Politicians Are Gearing Up To Kill Passenger Rail Projects

[ALC Rail Writer]

This is absolutey outrageous. Wisconsin and Ohio, Kaisich is going to find no opposition besides the strings attached to it.

Sometimes I wonder if people get it. The federal government didn't just print money and give it to Ohio, for years we've paid taxes to the Fed and now the Fed is going to give some of that money back to create jobs and build infrastructure. That's our money! If Kaisich won't spend it on rail I expect him to come to my door and hand me and my mother the twenty two cents, our portion of the 400 million, as a refund. If he won't spend our money how we want it, then why should I be paying his salary?

Kaisich is a crook. He spent years making money on Wall Street and will now be stealing taxpayer money.

As a side note. Personally I don't like anyone blaming the voters. 48% of us voted FOR Strickland. Instead of blaming the voters on what has happened we need to do whatever we can to blue flag Kaisich and the like.

 

[Kurn]

This is absolutey outrageous. Wisconsin and Ohio, Kaisich is going to find no opposition besides the strings attached to it.

Sometimes I wonder if people get it. The federal government didn't just print money and give it to Ohio, for years we've paid taxes to the Fed and now the Fed is going to give some of that money back to create jobs and build infrastructure. That's our money! If Kaisich won't spend it on rail I expect him to come to my door and hand me and my mother the twenty two cents, our portion of the 400 million, as a refund. If he won't spend our money how we want it, then why should I be paying his salary?

Kaisich is a crook. He spent years making money on Wall Street and will now be stealing taxpayer money.

As a side note. Personally I don't like anyone blaming the voters. 48% of us voted FOR Strickland. Instead of blaming the voters on what has happened we need to do whatever we can to blue flag Kaisich and the like.

He'll be worse than Taft,who was the worst governor in Ohio history.

 

[dlagrua]

If you like who was elected or not the election has ended. A new cast of characters is now in place. The American people have spoken and partisan politics won't change this. Positive change might result if we all send emails to our politicans in support of passenger rail travel.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Positive change might result if we all send emails to our politicans in support of passenger rail travel.

Emails are good. Phone calls are better. Letters to the editor are better still. And meeting in person as a group is probably best. Which is why I would like to propose that we consider adding more of an advocacy aspect to AU, so that future generations of Americans will continue to have passenger rail options like we have now. If we work hard enough perhaps they'll even have more modern passenger trains like other countries have managed to build.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Getting media attention is the best way. Emails are ignored, phone calls only work en masse, protests are a last resort. I would welcome all of the AU members from Ohio to write letters on behalf of the 3C project to their local editors.

 

[George Harris]

I was just coming here to see what the disaster of yesterdays election might mean for Amtrak. I guess it is going to be a lot worse than I thought. I am beyond upset that yesterday failed the way it did. Nothing good will come out of this. We can just hang in there until 2012 and save this country from the idiots who are going to destroy it.

you really need to understand that there are many people that absolutely disagreee with you on the nature of the "idiots who are going to destroy" the country, and that has a lot to do with who got voted in or out. News flash: There are many that believe that the people that were sent down the road and quite a few others of similar mindset that managed to stay in, are the ones that were the "idiots who are going to destroy" the country. For these people, even if they were aware of and considered passenger rail improtant, there vote was driven by things they considered far more improtant than the survival of Amtrak. They were seeng basic freedoms in danger. Whether you agree or not is your privledge, but just because you think something does not make it either real or the only allowable view on a subject. As someone else said, "I feel that the results of this election were driven by things far, far greater than the flyspeck that is Amtrak." Recognize that truth.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

***Original Comments Removed***

Just keep in mind that if the topic strays too far from Amtrak the thread will be locked again.

 

[Kurn]

If any Ohio funds are used for Amtrak,under Kasich(R-Wall St.) they'll be gone.It really makes me angry about the 3C being gone.Since the election,Kasich(R-Fox News) has reinterated that at every opportunity.It would have been a pleasant way to get to Columbus,Dayton,or Cincinnati and avoid the horror of I-71.And air travel(besides being something I won't do),is not very convenient between these cities.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I'm sorry, I'm not following you there...

 

[Guest]

CNN's N.Y. to D.C., 96 mins., $117 billion

 

[WICT106]

Positive change might result if we all send emails to our politicans in support of passenger rail travel.

Emails are good. Phone calls are better. Letters to the editor are better still. And meeting in person as a group is probably best. Which is why I would like to propose that we consider adding more of an advocacy aspect to AU, so that future generations of Americans will continue to have passenger rail options like we have now. If we work hard enough perhaps they'll even have more modern passenger trains like other countries have managed to build.

Concur with your efforts to advocate.

 

[WICT106]

As I have already typed on the Milwaukee Journal's website: Disappointment does not come close to encompassing just how I feel about the current situaion. If fellow members were to go and read some of the comments on the MKE Journal's site, you could all see the misinformation, et al, that we are up against.

Edited to correct spelling errors.

 

[Kurn]

As I have alreaqdy typed on the ilwaukee Journal's website: Disappointment does not come close to encompassing just how I feel about the current situaion. If fellow members were to go and read some of the comments on the MKE Journal's site, you could all see the misinformation, et al, that we are up against.

It's the same thing in Ohio.Some of comments in the Akron Beacon Journal even implied that passenger rail advocates were traitors and such.This is gonna be like an 0-4-0 pulling a 100 car coal drag over Sandpatch....

 

[Nexis4Jersey]

Maybe we should push for privatizing the Intercity Services. They do it in parts Europe and Asia and it works out just fine , infact fares are lower and service is better.... I mean Amtrak would get so much more done if it were a private company. Would that be hard to do?

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

Maybe we should push for privatizing the Intercity Services. They do it in parts Europe and Asia and it works out just fine , infact fares are lower and service is better.... I mean Amtrak would get so much more done if it were a private company. Would that be hard to do?

I don't think it would work here, beyond the fact distances in Europe are smaller and the lack of reliable in roads in parts of Asia. Our culture is ingrained with air and car travel.

 

[George Harris]

Maybe we should push for privatizing the Intercity Services. They do it in parts Europe and Asia and it works out just fine , infact fares are lower and service is better.... I mean Amtrak would get so much more done if it were a private company. Would that be hard to do?

Read information from sources closer to the action on these things, and the picture is not always as pretty as you think. Not at all sure that the "fares are lower" in generally accurate. For some or most of these the privatization involves contracting the subsidy level, not generation of prifit.

 

[rhonderouleau]

When it comes to Government subsidies, NO subidized means of transportation ever has, nor never will make a true free enterprise profit! Even in the days of the RailRoad Robber barosn the Government basiclly picked up the tab to make them rich!

Those that live in areas where so called "private business" control the utitlities and other necessities of life dont realize just how much they are subsidized by tax breaks, free infrastrucxte etc. If people that actually pay the taxes were made aware of just how much it truely costs to subsidize the transportastion Industries (with the exception of the freight roads that do pay taxes and make profits!), they would get out the rope and torches and pitchforks and mob up! This is true, all you non-wealthy defenders of so called "private sector" need to to study up! Just saying!

Here's an idea. Why not pay people to rip up all the roads- thereby creating short term employment. We could also pull down all the carbon costly buildings - again more jobs. When all the infrastructure is gone, and people have to go back to living off the land, noone will be making money cause they'll be just growing what they need. Then there'll be no need for any taxes and it will be a perfect world again. "Just Saying".

 

[Shanghai]

Maybe we should push for privatizing the Intercity Services. They do it in parts Europe and Asia and it works out just fine , infact fares are lower and service is better.... I mean Amtrak would get so much more done if it were a private company. Would that be hard to do?

I'd like to know the "private passenger railroads" in Europe and Asia. I lived in these continents for 16 years and

did not know of any privatly owned and operated commerical railroads. I read an article a few years ago

stating that no passenger railroad business operates profitably. It would be interesting to invesigate his in greater depth.

Thanks.

 

[eagle628]

Maybe we should push for privatizing the Intercity Services. They do it in parts Europe and Asia and it works out just fine , infact fares are lower and service is better.... I mean Amtrak would get so much more done if it were a private company. Would that be hard to do?

I'd like to know the "private passenger railroads" in Europe and Asia. I lived in these continents for 16 years and

did not know of any privatly owned and operated commerical railroads. I read an article a few years ago

stating that no passenger railroad business operates profitably. It would be interesting to invesigate his in greater depth.

Thanks.

I imagine you could privatize the Northeast, California, and maybe the Cascades corridors, as well as the Auto Train (originally a private company), and they might survive, but beyond that, you'd be lucky if the trains lasted a year before the owners gave up trying to make a profit. Privatizing trains like the Sunset Limited or Cardinal would just be a disaster, those are two of the worst-performing trains in the system, you'd have to be completely mad to try and make a go of privately running services like that.

 

[jis]

I'd like to know the "private passenger railroads" in Europe and Asia. I lived in these continents for 16 years and

did not know of any privatly owned and operated commerical railroads.

Railroads that once upon a time were public are now privatized in some of those parts. For example JR East is now a private railroad with a dividend paying stock.

But there is certainly not a huge abundance of such outside of Japan in Asia.

I have no idea where people come up with these ideas about private railroads providing lower fare better service. The experience in the UK has been mixed. Attempts to privatize the infrastructure part of railroad was a complete and utter failure, and is now back in public hands. Privatization of train ops and equipment leasing has been a mixed bag, with some perceived successes. but people mostly forget that with the John Major privatization also came huge increases in subsidies across the board, which were written into conracts with the TOCs (Train Operating Companies) with a sliding scale of reducing subsidies over time. This has worked in some cases and failed miserably in other cases. For example what used to be GNER is now back in public hands. OTOH ScotRail with its subsidies from Scotland is indeed providing much much better service than Scotland has seen since the times of Beeching. But again big subsidies play a part in that success.

 

[Nexis4Jersey]

I'd like to know the "private passenger railroads" in Europe and Asia. I lived in these continents for 16 years and

did not know of any privatly owned and operated commerical railroads.

Railroads that once upon a time were public are now privatized in some of those parts. For example JR East is now a private railroad with a dividend paying stock.

But there is certainly not a huge abundance of such outside of Japan in Asia.

I have no idea where people come up with these ideas about private railroads providing lower fare better service. The experience in the UK has been mixed. Attempts to privatize the infrastructure part of railroad was a complete and utter failure, and is now back in public hands. Privatization of train ops and equipment leasing has been a mixed bag, with some perceived successes. but people mostly forget that with the John Major privatization also came huge increases in subsidies across the board, which were written into conracts with the TOCs (Train Operating Companies) with a sliding scale of reducing subsidies over time. This has worked in some cases and failed miserably in other cases. For example what used to be GNER is now back in public hands. OTOH ScotRail with its subsidies from Scotland is indeed providing much much better service than Scotland has seen since the times of Beeching. But again big subsidies play a part in that success.

Well i think it would only work in the Northeast. I think all the Commuter Railways / Amtrak Northeastern lines should be merged into one Company. RailJet Northeast , also CSX and NS should be merged also. It makes sense , it would make things easier in this region.

 

[Trogdor]

Well i think it would only work in the Northeast. I think all the Commuter Railways / Amtrak Northeastern lines should be merged into one Company. RailJet Northeast , also CSX and NS should be merged also. It makes sense , it would make things easier in this region.

CSX and NS are private corporations that compete against each other. Why should they merge? How would it "make things easier" out there?

Further, the commuter systems and Amtrak all have different government authorities running and funding them. I don't see how it would really be of any benefit to have VRE and MBTA merged into the same company "just because."

 

[George Harris]

Maybe we should push for privatizing the Intercity Services. They do it in parts Europe and Asia and it works out just fine , infact fares are lower and service is better.... I mean Amtrak would get so much more done if it were a private company. Would that be hard to do?

I'd like to know the "private passenger railroads" in Europe and Asia. I lived in these continents for 16 years and

did not know of any privatly owned and operated commerical railroads. I read an article a few years ago

stating that no passenger railroad business operates profitably. It would be interesting to invesigate his in greater depth.

Thanks.

I imagine you could privatize the Northeast, California, and maybe the Cascades corridors, as well as the Auto Train (originally a private company), and they might survive, but beyond that, you'd be lucky if the trains lasted a year before the owners gave up trying to make a profit. Privatizing trains like the Sunset Limited or Cardinal would just be a disaster, those are two of the worst-performing trains in the system, you'd have to be completely mad to try and make a go of privately running services like that.

Nope. The Northeast Corridor is a huge sinkhole for money. Amtrak does a lot of financial manipulation to keep it looking reasonable. This manipulation has been fairly thoroughly documented in the past. The LA to San Diego service probably makes an operating profit, that is takes in more money on a day to day basis than the cost of running trains on a day to day basis, but does not cover the total cost of the investments necessary for the service. The rest of the California (and Cascades trains) services are not doing that good.

The Autotrain is an Amtrak train because the private Autotrain company went bankrupt. Again, the operation covers its direct costs, as did the private company, but not enough more than that to cover the full cost of operating the business.

When thinking passenger train privatization, don't forget they were a private operation for the first 140 years of their existence in this country. It was when the private operation became unsustainable that the government stepped in. One of the main reasons it because unsustainable was the huge subsidies given to the competition in the form of roads, airports, etc.

If we had to pay the true cost of transportation in this country out of the fees paid for transportation services, travel of all kinds would be significantly more expensive for most, if not all of us.

 

[jis]

Well i think it would only work in the Northeast. I think all the Commuter Railways / Amtrak Northeastern lines should be merged into one Company. RailJet Northeast , also CSX and NS should be merged also. It makes sense , it would make things easier in this region.

CSX and NS are private corporations that compete against each other. Why should they merge? How would it "make things easier" out there?

Further, the commuter systems and Amtrak all have different government authorities running and funding them. I don't see how it would really be of any benefit to have VRE and MBTA merged into the same company "just because."

I think merging anything to make them viable is a nonsensical idea. What we need is more competition, and these bizarre ideas about merging stuff only creates monopolies. And monopolies behave exactly the same way whether they are run by a private outfit or the government.

Also privatization of existing entities that are undercapitalized and in a hole in their expense budget, is not going to automagically make more capital and expense budgets available to them. For that to happen something akin to what was done in the UK needs to happen, i.e. appropriate levels of subsidy and/or other means of capitalization, need to be guaranteed over a decade or so with a sliding scale of reducing such over that period.

 

[Kurn]

Never happen,but how about corporate sponsorship?We could have the PNC Limited,the Progressive Flyer,or the Exxon Express. LOL