Policy change for loophole trips?

[MisterToad]

Yesterday evening I called to book the KCY to CBS loophole. The AGR agent informed me that it would be a 2 zone trip. I replied that since Kansas City and Columbus are in the same zone, shouldn't it be a 1 zone trip? She said that it used to be a 1 zone trip, but due to a change in policy, it's now considered a 2 zone trip. I asked when the policy changed, and she said, "Unfortunately, I can't tell you." I was thinking that the agent made up this policy on the spot, so I decided to employ the hang up and call back method. This morning when I called, the agent I spoke to again told me that there was a policy change, and the trip would be a 2 zone trip.

It seems possible for one agent to make up a new policy, but it seems unlikely to me that two agents would make up the same policy, so now I'm concerned that AGR really has changed its policy for loophole trips. Has anyone successfully booked a loophole trip in the last few days? I will probably still take the trip - 30,000 points in a bedroom is still a good deal, just not as good a deal as 20,000 points.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Yesterday evening I called to book the KCY to CBS loophole. The AGR agent informed me that it would be a 2 zone trip. I replied that since Kansas City and Columbus are in the same zone, shouldn't it be a 1 zone trip? She said that it used to be a 1 zone trip, but due to a change in policy, it's now considered a 2 zone trip. I asked when the policy changed, and she said, "Unfortunately, I can't tell you." I was thinking that the agent made up this policy on the spot, so I decided to employ the hang up and call back method. This morning when I called, the agent I spoke to again told me that there was a policy change, and the trip would be a 2 zone trip.
It seems possible for one agent to make up a new policy, but it seems unlikely to me that two agents would make up the same policy, so now I'm concerned that AGR really has changed its policy for loophole trips. Has anyone successfully booked a loophole trip in the last few days? I will probably still take the trip - 30,000 points in a bedroom is still a good deal, just not as good a deal as 20,000 points.

Hopefully this was AGRs version of an April fools joke! Several members have booked this loophole recently including one of our resident AGR gurus,

I have taken it myself, a great trip for sure! (you can actually go from KWD-KCY on the MORR in biz class,change to the SWC there on the loophole, or could??? ) There had had been mentions about spys on Flyertalk and wonder if the other loopholes on the AU list are endangered, I was planning one for summer and another for fallutilizing the 10% point rebate currently in effect! Think some of us need to call up AGR, speak with a Supervisor ASAP about this insidious and un-nerving development! Calling the_traveler, ship to shore, hopefully hes on dry land and can assist in this bad news matter! :unsure: :angry:

 

[the_traveler]

Say it ain't so!

​

 

[Ispolkom]

Yesterday I booked a one-zone AGR award Minot-Chicago-Washington-Slidell with absolutely no problem (except that bedrooms are already in short supply on the Empire Builder in November).

So if the KCY-CBS trip is now two zones, it's not a universal end to one-zone awards on trips that cross zone boundaries.

 

[AlanB]

Say it ain't so!

​

You didn't get enough rain up there already, so now you want to cry us a river? :lol:

 

[GG-1]

Say it ain't so!

​

You didn't get enough rain up there already, so now you want to cry us a river? :lol:

ROTFLOL, in the light rain this AM listening to 2 birds courting.

 

[jis]

Say it ain't so!

​

You didn't get enough rain up there already, so now you want to cry us a river? :lol:

ROTFLOL, in the light rain this AM listening to 2 birds courting.

Bright sunshine here for a change. Just finished planting seeds for spring flowers

 

[the_traveler]

Say it ain't so!

​

You didn't get enough rain up there already, so now you want to cry us a river? :lol:

ROTFLOL, in the light rain this AM listening to 2 birds courting.

Bright sunshine here for a change. Just finished planting seeds for spring flowers

Why do you think the tracks are flooded around KIN? :huh:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

But it is bright sunshine and dry with temps in the 60's and 70's for the next few days, so I hope the worst is over!

 

[IHC]

Yesterday evening I called to book the KCY to CBS loophole. The AGR agent informed me that it would be a 2 zone trip. I replied that since Kansas City and Columbus are in the same zone, shouldn't it be a 1 zone trip? She said that it used to be a 1 zone trip, but due to a change in policy, it's now considered a 2 zone trip. I asked when the policy changed, and she said, "Unfortunately, I can't tell you." I was thinking that the agent made up this policy on the spot, so I decided to employ the hang up and call back method. This morning when I called, the agent I spoke to again told me that there was a policy change, and the trip would be a 2 zone trip.
It seems possible for one agent to make up a new policy, but it seems unlikely to me that two agents would make up the same policy, so now I'm concerned that AGR really has changed its policy for loophole trips. Has anyone successfully booked a loophole trip in the last few days? I will probably still take the trip - 30,000 points in a bedroom is still a good deal, just not as good a deal as 20,000 points.

I say try calling back tomorrow (Saturday) and booking for one zone.

 

[the_traveler]

I say try calling back tomorrow (Saturday) and booking for one zone.

It wouldn't work! AGR is only open Monday to Friday!

 

[IHC]

I say try calling back tomorrow (Saturday) and booking for one zone.

It wouldn't work! AGR is only open Monday to Friday!

Oh bummer. You're right. Why did I think they was open Mon-Sat? :huh:

 

[Trogdor]

Someone on the inside told me a few days ago that AGR was close to making this policy change.

 

[BigBlueBuddha]

Yesterday evening I called to book the KCY to CBS loophole. The AGR agent informed me that it would be a 2 zone trip. I replied that since Kansas City and Columbus are in the same zone, shouldn't it be a 1 zone trip? She said that it used to be a 1 zone trip, but due to a change in policy, it's now considered a 2 zone trip.

From the AGR website, under the "Redeem" tab:

"Rewards are determined by the number of zones you travel across."

Oh well, maybe they'll be more generous with ways to earn points or increase the number of double, triple, etc. promotions.

 

[Guest]

Hopefully this was AGRs version of an April fools joke! Several members have booked this loophole recently including one of our resident AGR gurus,I have taken it myself, a great trip for sure! (you can actually go from KWD-KCY on the MORR in biz class,change to the SWC there on the loophole, or could??? ) There had had been mentions about spys on Flyertalk and wonder if the other loopholes on the AU list are endangered, I was planning one for summer and another for fallutilizing the 10% point rebate currently in effect! Think some of us need to call up AGR, speak with a Supervisor ASAP about this insidious and un-nerving development! Calling the_traveler, ship to shore, hopefully hes on dry land and can assist in this bad news matter! :unsure: :angry:

AGRinsider is exactly what I think is going on. This crap needs to be deleted to protect what we have left. The word loophole needs to be stricken from our vocabulary. The list and every thread that has ever mentioned loophole travel needs to be deleted.

Some folks say that Amtrak knows about these kinds of things and lets it slide since people that are crazy enough to do it would be big on promoting train travel. This is obviously not what is going on.

Mums the word on this type of travel (notice I didn't use the L word).

 

[the_traveler]

The AGR agent informed me that it would be a 2 zone trip.

From the AGR website, under the "Redeem" tab:

"Rewards are determined by the number of zones you travel across."

If you take that literally, it should be 3 zones!

1. KWD/KCY-ABQ is the midwest zone
   
2. ABQ-WPT is the western zone
   
3. WPT-CBS is the midwest zone
   

So you travel across 3 zones!

 

[Ispolkom]

It's not personal, it's just business. If this change has occurred, I expect that it is because enough people are taking advantage of these routes that it's in AGR's interest to make (or enforce) rules making them cost more. I think that Guest is mistaken. It's not the discussion of l@@pholes that causes changes like this, it's people taking them.

In any case I can recall a conversation with a clerk in January 2009 where he insisted that Atlanta-Washington-Chicago-Minot was a two-zone award, and I think I recall someone who last year was unable to book an AGR award Omaha-Sacramento-Portland-Columbus, so I'd like more data before I jump to any conclusions.

 

[RRrich]

I went over to FT - no mention of this topic Enough to make one wonder.

 

[Rumpled]

I went over to FT - no mention of this topic nor could I find the thread introducing Amtrak Insider.
Enough to make one wonder.

Musta had dust in your eyes or something. It's still on the front page

Introducing Amtrak Insider

Bummer on the policy change.

 

[RRrich]

I went over to FT - no mention of this topic nor could I find the thread introducing Amtrak Insider.
Enough to make one wonder.

Musta had dust in your eyes or something. It's still on the front page

Introducing Amtrak Insider

Bummer on the policy change.

Maybe it was tears :unsure:

 

[BigBlueBuddha]

Musta had dust in your eyes or something. It's still on the front pageIntroducing Amtrak Insider

Seems I've got dust in my eyes too. :lol:

I can't find any mention of you-know-what via that thread.

 

[Shanghai]

It was bound to happen!! I'm only sorry I wasn't able to take advantage of it!!

Let's see what AU clever minds will do next??

 

[Guest]

Musta had dust in your eyes or something. It's still on the front pageIntroducing Amtrak Insider

Seems I've got dust in my eyes too. :lol:

I can't find any mention of you-know-what via that thread.

discussion of certain topics don't have to be in that thread. this stuff is all in the archives of both boards. i doubt they just showed up only to say hello and field any comments. if they are taking an interest they are taking an interest in all of it. it is not that hard to use the search function.

 

[RRrich]

With the rull change I feel a lot less love for Amtrak then I did.

On the other hand, the new question is how can we benefit from the new rule change? What flaws can we find and take advantage of??

 

[Ispolkom]

Has there actually been a rule change? Have the AGR T&C actually changed?

I don't doubt that Mr. Toad was told there was, but I was able to book a one-zone award last Thursday. Given the wide variance in what AGR clerks think the rules are, I'd like more data points.

 

[PRR 60]

Has there actually been a rule change? Have the AGR T&C actually changed?
I don't doubt that Mr. Toad was told there was, but I was able to book a one-zone award last Thursday. Given the wide variance in what AGR clerks think the rules are, I'd like more data points.

I agree that we need a few more people denied before we can say goodbye to the fabled "loophole" trip. But, if they have gone the route of the "H571" discount code, it is not a huge surprise. There was just too much chatter. At some point someone would pick up on it.

As for Terms and Conditions, there are two sets: the public one which is viewable on the AGR website, and the far more detailed procedures that are provided to the AGR agents. The public T&C's provides very little "nuts and bolts" detail, and does not even address how the zone charges are determined. The internal procedures could easily be tweaked to count each zone in which travel takes place as a zone for determining the points required for a trip. That could be done with no change to the public T&C's.

Back to the "chatter" issue, I think one has to be aware that postings on sites like this and Flyertalk are indeed public. Were I in charge of a program like AGR, I would assign someone to monitor discussion boards to look for anything of interest - complaints, suggestions, and, of course, schemes to take advantage of program flaws. That recently happened at FT when postings stating how easy it was to call AGR and rebook prior reservations to take advantage of an AGR card points rebate promotion were very quickly followed by a change at AGR that made the practice much more difficult (coincidence? I think not). Just because AGR does not have an official membership presence here does not mean they do not take an occasional look around.

The "loopholes" are an interesting case. They have a very limited appeal: basically hardcore rail enthusiasts. Considering AGR membership in total (many of whom may rather have root canal than spend four straight nights on a train), they were probably not a huge volume threat. But they cost Amtrak revenue (not AGR - Amtrak), and they violated the intent of the zone system. The increase in the number of loophole postings, and even the listing of various loophole itineraries, may have caught someone's eye.

If, in fact, the loopholes are gone (and they may not be), my guess is that Amtrak saw postings here or elsewhere, and told AGR to tighten things up. It is one thing to brag about a plan to "beat the system" in private. It's another broadcast it such that everyone, including the people being harmed, can hear you.