, such Club car seating is wide seats and added leg room. This was not the fact on the car we rode, as all the Club car reserved seat were shoved quite tight forward allowing major space for some baggage items which did not pay the extra fare.

Concern 2. The seating arrangement was similar to that in standard coach, two adjoining seats on each side of the center aisle. Sadly, the reserved seating placed the wife three rows ahead and the daughter behind, as the man sleeping next to me kept curling up and using both seats for his better comfort whenever I got up to get us drinks or food. Again the seating of Club Car is at an extra fare and should by common reasoning be as well of added comfort and not less. Ultimately on our trip homeward we chose to sit in standard coach class cars as they had nice roomy seating.

Items like this is what customer relations needs to address, and not with white wash and sneering smiles of "Who cares, and or what can we do about it?"

Myself for many years previous of today and even before and after this sad ride on the train I helped keep our Michigan rail lines operating. The trains were when under Penn Central ran then as they do today, similar in numbers or trains and scheduling of them. They are clean inside, and windows appear too often as equal to P.C. with the exception that along the rails the trees are trimmed away from doing brush cleaning during wet weather when the train is passing green trees with wet leaves as then operated in the glorious 60's.

Train washing is something long hence ignored by the rail operators, save Amtrak who continues to feel monetary crunches, obviously due to limited availability of funds, as well foul weather.

The exceptions were in history as of such railroads as Union Pacific, Santa Fe, Burlington, Western Pacific, Great Northern, Northern Pacific, Grand Trunk Western, Southern Ry, and likely a few others I do not know of who kept glass clean year-round. People like to view the countryside and peering through unwashed glass is not the way to earn return business/riders.

If the suggestion strikes a common concern, then by use of pressure washing of trains mid route, at various station trackage, the delight of customers traveling would take a drastic up-turn toward thinking in positive attitude toward using the train again. I would be happy to suggest such an item added to the Kalamazoo station facility, at the city commission meeting. They too have limited funds available, but by suggesting of such an enhancement, the idea is posted in the minutes and made available to bring up the question again.

Many continuing concerns come with operating such a wide variance of routes and trains. Passenger comfort and enjoyment need to be primary, at the least in the marketing and equipment availability.

This opening a smaller forum considering suggestions by passengers for on-train comfort:

 

[AAARGH!]

If the suggestion strikes a common concern, then by use of pressure washing of trains mid route, at various station trackage, the delight of customers traveling would take a drastic up-turn toward thinking in positive attitude toward using the train again. I would be happy to suggest such an item added to the Kalamazoo station facility, at the city commission meeting. They too have limited funds available, but by suggesting of such an enhancement, the idea is posted in the minutes and made available to bring up the question again.

I, like you am dismayed at how dirty the windows are. They are not cleaned as they should be.

However, I do not agree with you about adding mid-route washes. This would slow the schedule down too much, even if just to slow down going through the wash. Cleaning the windows at the beginning of each route is enough (if they bother to do that).

If Amtrak is going to spend money, it should be on getting more equipment on the road, not keeping them spotless mid-route.

 

[Guest]

If the suggestion strikes a common concern, then by use of pressure washing of trains mid route, at various station trackage, the delight of customers traveling would take a drastic up-turn toward thinking in positive attitude toward using the train again. I would be happy to suggest such an item added to the Kalamazoo station facility, at the city commission meeting. They too have limited funds available, but by suggesting of such an enhancement, the idea is posted in the minutes and made available to bring up the question again.

I, like you am dismayed at how dirty the windows are. They are not cleaned as they should be.

However, I do not agree with you about adding mid-route washes. This would slow the schedule down too much, even if just to slow down going through the wash. Cleaning the windows at the beginning of each route is enough (if they bother to do that).

If Amtrak is going to spend money, it should be on getting more equipment on the road, not keeping them spotless mid-route.

If they are going to spend any more money on cleaning it needs to be on the inside of the car. Some trains I have gotten on have been disgusting. It is like they run a vacuum and wipe the surfaces down real quick and that is it. Kind of like a cheap hotel. I have yet to see a train that was cleaned with attention to detail.

 

[bretton88]

Amtrak still does a mid route wash, for the CZ going westbound. There might be other locations (ABQ?) with long stops that get mid route washes too. I know last time I took the CZ west, they washed the windows there.

 

[goodnightjohnwayne]

Living now in Michigan and when riding the Amtrak from Kalamazoo to Chicago, round trip of course! As for added comfort to the wife and daughter traveling with me, I purchased Club Car reserved seats for 3.
Concern 1. Seating arrangement when traveling on the N.E. corridor, such Club car seating is wide seats and added leg room. This was not the fact on the car we rode, as all the Club car reserved seat were shoved quite tight forward allowing major space for some baggage items which did not pay the extra fare.

Concern 2. The seating arrangement was similar to that in standard coach, two adjoining seats on each side of the center aisle. Sadly, the reserved seating placed the wife three rows ahead and the daughter behind, as the man sleeping next to me kept curling up and using both seats for his better comfort whenever I got up to get us drinks or food. Again the seating of Club Car is at an extra fare and should by common reasoning be as well of added comfort and not less. Ultimately on our trip homeward we chose to sit in standard coach class cars as they had nice roomy seating.

Items like this is what customer relations needs to address, and not with white wash and sneering smiles of "Who cares, and or what can we do about it?"

Myself for many years previous of today and even before and after this sad ride on the train I helped keep our Michigan rail lines operating. The trains were when under Penn Central ran then as they do today, similar in numbers or trains and scheduling of them. They are clean inside, and windows appear too often as equal to P.C. with the exception that along the rails the trees are trimmed away from doing brush cleaning during wet weather when the train is passing green trees with wet leaves as then operated in the glorious 60's.

Train washing is something long hence ignored by the rail operators, save Amtrak who continues to feel monetary crunches, obviously due to limited availability of funds, as well foul weather.

The exceptions were in history as of such railroads as Union Pacific, Santa Fe, Burlington, Western Pacific, Great Northern, Northern Pacific, Grand Trunk Western, Southern Ry, and likely a few others I do not know of who kept glass clean year-round. People like to view the countryside and peering through unwashed glass is not the way to earn return business/riders.

If the suggestion strikes a common concern, then by use of pressure washing of trains mid route, at various station trackage, the delight of customers traveling would take a drastic up-turn toward thinking in positive attitude toward using the train again. I would be happy to suggest such an item added to the Kalamazoo station facility, at the city commission meeting. They too have limited funds available, but by suggesting of such an enhancement, the idea is posted in the minutes and made available to bring up the question again.

Many continuing concerns come with operating such a wide variance of routes and trains. Passenger comfort and enjoyment need to be primary, at the least in the marketing and equipment availability.

This opening a smaller forum considering suggestions by passengers for on-train comfort:

1. The first class "Club" service is exclusive to the Acela Express. I can assure you that you must have traveled in "Business class," which is not a "first class" service. Incidentally, all coach seats are "reserved," in the sense that Amtrak doesn't sell more tickets than seats.

2. I wouldn't expect car any washing facilities in Michigan. I would assume that the coaches are periodically washed in Chicago.

 

[ferroequineologist]

To Guest:

True, limited funds is the major problem, and yet if not considering the comfort of the passenger in all manners, the likelihood of continued use and services is then doomed.

With the political realm making route decisions and continuous battling over promised funding, it very likely that for a while the train windows will remain not as clean as they were in the years before 1960.

James J. Hill of the Great Northern once said, "If our customers look at us through these windows then let them be clean!"

Thanks for speaking your opinion!

 

[ferroequineologist]

Yes, coaches are periodically washed in Chicago, but not every train on every day, as when they come through Michigan they are many time dirty, sometimes very dirty, and occasionally clean, outside. The inside cleaning is good, could be better, but overworked ever fewer employees doing maintenance of equipment means less than spotless, that is why fopr the outside of the train I dare to suggest they need some help.

Thanks for speaking your opinion!

 

[sunchaser]

If the suggestion strikes a common concern, then by use of pressure washing of trains mid route, at various station trackage, the delight of customers traveling would take a drastic up-turn toward thinking in positive attitude toward using the train again. I would be happy to suggest such an item added to the Kalamazoo station facility, at the city commission meeting. They too have limited funds available, but by suggesting of such an enhancement, the idea is posted in the minutes and made available to bring up the question again.

I, like you am dismayed at how dirty the windows are. They are not cleaned as they should be.

However, I do not agree with you about adding mid-route washes. This would slow the schedule down too much, even if just to slow down going through the wash. Cleaning the windows at the beginning of each route is enough (if they bother to do that).

If Amtrak is going to spend money, it should be on getting more equipment on the road, not keeping them spotless mid-route.

If they are going to spend any more money on cleaning it needs to be on the inside of the car. Some trains I have gotten on have been disgusting. It is like they run a vacuum and wipe the surfaces down real quick and that is it. Kind of like a cheap hotel. I have yet to see a train that was cleaned with attention to detail.

Our last two times on the CZ, it was so much cleaner. It smelled clean, the Sleeper Car Attendants kept the bathrooms very clean. I was impressed!

 

[Trogdor]

Living now in Michigan and when riding the Amtrak from Kalamazoo to Chicago, round trip of course! As for added comfort to the wife and daughter traveling with me, I purchased Club Car reserved seats for 3.
Concern 1. Seating arrangement when traveling on the N.E. corridor, such Club car seating is wide seats and added leg room. This was not the fact on the car we rode, as all the Club car reserved seat were shoved quite tight forward allowing major space for some baggage items which did not pay the extra fare.

Concern 2. The seating arrangement was similar to that in standard coach, two adjoining seats on each side of the center aisle. Sadly, the reserved seating placed the wife three rows ahead and the daughter behind, as the man sleeping next to me kept curling up and using both seats for his better comfort whenever I got up to get us drinks or food. Again the seating of Club Car is at an extra fare and should by common reasoning be as well of added comfort and not less. Ultimately on our trip homeward we chose to sit in standard coach class cars as they had nice roomy seating.

Which trains did you ride? Lately, trains 364/365 (Blue Water service) have been operating with Superliners, and thus wouldn't have different business class vs. coach seating. During the winter, trains 350/355 will often run with Superliners, and thus, also will not have business class.

The other trains (351, 352, 353, and 354) run single-level equipment with a 14-seat business class section in half of the cafe car (as does 350/355 when it has single-level cars). These cars have 2+1 seating, not 2+2. It's possible there may have been some equipment substitution because the regular club-dinette was bad-ordered. If that was the case, you'd be due a refund of your accommodation charge (and the conductor should have informed you of such).

Plus, the "reserved" seating wouldn't place you or your family in any specific seats. If those seats were the only ones that were available, then that's just because the other seats were already taken when you boarded.

 

[ferroequineologist]

Living now in Michigan and when riding the Amtrak from Kalamazoo to Chicago, round trip of course! As for added comfort to the wife and daughter traveling with me, I purchased Club Car reserved seats for 3.
Concern 1. Seating arrangement when traveling on the N.E. corridor, such Club car seating is wide seats and added leg room. This was not the fact on the car we rode, as all the Club car reserved seat were shoved quite tight forward allowing major space for some baggage items which did not pay the extra fare.

Concern 2. The seating arrangement was similar to that in standard coach, two adjoining seats on each side of the center aisle. Sadly, the reserved seating placed the wife three rows ahead and the daughter behind, as the man sleeping next to me kept curling up and using both seats for his better comfort whenever I got up to get us drinks or food. Again the seating of Club Car is at an extra fare and should by common reasoning be as well of added comfort and not less. Ultimately on our trip homeward we chose to sit in standard coach class cars as they had nice roomy seating.

Which trains did you ride? Lately, trains 364/365 (Blue Water service) have been operating with Superliners, and thus wouldn't have different business class vs. coach seating. During the winter, trains 350/355 will often run with Superliners, and thus, also will not have business class.

The other trains (351, 352, 353, and 354) run single-level equipment with a 14-seat business class section in half of the cafe car (as does 350/355 when it has single-level cars). These cars have 2+1 seating, not 2+2. It's possible there may have been some equipment substitution because the regular club-dinette was bad-ordered. If that was the case, you'd be due a refund of your accommodation charge (and the conductor should have informed you of such).

Plus, the "reserved" seating wouldn't place you or your family in any specific seats. If those seats were the only ones that were available, then that's just because the other seats were already taken when you boarded.

________________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________

I tried to check for the ticket stubs if I kept them, but we took the first train in the morning from Kzo. The car we rode was an Amfleet car, maybe a club/cafe car, the seating there being behind a curtain but the seats all 16 were scrunched quite tightly together; me being 6'6" made it near to impossible to sit, without putting my legs into aisle.

Sad that in this modern day with computers and science, the old manner of offering service to the traveler seems forgotten. Example was when in the 1960's riding the G.T.W. Maple Leaf train to Chicago and back to Battle Creek, the then club car seating was lavish leather recliner seats one on each side of the center aisle. That car was a dinner/club car, and when ordering food the waiter took the order and returned with it on a tray, giving service worthy the price of the added fare. This is not done that way on the Michigan trains, a service if provided might well add to the traveling patrons aboard those willing and well able to pay the higher price for s-e-r-v-i-c-e!

Sadly, all that matters now to management is putting numbers in seats and leaving the passengers to fend for themselves. Its a matter of want, if you want to offer service and operate a business, any business in a successful manner, then service to the customer MUST be the highest priority.

Sorry did not mean to preach!

 

[Larry H.]

If the suggestion strikes a common concern, then by use of pressure washing of trains mid route, at various station trackage, the delight of customers traveling would take a drastic up-turn toward thinking in positive attitude toward using the train again. I would be happy to suggest such an item added to the Kalamazoo station facility, at the city commission meeting. They too have limited funds available, but by suggesting of such an enhancement, the idea is posted in the minutes and made available to bring up the question again.

I, like you am dismayed at how dirty the windows are. They are not cleaned as they should be.

However, I do not agree with you about adding mid-route washes. This would slow the schedule down too much, even if just to slow down going through the wash. Cleaning the windows at the beginning of each route is enough (if they bother to do that).

If Amtrak is going to spend money, it should be on getting more equipment on the road, not keeping them spotless mid-route.

Fortunately on the three long distance runs I took the last few years they did have crews that washed the outside windows at some extended stops. That is at least a small step in the right direction.

 

[sunchaser]

Living now in Michigan and when riding the Amtrak from Kalamazoo to Chicago, round trip of course! As for added comfort to the wife and daughter traveling with me, I purchased Club Car reserved seats for 3.
Concern 1. Seating arrangement when traveling on the N.E. corridor, such Club car seating is wide seats and added leg room. This was not the fact on the car we rode, as all the Club car reserved seat were shoved quite tight forward allowing major space for some baggage items which did not pay the extra fare.

Concern 2. The seating arrangement was similar to that in standard coach, two adjoining seats on each side of the center aisle. Sadly, the reserved seating placed the wife three rows ahead and the daughter behind, as the man sleeping next to me kept curling up and using both seats for his better comfort whenever I got up to get us drinks or food. Again the seating of Club Car is at an extra fare and should by common reasoning be as well of added comfort and not less. Ultimately on our trip homeward we chose to sit in standard coach class cars as they had nice roomy seating.

Which trains did you ride? Lately, trains 364/365 (Blue Water service) have been operating with Superliners, and thus wouldn't have different business class vs. coach seating. During the winter, trains 350/355 will often run with Superliners, and thus, also will not have business class.

The other trains (351, 352, 353, and 354) run single-level equipment with a 14-seat business class section in half of the cafe car (as does 350/355 when it has single-level cars). These cars have 2+1 seating, not 2+2. It's possible there may have been some equipment substitution because the regular club-dinette was bad-ordered. If that was the case, you'd be due a refund of your accommodation charge (and the conductor should have informed you of such).

Plus, the "reserved" seating wouldn't place you or your family in any specific seats. If those seats were the only ones that were available, then that's just because the other seats were already taken when you boarded.

________________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________

I tried to check for the ticket stubs if I kept them, but we took the first train in the morning from Kzo. The car we rode was an Amfleet car, maybe a club/cafe car, the seating there being behind a curtain but the seats all 16 were scrunched quite tightly together; me being 6'6" made it near to impossible to sit, without putting my legs into aisle.

Sad that in this modern day with computers and science, the old manner of offering service to the traveler seems forgotten. Example was when in the 1960's riding the G.T.W. Maple Leaf train to Chicago and back to Battle Creek, the then club car seating was lavish leather recliner seats one on each side of the center aisle. That car was a dinner/club car, and when ordering food the waiter took the order and returned with it on a tray, giving service worthy the price of the added fare. This is not done that way on the Michigan trains, a service if provided might well add to the traveling patrons aboard those willing and well able to pay the higher price for s-e-r-v-i-c-e!

Sadly, all that matters now to management is putting numbers in seats and leaving the passengers to fend for themselves. Its a matter of want, if you want to offer service and operate a business, any business in a successful manner, then service to the customer MUST be the highest priority.

Sorry did not mean to preach!

Just for giggles, I just checked amtrak.com. The first train in the AM from KALamazoo to CHIcago is the 351 Wolverine. It does have Business Class available. The next one is the 365 Blue Water, which also has Business Class.

 

[Larry H.]

This has always been a thorn in my side too. I have no compassion for those who constantly make excuses for trains that are tattered, beat up, torn seats, strewn trash bags everywhere, dirty corners in the bathrooms and other cars. And yes those really disappointing windows.

Your point is well taken that a company that has any concept of pleasing the passenger, not to mention charging them thousands of dollars to boot, should provide at a minimum clean windows, and well maintained equipment. That was why I commented in the thread with the B&O Train photos from the 50's on how wonderful the cars looked. You could tell that the company prided it self in the way the railroad was presented to the public. That is lost with a government system with limited funds and complex union rules.

At least some here see the benefits of having decent conditions, and often what some people will defend here is mediocre at best. I still contend that the tone is set from the top and if there is no follow though on complaints and conditions onboard things will remain barely adequate for the fares charged.

 

[ferroequineologist]

This has always been a thorn in my side too. I have no compassion for those who constantly make excuses for trains that are tattered, beat up, torn seats, strewn trash bags everywhere, dirty corners in the bathrooms and other cars. And yes those really disappointing windows.
Your point is well taken that a company that has any concept of pleasing the passenger, not to mention charging them thousands of dollars to boot, should provide at a minimum clean windows, and well maintained equipment. That was why I commented in the thread with the B&O Train photos from the 50's on how wonderful the cars looked. You could tell that the company prided it self in the way the railroad was presented to the public. That is lost with a government system with limited funds and complex union rules.

At least some here see the benefits of having decent conditions, and often what some people will defend here is mediocre at best. I still contend that the tone is set from the top and if there is no follow though on complaints and conditions onboard things will remain barely adequate for the fares charged.

________________________________________________________________________________

______________________________________

"Ferroequineologist" Ferro is IRON, Equine as is a Horse, Ologist the study thereof!"

Remembering back to the years before Senatorial dispatchers, the Burlington Railroad operated trains between Chicago and Denver. The CZ (California Zephyr) departed Union Station Chicago at 2:30pm; while the Denver Zephyr departed at 6:00pm. The DZ arrived in Denver before 9:00am, as the CZ arrived midmorning, now that was high speed operations some 50 years previous and not capable in this more modern age.

Profits: The railroads handled the mail, even with the present day transporting of express packages and 4th class mail the cost ratio for Amtrak operations and the U.S. Post office looks better in both sets of accounting books. Why all the rule to limit what is progress and make our country less efficient than those of whom we are trying to compete?

April 1964 my Union Pacific City of everywhere train departed Chicago with 8 engines on the front, and 12 baggage cars filled with bulk class mail. The train had too 10 coach cars, two diners, a club car dome, and seven sleeper cars, now that is what you call, utilization!

Looking back and then to present day, the super-liner styling of passenger cars is rather bland when one looks to what was common in earlier decades. Even if operating at our lower speeds, would not TVG use something with an appearance of being streamlined, if only for P.R. to lure people to ride???

 

[ferroequineologist]

This has always been a thorn in my side too. I have no compassion for those who constantly make excuses for trains that are tattered, beat up, torn seats, strewn trash bags everywhere, dirty corners in the bathrooms and other cars. And yes those really disappointing windows.
Your point is well taken that a company that has any concept of pleasing the passenger, not to mention charging them thousands of dollars to boot, should provide at a minimum clean windows, and well maintained equipment. That was why I commented in the thread with the B&O Train photos from the 50's on how wonderful the cars looked. You could tell that the company prided it self in the way the railroad was presented to the public. That is lost with a government system with limited funds and complex union rules.

At least some here see the benefits of having decent conditions, and often what some people will defend here is mediocre at best. I still contend that the tone is set from the top and if there is no follow though on complaints and conditions onboard things will remain barely adequate for the fares charged.

________________________________________________________________________________

______________________________________

"Ferroequineologist" Ferro is IRON, Equine as is a Horse, Ologist the study thereof!"

Remembering back to the years before Senatorial dispatchers, the Burlington Railroad operated trains between Chicago and Denver. The CZ (California Zephyr) departed Union Station Chicago at 2:30pm; while the Denver Zephyr departed at 6:00pm. The DZ arrived in Denver before 9:00am, as the CZ arrived midmorning, now that was high speed operations some 50 years previous and not capable in this more modern age.

Profits: The railroads handled the mail, even with the present day transporting of express packages and 4th class mail the cost ratio for Amtrak operations and the U.S. Post office looks better in both sets of accounting books. Why all the rule to limit what is progress and make our country less efficient than those of whom we are trying to compete?

April 1964 my Union Pacific City of everywhere train departed Chicago with 8 engines on the front, and 12 baggage cars filled with bulk class mail. The train had too 10 coach cars, two diners, a club car dome, and seven sleeper cars, now that is what you call, utilization!

Looking back and then to present day, the super-liner styling of passenger cars is rather bland when one looks to what was common in earlier decades. Even if operating at our lower speeds, would not TVG use something with an appearance of being streamlined, if only for P.R. to lure people to ride???

________________________________________________________________________________

________________________________

OH Yes, the Great Northern Ry. had two primary trains operating between Minneapolis and Portland/Seattle, that of the sleek Empire Builder, and the faster Western Star, it the only express freight train to have coaches, diner, and Pullman cars in the consist!

 

[rrdude]

Living now in Michigan and when riding the Amtrak from Kalamazoo to Chicago, round trip of course! As for added comfort to the wife and daughter traveling with me, I purchased Club Car reserved seats for 3.
Concern 1. Seating arrangement when traveling on the N.E. corridor, such Club car seating is wide seats and added leg room. This was not the fact on the car we rode, as all the Club car reserved seat were shoved quite tight forward allowing major space for some baggage items which did not pay the extra fare.

Concern 2. The seating arrangement was similar to that in standard coach, two adjoining seats on each side of the center aisle. Sadly, the reserved seating placed the wife three rows ahead and the daughter behind, as the man sleeping next to me kept curling up and using both seats for his better comfort whenever I got up to get us drinks or food. Again the seating of Club Car is at an extra fare and should by common reasoning be as well of added comfort and not less. Ultimately on our trip homeward we chose to sit in standard coach class cars as they had nice roomy seating.

Which trains did you ride? Lately, trains 364/365 (Blue Water service) have been operating with Superliners, and thus wouldn't have different business class vs. coach seating. During the winter, trains 350/355 will often run with Superliners, and thus, also will not have business class.

The other trains (351, 352, 353, and 354) run single-level equipment with a 14-seat business class section in half of the cafe car (as does 350/355 when it has single-level cars). These cars have 2+1 seating, not 2+2. It's possible there may have been some equipment substitution because the regular club-dinette was bad-ordered. If that was the case, you'd be due a refund of your accommodation charge (and the conductor should have informed you of such).

Plus, the "reserved" seating wouldn't place you or your family in any specific seats. If those seats were the only ones that were available, then that's just because the other seats were already taken when you boarded.

I "know" you are just trying to help, and explain the "realities" of Amtrak as it is today, but your reply comes across as an "excuse" for Amtrak, and a "that's the way it is, now just learn to live with it-kind of attitude."

I LOVE the idea of at least going to the K-zoo city commission, and getting it on record. There is about a 0 in 100 chance of anything happening. But what would it take? Purchase of two commercial grade power-washers, someone to schedule the 'volunteers' to do the work, or use work release of work-fare participants. X-number of trains per day, (prolly don't have to do the same train-set over and over on each different run)

I ***KNOW*** that power washers aren't the preferred method to clean windows, and maybe some jerk would hit the trigger and position it in the wrong place and splash a passenger, or put an eye out, or something else un-thought of.

But I still LIKE the idea. "Kalamazoo, MI, where Every Amtrak Train Gets A Clear View" or some such Mktg bulls*h*i*t.

It's silly, stoopid ideas like THIS, that make people REMEMBER their trip. Genius, just genius. I know what **I'M** doing when I retire. I'm gonna wash me some Amtrak trains, even if Amtrak "dun't" want me too......

 

[sunchaser]

I personally think there is no excuse for a train to be dirty inside. If it is cleaned properly at both ends of the route, and the cleanliness is maintained throughout the route it should be fine.

I understand the tendency to 'defend' Amtrak on the physical maintenance issues not being repaired, but some of them are such easy fixes that it almost seems like they are ignoring the problems.

We can always say it is lack of money, but is it possible there is a lack of caring on the part of those who are supposed to take care of such things?

I'm not trying to play the blame game, but it seems strange to me that there could be a lack caring or pride in what the train looks like or how it works.

 

[caravanman]

On my recent Amtrak tour, I resorted to cleaning my Zephyr windows myself. The windows on the left are my roomette, after a quick clean. You will see the dirt on the others, at Emmeryville, just before the train departs on its "scenic" trip through the Sierra Nevada and Rocky Mountains.

Yes, it is a lower level roomette..!

Mind You, they paint some sort of heat reflective yellow gunk onto the train windows in India.. it's like looking at the scenery through a sandstorm!

More pics and trip report: English rail hobo.. (following days links at top right of each page in red)

Cheers,

Eddie

 

[MikefromCrete]

I don't think you're ever going to see a corridor train washed enroute, it would take too much time and you probably couldn't do it for half the year in the northern climes. Washing the western long distance trains somewhere is a good idea, especially since seeing the scenery is one of the reasons people ride those trains. A good cleaning of the interiors of each train between runs is certainly a must, as well as the repair of small problems. Of course, there are always times of short turns due to delays, etc, but a really clean interior should be the goal.

 

[Larry H.]

I don't think you're ever going to see a corridor train washed enroute, it would take too much time and you probably couldn't do it for half the year in the northern climes. Washing the western long distance trains somewhere is a good idea, especially since seeing the scenery is one of the reasons people ride those trains. A good cleaning of the interiors of each train between runs is certainly a must, as well as the repair of small problems. Of course, there are always times of short turns due to delays, etc, but a really clean interior should be the goal.

Corridor trains probably don't fall in that need as long distance ones. But often the trains sitting in St. Louis for their return to Chicago are most filthy looking and don't create a favorable impression when boarded. I know it cost money. My feeling has always been that the public is paying for the service and deserve at least well maintained equipment for there hard earned money and support. It shows as had been said that the traveling public is not the highest priority to the operators of amtrak, they just juggle the trains back and forth and thing the riders should just be happy for what they get.

This in fairness is not only an Amtrak issue. In the days the railroads were trying purposely to discourage riders I often found filthy windows, torn and hanging by one or two hook curtains on the windows, surly crews, long delays, poor food quality and service. It helped bring about the end of rail travel. Josh, it almost sounds like todays standards.

 

[PerRock]

Alhough I highly doubt they would wash them mid-route; the most likely place for them to do so in Michigan would be Niles; as they have a bit more than just a station there.

peter

 

[goodnightjohnwayne]

I tried to check for the ticket stubs if I kept them, but we took the first train in the morning from Kzo. The car we rode was an Amfleet car, maybe a club/cafe car, the seating there being behind a curtain but the seats all 16 were scrunched quite tightly together; me being 6'6" made it near to impossible to sit, without putting my legs into aisle.
Sad that in this modern day with computers and science, the old manner of offering service to the traveler seems forgotten. Example was when in the 1960's riding the G.T.W. Maple Leaf train to Chicago and back to Battle Creek, the then club car seating was lavish leather recliner seats one on each side of the center aisle. That car was a dinner/club car, and when ordering food the waiter took the order and returned with it on a tray, giving service worthy the price of the added fare. This is not done that way on the Michigan trains, a service if provided might well add to the traveling patrons aboard those willing and well able to pay the higher price for s-e-r-v-i-c-e!

Sadly, all that matters now to management is putting numbers in seats and leaving the passengers to fend for themselves. Its a matter of want, if you want to offer service and operate a business, any business in a successful manner, then service to the customer MUST be the highest priority.

Sorry did not mean to preach!

I've never known Amtrak to alter the seat spacing in any of their equipment to cram in more passengers in the way that the airlines do? Is it hypothetically possible? Sure. The seats in Amfleet cars seem to be on rails, similar to an airliner. However, I've never seen it done before. I'm really not quite sure what you're describing, as there is no such thing as "Club" class outside of the Acela.

My advice to you is to ride coach. It sounds that by paying the additional fare you simply made yourself unhappy. Even on an Amfleet I corridor coach, there is plenty of legroom.

 

[goodnightjohnwayne]

This has always been a thorn in my side too. I have no compassion for those who constantly make excuses for trains that are tattered, beat up, torn seats, strewn trash bags everywhere, dirty corners in the bathrooms and other cars. And yes those really disappointing windows.

Actually, I've never seen any of the problem that you've described, or should I say "imagined."

The amazing thing is that I've never seen an Amfleet seat with a torn cover and that 30 year old cars are remarkable clean and show very little wear for their age.

As far as dirty windows, I'd challenge anyone to compare their own car's side windows to those of an Amtrak coach. In the middle of the winter, is your car dirty on the outside? Actually, I'd wager that the inside of an Amtrak coach is far cleaner and tidier than the interior of 99.9% of the personal automobiles on the highway.

 

[Larry H.]

This has always been a thorn in my side too. I have no compassion for those who constantly make excuses for trains that are tattered, beat up, torn seats, strewn trash bags everywhere, dirty corners in the bathrooms and other cars. And yes those really disappointing windows.

Actually, I've never seen any of the problem that you've described, or should I say "imagined."

The amazing thing is that I've never seen an Amfleet seat with a torn cover and that 30 year old cars are remarkable clean and show very little wear for their age.

As far as dirty windows, I'd challenge anyone to compare their own car's side windows to those of an Amtrak coach. In the middle of the winter, is your car dirty on the outside? Actually, I'd wager that the inside of an Amtrak coach is far cleaner and tidier than the interior of 99.9% of the personal automobiles on the highway.

Your comment hardly needs comments as its as far out as any I have seen. Even the most ardent amtrak supporter here will normally conclude that there are a lot of issues onboard and outside on may trains.

However since you insist.. Too bad I didn't take photos.

Last business class trip to chicago on the Saluki which was last year, the backs of many of the seats were ripped or torn exposing the insides of the cushion. The window curtains were hanging with half the connectors missing.

My first lakeshore trip back in the 80s had torn seats though out the dinner with cushions falling off the front of the benches. Trash bags dumped everywhere. On our last lakeshore trip the roomette I had the curtains to block the view in to the room neither lined up in a way which would allow for decent privacy. The light on the wall wouldn't work and the bulb fell out in my hand when I tired to turn in on. Oh yes, the first lakeshore trip on boarding the sleeper my room had muddy foot prints on top of the seat. My moms bedroom had rigged latches and everything rattle so loud you couldn't hear above it when the train was riding roughly. The bathroom door banged shut constantly due to a faulty latch keeping her awake. The diner had a table in the center of one section removed and it had boxes stacked three high instead. A lovely professional site for sure. Water dripped in the though the covers between the sleepers making the floor dangerously slippery.

The toilets on the CZ refused to work from Denver to California. The rooms had duct tape on all the cabinets and doors trying to keep them from banging.

Not to mention the numerous times the cars were either so hot or so cold as to be nearly unbearable, seemingly unrelated to outside temperatures.

Many cars have obvious crud along the walls of the rest rooms and up the walls.

The windows on the CZ both trips I took it out of Chicago had cloudy windows which detracted big time from the view. The dome on the Capitol Limited was so dirty you couldn't see though the front of it.

I could probably go on for pages as I am sure others could..

But as I said when I worked that you have to be able to see dirt in order to clean it and some just don't see it.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Residing down here in Texas on the TE route I totally agree about the poor condition of some of the cars in use! When the Eagles and CONO are runthrough trains as has been happening this past winter they are not properly cleaned in CHI which seems to have a rep for poor clean-up/maintaince.Lots of the trains Ive ridden have filthy windows including the Superliner Sight-Seer Lounge Cars. Several times,upon boarding Ive found trash and left items including food and empty drink cans under the roomette seats! While everyone knows that the Superliner cars are getting a little long in the tooth, to me its amazing that some of the Heritage Cars (ie diners) and the older AM-Can cars seem to be better kept than the newer Superliners, especially the IIs that havent yet been rehabbed!No excuse for seat backs that wont recline/raise ,lights burned out,bathrooms that dont work etc. etc.

Several members have commented on the grungy conditions in the diners and CCCs which I have also noticed which can directly be contributed to the cleaning crews and the OBS that fail to properly do their jobs! I dont fly anymore but in all honesty the airlines keep their planes in better condition/cleaner than Amtrak which is a disgrace, especially @ the prices Amtrak charges for the sleepers on most trains!I love trains and railroads but there is no excuse for the overall condition of most LD trains!The managers/suits need to get out of offices andride their trains more instead of hanging out in Beech Grove when they travel! We all need to let Amtrak know when we encounter unsatifactory conditions on Amtrak trains! My best examples re the posts where even OBS cant get sleepers to fold down or up, doors that dont stay closed and as others have said windows so filthy you cant see out @ all let alone take pics!