Politicians Are Gearing Up To Kill Passenger Rail Projects

[dlagrua]

Ok, I've cleaned up/deleted some posts that got way off our focus of Amtrak and ventured into pure political discussion. While politics does play a role in Amtrak and it's discussions, please let's try to keep things focused on how politics affects Amtrak and not get into discussions about which parties did what and how one might be better or worse than the other.

If we cannot, then I may have no choice but to lock this topic permanently, something that I don't really want to do and something that I know the OP would prefer not to have happen.

Many thanks!

Despite the rhetoric, I can't see that either party will vote to defund Amtrak but you are correct, we should get the discussion centered about factual statements and bills that are being introduced that can affect passenger rail travel.

Rail passengers are but a small portion of the total travlers in the USA and it is important that our voice be heard. IMO what we can do is to instruct our employees (the politicans) to vote to continually support Amtrak as "Green Efficient Transportation". When there is talk of defunding or a bill is introduced that would be adverse to Amtrak lets post it here and start writing letters to our politicans. They must not forget that they work for us and that our taxes pay their salary

 

[WICT106]

Well, on the state level, it looks like it will be more difficult for those of us who like trains and want improved service. Here in WI, you can see the lack of support for the trains, and I have made efforts to convey how the opponents are mischaracterizing the service. One would think that Madison and environs would be excited about the new train service, but that is not the case - There are quite a few vocal skeptics and opponents, and only half of the population supports it. In the MKE, area, the support is even less - and even more misinformed. If one goes right down the WI Republican State ticket, every single candidate is opposed, and says that they see no need for it, no one rides trains, why should they pay for something that no one will ride that was forced upon us, etc., etc. Those of us who are pro-rail conservatives are in the minority. When I've told people on the streets I support the train, they ask, "Why ?"

We can imagine who will need and ride trains, but it is proving difficult to win over those who see otherwise. We have to do some organizing at the individual State levels, because the State legislators will be as ignorant and uninformed ( or worse ) as the Federal ones have been. Scott Walker has outlined part of his strategy: De-fund the WI train effort, or name a Transportation Secretary who isn't pro-rail, or (what he is starting to do ) tie the train up in court, with fights over the EIS ( or any excuse to tie the service up in court), or veto the spending when it comes up in the state budget.

It is proving difficult to garner additional public support for the train service, as those who are opposed do not see any use for it. Think about this: every single Republican running for State office is opposed to the Hiawatha extension to Madison. The next election has been turned into a referendum on rail, and the opponents are quite loud, misinformed - with significant public support. This is what we are facing. Get active, and get involved on the State level gang.

To the earlier poster: where are these pro-rail Republicans / conservatives ? I seem to be the only pro-rail conservative here in WI.

When you look at the candidates, and the political predictions for the next election, better believe that Amtrak and rail are on the chopping block.

 

[dlagrua]

To the earlier poster: where are these pro-rail Republicans / conservatives ? I seem to be the only pro-rail conservative here in WI.

and to the poster that made this comment please point out the pro-rail Democrats and their achievements helping Amtrak?. Some Democrats talk pro-rail but its all B.S. They haven't done anything to help Amtrak of late either. I cannot point to any stimulus funds that have been alloted to Amtrak, can you?.

Both parties are put there to make you feel as though you have a choice and each has its ignorant obiedient following. Fact is that you don't have a choice as big businesses, the banks, the financiers and the crooks on Wall Street run this country.

 

[stonesfan]

Its catch 22 whichever way you look at it.

Believe it or not, the biggest problem we face here, is that people have become 'wedded' to their cars regardless of the fact that theres generally a World class, if slightly pricey train service operating over most of the country. However, and purely hypothetical, if you were to force 15% of the country's motorists out of their cars and on to trains, the system simply wouldnt be able to cope and 'intercity' trains would run full and standing and still leave passengers on the platform. This is despite having an extremely intensive service.

So you manage to convince people nicely to leave their car at home, promise to build more trains and increase track capacity. Then comes the bad news, that prices, and govt subsidies will have to go up to build these new toys! Mr Motorist turned train rider then goes back to his car in disgust. And then you tell him you are going to build a nice new high speed line, so he can get from his large 4 bed house 50 miles out of Town to his place of work in just 20 minutes. He's right behind it, think of the extra time he can either spend in the office or at home with the kids. Then comes the bombshell, its gonna run 100 yards behind his back garden. So to hell with that idea.

I could be wrong here. But I get the feeling the US system is a bit 'too far gone' in both political and cultural terms to ever really get the cash injection it needs to really give the most influencial country in the world a railway is deserves. Theres some very positive aspects to US railroads, but whether the train will once again capture the public's imagination is open to debate.

 

[Ryan]

I cannot point to any stimulus funds that have been alloted to Amtrak, can you?.

You can't be serious, can you?

Amtrak has rebuilt stations and restored both Superliner and Amfleet cars with stimulus funding.

 

[PRR 60]

I cannot point to any stimulus funds that have been alloted to Amtrak, can you?.

You can't be serious, can you?

Amtrak has rebuilt stations and restored both Superliner and Amfleet cars with stimulus funding.

Amtrak received $1.3 billion in stimulus funding. Aviation also got $1.3 billion. Transit got $8.4 billion. Highway $27.5 billion.

 

[afigg]

and to the poster that made this comment please point out the pro-rail Democrats and their achievements helping Amtrak?. Some Democrats talk pro-rail but its all B.S. They haven't done anything to help Amtrak of late either. I cannot point to any stimulus funds that have been alloted to Amtrak, can you?.

I don't know if you are serious either. But in case you are, the last 21 months have been pretty good for Amtrak.

Amtrak got $1.3 billion directly from the stimulus package, which they have been busy spending on many backlog projects across the system besides the higher profile projects such as the refurbishment of the Wilmington DE station and the $105 million for the replacement of the Niantic River bridge in CT. Visible improvements have been the ROW clean-up, tree cutting, and repair along the NEC and the other tracks owned by Amtrak. And a bunch of Superliners and Amfleets in storage are being overhauled and returned to service. A long list of the projects completed or underway can be found on the Reports & Documents page at the Amtrak website.

Of the $8 billion of stimulus for HSIPR (High Speed and Intercity Passenger Rail), $4.5 billion was awarded in late January to corridor upgrades and projects that will directly benefit and expand in several places Amtrak service. That money is only now just starting to be spent on some of the projects. Ohio and Wisconsin may give their money back because we have campaign promises being made in a overheated election year, but it can be put to use for passenger rail elsewhere. Amtrak also benefited from some of the Tiger transit grants which went to freight and commuter rail improvements for lines used by Amtrak. Just have to remember that it takes years to get transit projects going and for the construction, so it will be several years before the improvements from the HSIPR and Tiger stimulus really start to take effect with expanded service and faster run times.

There are $2.3 billion of FY2010 HSIPR funds to be awarded which might be announced this week. Not nearly as much money as is needed to get serious about improved intercity passenger rail, but a lot more money than there was under the last administration. Even if a Republican controlled congress tries to put a squeeze on future passenger rail funding, the Obama administration is going to support rail and transit, so expect a lot of back and forth and hue and cry on it. I'm confident that we will see funding for HSIPR in the next 2 fiscal years, just not as much as it should be.

 

[dlagrua]

I guess that there was some stimulus spending as I remember a while back that Beach Grove was hiring. Yes they did restore a few dining cars. You'd have to admit though that the improvements have been pretty few. Rail cars are routinely rebuilt so that's really nothing new. Stations like the AutoTrain Sanford terminal were started way before stimulus was ever appropriated. When I've traveled I have not seen many new improvements or refab'd sleepers so I wish that Amtrak would post a list of all the projects that they were able to complete as a result of stimulus funding. It would be nice to know that Uncle Sam is at least doing something for passenger rail.

 

[PRR 60]

and to the poster that made this comment please point out the pro-rail Democrats and their achievements helping Amtrak?. Some Democrats talk pro-rail but its all B.S. They haven't done anything to help Amtrak of late either. I cannot point to any stimulus funds that have been alloted to Amtrak, can you?.

I don't know if you are serious either. But in case you are, the last 21 months have been pretty good for Amtrak.

Amtrak got $1.3 billion directly from the stimulus package, which they have been busy spending on many backlog projects across the system besides the higher profile projects such as the refurbishment of the Wilmington DE station and the $105 million for the replacement of the Niantic River bridge in CT. Visible improvements have been the ROW clean-up, tree cutting, and repair along the NEC and the other tracks owned by Amtrak. And a bunch of Superliners and Amfleets in storage are being overhauled and returned to service. A long list of the projects completed or underway can be found on the Reports & Documents page at the Amtrak website.

Of the $8 billion of stimulus for HSIPR (High Speed and Intercity Passenger Rail), $4.5 billion was awarded in late January to corridor upgrades and projects that will directly benefit and expand in several places Amtrak service. That money is only now just starting to be spent on some of the projects. Ohio and Wisconsin may give their money back because we have campaign promises being made in a overheated election year, but it can be put to use for passenger rail elsewhere. Amtrak also benefited from some of the Tiger transit grants which went to freight and commuter rail improvements for lines used by Amtrak. Just have to remember that it takes years to get transit projects going and for the construction, so it will be several years before the improvements from the HSIPR and Tiger stimulus really start to take effect with expanded service and faster run times.

There are $2.3 billion of FY2010 HSIPR funds to be awarded which might be announced this week. Not nearly as much money as is needed to get serious about improved intercity passenger rail, but a lot more money than there was under the last administration. Even if a Republican controlled congress tries to put a squeeze on future passenger rail funding, the Obama administration is going to support rail and transit, so expect a lot of back and forth and hue and cry on it. I'm confident that we will see funding for HSIPR in the next 2 fiscal years, just not as much as it should be.

Technically speaking, the High Speed Rail funding is not "stimulus" funding. Stimulus money was for quick injection projects, and HSR does not meet that criteria. Of course, with a few exceptions, it is not "high speed" either, but that's another issue.

 

[AlanB]

I guess that there was some stimulus spending as I remember a while back that Beach Grove was hiring. Yes they did restore a few dining cars. You'd have to admit though that the improvements have been pretty few. Rail cars are routinely rebuilt so that's really nothing new. Stations like the AutoTrain Sanford terminal were started way before stimulus was ever appropriated. When I've traveled I have not seen many new improvements or refab'd sleepers so I wish that Amtrak would post a list of all the projects that they were able to complete as a result of stimulus funding. It would be nice to know that Uncle Sam is at least doing something for passenger rail.

We're not talking about routine rebuilding of cars. We're talking about cars that were so badly wrecked that Amtrak couldn't afford to restore them. However, many of them have now been restored to service easing the strain on the system just a bit.

And Amtrak has a wonderful document on their website that details where they are spending every dime they got from the Stimulus. I haven't noticed a list of what's completed, but some of that can be gleaned from reading stories here and press releases.

 

[mercedeslove]

To the earlier poster: where are these pro-rail Republicans / conservatives ? I seem to be the only pro-rail conservative here in WI.

I cannot point to any stimulus funds that have been alloted to Amtrak, can you?.

Uhm where have you been for like the past two years? They got stimulus money and they did

Rome wasn't built over night.

I needed this laugh though, thank you.

 

[saxman]

Well, on the state level, it looks like it will be more difficult for those of us who like trains and want improved service. Here in WI, you can see the lack of support for the trains, and I have made efforts to convey how the opponents are mischaracterizing the service. One would think that Madison and environs would be excited about the new train service, but that is not the case - There are quite a few vocal skeptics and opponents, and only half of the population supports it. In the MKE, area, the support is even less - and even more misinformed. If one goes right down the WI Republican State ticket, every single candidate is opposed, and says that they see no need for it, no one rides trains, why should they pay for something that no one will ride that was forced upon us, etc., etc. Those of us who are pro-rail conservatives are in the minority. When I've told people on the streets I support the train, they ask, "Why ?"

We can imagine who will need and ride trains, but it is proving difficult to win over those who see otherwise. We have to do some organizing at the individual State levels, because the State legislators will be as ignorant and uninformed ( or worse ) as the Federal ones have been. Scott Walker has outlined part of his strategy: De-fund the WI train effort, or name a Transportation Secretary who isn't pro-rail, or (what he is starting to do ) tie the train up in court, with fights over the EIS ( or any excuse to tie the service up in court), or veto the spending when it comes up in the state budget.

It is proving difficult to garner additional public support for the train service, as those who are opposed do not see any use for it. Think about this: every single Republican running for State office is opposed to the Hiawatha extension to Madison. The next election has been turned into a referendum on rail, and the opponents are quite loud, misinformed - with significant public support. This is what we are facing. Get active, and get involved on the State level gang.

To the earlier poster: where are these pro-rail Republicans / conservatives ? I seem to be the only pro-rail conservative here in WI.

When you look at the candidates, and the political predictions for the next election, better believe that Amtrak and rail are on the chopping block.

You've probably already seen this, but here's a group of Wisconsin businesses forming a coalition in support of this train. WISPIRG

 

[WICT106]

You've probably already seen this, but here's a group of Wisconsin businesses forming a coalition in support of this train. WISPIRG

Only time will tell just how much influence WISPRIG and that coalition will have on the next Wisconsin Governor. Scott Walker has vowed to terminate the train, no matter how far along the project is under construction. Pointing out that each WI resident pays on the order of $ 360 for highways, while this service would be no more costly than $ 1.50 per resident, falls upon deaf ears in conservative circles. Same with pointing out that interest rates are low, and construction costs are low as well. What other options am I left with ?

*crosses fingers, hoping Walker is stymied in his efforts**

 

[hemitlit exceeding]

Maybe the stimulus money is written with hot checks, ever thought of that?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Maybe the stimulus money is written with hot checks, ever thought of that?

Then maybe we should start with those trillion dollar war debts. Ever think of that?

 

[WICT106]

Here's an update from the Wall Street Journal: Racing to build Midwest Rail Line. Still no indication as to how the route is going to survive a Scott Walker gubernatorial administration -- which is looking pretty likely. Wisconsin AU members, go to the Prorail.com webpage and make copies of the appropriate flyer for your area, then get out there and post them on community bulletin boards, supermarkets, public library bulletin boards, etc. Get out there are advocate for trains, guys !

 

[BigRedEO]

BREAKING - Wisconsin Governor quietly signs bill over the weekend advancing the High Speed Rail Line between Madison and Milwaukee!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704462704575590550329340266.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

[mfastx]

BREAKING - Wisconsin Governor quietly signs bill over the weekend advancing the High Speed Rail Line between Madison and Milwaukee!

Dodged THAT bullet. *wipes sweat off forehead*

 

[WICT106]

BREAKING - Wisconsin Governor quietly signs bill over the weekend advancing the High Speed Rail Line between Madison and Milwaukee!

Dodged THAT bullet. *wipes sweat off forehead*

Think again. Now the action will be to make certain the rail service gets built, and that Mr. Walker doesn't play any games with stalling the project in some way, or stalling it through a court injunction, or de-funding it. Walker can still keep the train from getting to Madison. Keep the pressure up!

 

[rtabern]

Let's hope that Walker can't un-do this like the article says... HOWEVER... I am EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED how this election turned out yesterday with our state now getting both a Republican senator and a Republican governor. I am sad to see Doyle and Feingold go... besides being rail supporters... I have interviewed both men several times when I worked in television news here in Milwaukee... and can say both were among the most genuine, family-centered people I have met. Walker, on the other hand, always came across as a "slick" politican... someone who always had his assistants and Blackberry at his side... always dodging directly answering the tough questions. He bragged about how he balanced the budget as Milwaukee County Executive... while our bridges and road were in ill-repair (just drive over the Hoan Bridge sometime and look at the bridge railings!) -- and important jobs with the county like Sheriff's Deputies... are not getting filled.

But, WISCONSIN... you get what you vote for... I hope you will enjoy the Metra line continuing to end in Kenosha instead of Milwaukee where it needs to go... and I hope you'll enjoy rickety old Horizon equipment with dirty windows going from CHI to MKE... instead of high speed state-of-the-art new trains cruising between our state's 2 biggest cities!!! Shame, Shame!!!

 

[Steve4031]

So what happens to the talgos if this doesn't go through? My god!! This country is going to fail if voters continue to be ignorant. The republicans talk about cutting spending. But trillions are spent On military stuff. And nothing that benefits the country.

 

[Kurn]

Well,Kasich won in Ohio,so the Cleveland-Cincinatti project is toast.And I think overall,Amtrak will be in serious trouble.There seems to be a mentality that says "I don't ride the train,so nobody else should".But I still think the 3C corrider was a good idea.As a truck driver of over 30 years,I can tell you I-71 is one of the worst ways to get anywhere.

 

[mercedeslove]

I was just coming here to see what the disaster of yesterdays election might mean for Amtrak. I guess it is going to be a lot worse than I thought. I am beyond upset that yesterday failed the way it did. Nothing good will come out of this. We can just hang in there until 2012 and save this country from the idiots who are going to destroy it.

For this in Ohio and Wis. sorry about the failure of your voters *hugs to all*

 

[BigRedEO]

I was just coming here to see what the disaster of yesterdays election might mean for Amtrak. I guess it is going to be a lot worse than I thought. I am beyond upset that yesterday failed the way it did. Nothing good will come out of this. We can just hang in there until 2012 and save this country from the idiots who are going to destroy it.

For this in Ohio and Wis. sorry about the failure of your voters *hugs to all*

I was really anticipating the 3C train. To be able to hop onboard a train and head to Columbus or Cinci for the weekend would have been so nice!

 

[Eric S]

Let's hope that Walker can't un-do this like the article says... HOWEVER... I am EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED how this election turned out yesterday with our state now getting both a Republican senator and a Republican governor. I am sad to see Doyle and Feingold go... besides being rail supporters... I have interviewed both men several times when I worked in television news here in Milwaukee... and can say both were among the most genuine, family-centered people I have met. Walker, on the other hand, always came across as a "slick" politican... someone who always had his assistants and Blackberry at his side... always dodging directly answering the tough questions. He bragged about how he balanced the budget as Milwaukee County Executive... while our bridges and road were in ill-repair (just drive over the Hoan Bridge sometime and look at the bridge railings!) -- and important jobs with the county like Sheriff's Deputies... are not getting filled.

But, WISCONSIN... you get what you vote for... I hope you will enjoy the Metra line continuing to end in Kenosha instead of Milwaukee where it needs to go... and I hope you'll enjoy rickety old Horizon equipment with dirty windows going from CHI to MKE... instead of high speed state-of-the-art new trains cruising between our state's 2 biggest cities!!! Shame, Shame!!!

Not only that, but Walker's party now controls both houses of the legislature as well. Sigh.