Privatize food service?

[winterskigirl]

Should Amtrak privatize food service?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/outrageous-amtrak-employees-likely-stealing-between-4-and-7-million-dollars-per-year/

Seems like something needs to be done. Clearly, if this was a private enterprise then Amtrak would be out of the food services business. Thoughts anyone?

 

[Amtrak George]

Those of us who have followed passenger train service for a long time know that even when passenger trains were privately operated, dining cars lost money! It is just the nature of the beast. Food service needs to provided to the captive audience on trains in order for the service to survive....and I mean good quality food service.

Privatizing would be unfair to good Amtrak on board service employees and would not necessarily be better.

Certainly making things more efficient should be considered, but Mica is no friend of Amtrak and would like Amtrak to be dismantled. I fear that is the motive behind this.

 

[EB_OBS]

Notice the headline says employees are "likely" stealing but offers no proof. I've read the GAO report and the IGs and they both declare this horrendous amount of employee theft yet neither offers almost any proof.

I've witnessed employees caught stealing and they were all dismissed immediately and not a single one was reinstated after investigation. Theft is the easiest way to get rid of a union employee. If management can prove you stole, you're done.

 

[Guest]

theblaze.com doesn't seem like a good news source. Lots of bias there and not a lot of logic or big picture thinking. I agree that Amtrak's food service is p**** poor and its problems probably stem from the unions, but that article has no purpose other than to stir the pot.

 

[the_traveler]

To each his or her own, but I would rather have food available on a 50 hour train trip from CHI to the west coast! Note that even airlines lose money on food service!

 

[PRR 60]

To each his or her own, but I would rather have food available on a 50 hour train trip from CHI to the west coast! Note that even airlines lose money on food service!

Do you have a reference that shows that airlines lose money on food service?

 

[afigg]

With the Mica hearing, there has been quite a lot of fuss here and other forums on the amounts that Amtrak loses on food and beverage sales. But Amtrak is hardly the only business with food sales that loses money on food sales.

I did a google search for on profits/loss on hotel restaurants and came across an hotel trade magazine article about how the hotel restaurant does not always have to be a loss leader. In short, most hotels with an in-house restaurant with room service, provides breakfast, etc lose money on the restaurant, sometimes a lot of money. But they keep the restaurant because it is part of the services they provide in order to sell rooms, book conventions. When you stay at a nice mid-range hotel with an in-house restaurant, part of what you pay for the room likely goes to subsidize the restaurant and food services. Airlines, large office buildings with an in-house deli, hotels often don't break even on in-house or on-board food sales. That is just the way it works.

 

[Texan Eagle]

BTW that photo in the article of a train coach in shambles with waste strewn all across the floor, claimed to be an Amtrak train... what kind of train car is it? The window design seems like something I have never seen on Amtrak cars!

This photo-

Edit: Linked photo

Edit 2: Never mind, found it. The photo is taken from an article about abandoned Turboliner trains. How unbiased and accurate article this is... showing a photo of an abandoned train to drive their point that Amtrak trains suck.

 

[williamflemming]

Reminds me of that time they were considering making sleeping cars Marriott

 

[me_little_me]

Notice the headline says employees are "likely" stealing but offers no proof. I've read the GAO report and the IGs and they both declare this horrendous amount of employee theft yet neither offers almost any proof.

I've witnessed employees caught stealing and they were all dismissed immediately and not a single one was reinstated after investigation. Theft is the easiest way to get rid of a union employee. If management can prove you stole, you're done.

One problem is that in my experience, the server/LSA keeps ALL copies of the meal checkin spite of the fact that they are supposed to give the customer one copy. With all the copies, they can "add" things to the sleeper passengers' meals like desserts that were not taken and drinks that were not given. This can lead to cooking the books.

I have never seen a server or LSA give a copy of the meal ticket to a patron on any trip. I'm surprised Amtrak would not crack down on this since failure to provide them is a clear violation of policy and easy to see as well as an easy way of hiding the fact that items were not provided or that they were "re-sold" to a paying customer.

From the Standards Manual (page 8-179 area)

Meal Checks Consist of Three Parts

• Top - LSA’s copy.

• Middle - Customer’s record of transaction.

• Bottom - Chef’s copy.

 

All customers (Sleeper, Coach and Employee)

are to be provided with the middle copy of the

meal check.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

Notice the headline says employees are "likely" stealing but offers no proof. I've read the GAO report and the IGs and they both declare this horrendous amount of employee theft yet neither offers almost any proof.

I've witnessed employees caught stealing and they were all dismissed immediately and not a single one was reinstated after investigation. Theft is the easiest way to get rid of a union employee. If management can prove you stole, you're done.

One problem is that in my experience, the server/LSA keeps ALL copies of the meal checkin spite of the fact that they are supposed to give the customer one copy. With all the copies, they can "add" things to the sleeper passengers' meals like desserts that were not taken and drinks that were not given. This can lead to cooking the books.

I have never seen a server or LSA give a copy of the meal ticket to a patron on any trip. I'm surprised Amtrak would not crack down on this since failure to provide them is a clear violation of policy and easy to see as well as an easy way of hiding the fact that items were not provided or that they were "re-sold" to a paying customer.

From the Standards Manual (page 8-179 area)

Meal Checks Consist of Three Parts

• Top - LSA's copy.

• Middle - Customer's record of transaction.

• Bottom - Chef's copy.

 

All customers (Sleeper, Coach and Employee)

are to be provided with the middle copy of the

meal check.

I wonder if customer's know they're entitled to have the receipt. Perhaps they should start asking for them directly. We'll see if they are given.

 

[Ispolkom]

One problem is that in my experience, the server/LSA keeps ALL copies of the meal checkin spite of the fact that they are supposed to give the customer one copy.

That has not been my experience. I usually get the customer copy, perhaps 80% of the time in the last year. I'm not really sure of the exact figure, because I always leave the slip on the table. Doesn't do me any good.

I will admit that I've noticed receiving it more in the last 18-24 months, along with an insistence on signing with black ink. That part I don't really get.

 

[pebbleworm]

I noticed a definite decline in food and service quality on my two trips on the Zephyr in July. I've taken Amtrak a lot, but one was the worst ever bar none and the second way down at the bad end of the spectrum. Has Amtrak changed some procedures? One diner was basically dysfunctional for the whole trip, and the second the food just was not very good or well prepared at all.

 

[Nathanael]

One problem is that in my experience, the server/LSA keeps ALL copies of the meal checkin spite of the fact that they are supposed to give the customer one copy. With all the copies, they can "add" things to the sleeper passengers' meals like desserts that were not taken and drinks that were not given. This can lead to cooking the books.

I have never seen a server or LSA give a copy of the meal ticket to a patron on any trip. I'm surprised Amtrak would not crack down on this since failure to provide them is a clear violation of policy and easy to see as well as an easy way of hiding the fact that items were not provided or that they were "re-sold" to a paying customer.

I received my meal receipts on my last trip (well-run diner, I guess....)

Anyway, Amtrak is currently implementing electronic point-of-sale accounting to eliminate all this paperwork and much of the opportunity for potential fraud. Apparently it's slow going but they're doing it.

Privatization is a stupid idea; it would just mean one more layer of middle management (the private company's management) sucking up money, and preparing/serving food on a moving train is a specialty which nobody in the US but Amtrak knows how to do any more. (Amtrak does subcontract to get the ingredients provided and stocked -- to Aramark I think??)

Food on a train is a loss leader which sells, among other things, very expensive first class tickets. If the trains are fast enough that the trips are short enough that the passengers don't demand food, then Amtrak doesn't provide food service. So if you really want to reduce the costs of food service, *speed up the trains*.

This is actually true of most of the costs of Amtrak; speed up the trains and you need fewer trainsets to run the same number of trips, and fewer staff -- and you get more passengers and can charge more. Speed up the trains.

 

[the_traveler]

1344208404[/url]' post='385254']

1344207163[/url]' post='385250']To each his or her own, but I would rather have food available on a 50 hour train trip from CHI to the west coast! Note that even airlines lose money on food service!

Do you have a reference that shows that airlines lose money on food service?

I admit I don't have an actual reference with full figures, but I do remember a news story a few years ago about how one specific airline (I forget which) reduced their salads by 1 tomato would save them $xxx MiLLIONS a year in food costs! That sounds like they're trying to reduce their food loses! And why don't airlines serve free meals to all coach passengers anymore - if it makes a profit?

 

[winterskigirl]

Here's another story. This time, from the left learning New York Times basically stating the same. Amtrak food services is costing taxpayers millions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/03/us/politics/amtrak-lost-834-million-on-food-in-last-decade-audit-finds.html

I was curious about the huge losses which is why I initially posted this topic. It's not good that since 1981 Congress has required Amtrak to break even and they never have. Guess there aren't any easy solutions.

 

[MikeM]

One passing thought -- how does "food service" get credit for meals eaten by sleeper car passengers? Is it a lump sum? Based on menu price? Cynically, everyone talks about how much revenue you get from sleepers, but the bulk of the diner patrons in my experience tends to be sleeper passengers, at least on longer trains. Does anyone really think premium passengers would continue to ride the train (present company excepted)if the dining options were limited to vending machines? Or would the fares for sleepers collapse and the next hearing we'd be having is on the losses on sleepers?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

BTW that photo in the article of a train coach in shambles with waste strewn all across the floor, claimed to be an Amtrak train... what kind of train car is it? The window design seems like something I have never seen on Amtrak cars!

This photo-

Edit: Linked photo

Edit 2: Never mind, found it. The photo is taken from an article about abandoned Turboliner trains. How unbiased and accurate article this is... showing a photo of an abandoned train to drive their point that Amtrak trains suck.

I agree. Totally unrealistic. They even removed seat cushuning. The guy that wrote this article should take an Amtrak.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

When they say food are they including whatever Amtrak sels in Snack cars?

I honestly cant see how Amtrak loses money on those. People buy em in bunches, in every train that has cafe cars.

 

[ChrisJ]

I noticed a definite decline in food and service quality on my two trips on the Zephyr in July. I've taken Amtrak a lot, but one was the worst ever bar none and the second way down at the bad end of the spectrum. Has Amtrak changed some procedures? One diner was basically dysfunctional for the whole trip, and the second the food just was not very good or well prepared at all.

Well, I also had two Zephyr trips in July, and found the service and the food to be quite good. No decline over the past 3 years, in my experience. But, as they say, "your mileage may vary."

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I noticed a definite decline in food and service quality on my two trips on the Zephyr in July. I've taken Amtrak a lot, but one was the worst ever bar none and the second way down at the bad end of the spectrum. Has Amtrak changed some procedures? One diner was basically dysfunctional for the whole trip, and the second the food just was not very good or well prepared at all.

Well, I also had two Zephyr trips in July, and found the service and the food to be quite good. No decline over the past 3 years, in my experience. But, as they say, "your mileage may vary."

On which dates did you guys take the CZ? Where to where?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

BTW that photo in the article of a train coach in shambles with waste strewn all across the floor, claimed to be an Amtrak train... what kind of train car is it? The window design seems like something I have never seen on Amtrak cars!

This photo-

Edit: Linked photo

Edit 2: Never mind, found it. The photo is taken from an article about abandoned Turboliner trains. How unbiased and accurate article this is... showing a photo of an abandoned train to drive their point that Amtrak trains suck.

I agree. Totally unrealistic. They even removed seat cushuning. The guy that wrote this article should take an Amtrak.

It's not a guy. She's Erica Ritz from The Blaze. What is "The Blaze" you ask? So far as I can tell it appears to be some sort of hyper-partisan opinion site. That would explain the bogus photographs that don't look anything like Amtrak's current LD product. I have no idea if Ms. Ritz has ever ridden Amtrak, although it certainly doesn't appear that she has. In any case I would sincerely doubt firsthand knowledge would have impacted Ms. Ritz's ideologically driven narrative in any substantial sense.

Here's another story. This time, from the left learning New York Times basically stating the same. Amtrak food services is costing taxpayers millions. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/03/us/politics/amtrak-lost-834-million-on-food-in-last-decade-audit-finds.html I was curious about the huge losses which is why I initially posted this topic. It's not good that since 1981 Congress has required Amtrak to break even and they never have. Guess there aren't any easy solutions.

Please keep in mind that this is an international forum and that the New York Times leans to the right of many foreign papers. The easy "solution" is the one being proposed by John Mica (R-FL 7th District). Namely, get the government out of the passenger rail business. The current focus on curtailing future food service is the next step in the delivery of the poison pill that some hope will eventually bring down the beast from within. I'm not exactly against privatizing the food service process myself, in fact I think Amtrak's current food service is already worse than most private entities.

However, I remain skeptical that John Mica is focusing on Amtrak out of a good faith effort to balance the budget. If he really cares about the federal budget you'd think he'd be holding hearings on expenditures that total hundreds of billions per year instead of hearings over losses that struggle to reach a hundred million in any given year. Don't get me wrong, that's still a lot of money, but it's not where a good faith effort to balance the budget would likely begin.

Back when passenger rail service was still privately run on board food service was seen as a critical component for loyal ridership. As food service was hacked and slashed passenger numbers began to plummet. I don't think anyone wants to return to the days when passenger rail services were at the mercy of a private market that had no qualms with trashing long lived service standards for short term gains.

I know I certainly don't want to see what happened to Mexico's passenger trains happen here in the US. Although I've never heard Mica explain why he doesn't think that will happen to us if we follow the same path back to privatization. Maybe it's simply never occurred to him. Or maybe he just doesn't care what happens so long as it's no longer provided by the government. In any case Mr. Mica has done a surprisingly poor job of explaining in objective terms why Amtrak of all services should be at the forefront of the budgetary focus.

 

[TVRM610]

Notice the headline says employees are "likely" stealing but offers no proof. I've read the GAO report and the IGs and they both declare this horrendous amount of employee theft yet neither offers almost any proof.

I've witnessed employees caught stealing and they were all dismissed immediately and not a single one was reinstated after investigation. Theft is the easiest way to get rid of a union employee. If management can prove you stole, you're done.

One problem is that in my experience, the server/LSA keeps ALL copies of the meal checkin spite of the fact that they are supposed to give the customer one copy. With all the copies, they can "add" things to the sleeper passengers' meals like desserts that were not taken and drinks that were not given. This can lead to cooking the books.

I have never seen a server or LSA give a copy of the meal ticket to a patron on any trip. I'm surprised Amtrak would not crack down on this since failure to provide them is a clear violation of policy and easy to see as well as an easy way of hiding the fact that items were not provided or that they were "re-sold" to a paying customer.

From the Standards Manual (page 8-179 area)

Meal Checks Consist of Three Parts

• Top - LSA’s copy.

• Middle - Customer’s record of transaction.

• Bottom - Chef’s copy.

 

All customers (Sleeper, Coach and Employee)

are to be provided with the middle copy of the

meal check.

I actually collect my receipts (yes I'm one of THOSE guys). Why would you make such a claim? Whenever I have paid for my meal I have ALWAYS been given my receipt. When I'm in sleeper, there are times when I have had to ask for it, but I hardly think anyone was trying to pull a fast one on me.

Also, It's not like the server can add up lots of extra items on a sleeper ticket, it's really just desserts. And only a few sleeper passengers skip desserts so I can't imagine that even if this was the case that it could add up to any substantial loss.

 

[jis]

Adding anything to a sleeper passengers checks that they were already entitled to should have zero effect on profitability of food service since those items that the sleeper passenger was entitled to is presumably already paid for out of the cost of meals transferred from the Sleeper ticket account to the F&B account.

 

[me_little_me]

One problem is that in my experience, the server/LSA keeps ALL copies of the meal checkin spite of the fact that they are supposed to give the customer one copy. With all the copies, they can "add" things to the sleeper passengers' meals like desserts that were not taken and drinks that were not given. This can lead to cooking the books.

I have never seen a server or LSA give a copy of the meal ticket to a patron on any trip. I'm surprised Amtrak would not crack down on this since failure to provide them is a clear violation of policy and easy to see as well as an easy way of hiding the fact that items were not provided or that they were "re-sold" to a paying customer.

From the Standards Manual (page 8-179 area)

Meal Checks Consist of Three Parts

• Top - LSA's copy.

• Middle - Customer's record of transaction.

• Bottom - Chef's copy.

 

All customers (Sleeper, Coach and Employee)

are to be provided with the middle copy of the

meal check.

I actually collect my receipts (yes I'm one of THOSE guys). Why would you make such a claim? Whenever I have paid for my meal I have ALWAYS been given my receipt. When I'm in sleeper, there are times when I have had to ask for it, but I hardly think anyone was trying to pull a fast one on me.

Also, It's not like the server can add up lots of extra items on a sleeper ticket, it's really just desserts. And only a few sleeper passengers skip desserts so I can't imagine that even if this was the case that it could add up to any substantial loss.

I make the claim because I have never been offered a copy nor ever seen one offered as I mentioned.

I have been hesitant to say anything to them thinking they might get offended. When do you take it if not offered? As soon as you sign it? At the end of the meal? From my memory, they take them as soon as you sign it and you never see it again.