Public transit, rail to get $10 billion in bailout funds

[jcl653]

The New York Times reported on Thursday that the second installment of the economic recovery package includes $10 billion in funding for public transit and rail infrastructure. Has anyone heard or read details about how this money will be spent, and how much of the money Amtrak may see?

Graphic: Divvying Up the $825 Billion

Article: Senate Releases Second Portion of Bailout Fund

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Bailout funds?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

If the purpose of a bailout is to fund agencies who want to maintain the current levels of service in spite of costs not staying aligned with revenues, I wouldn't expect Amtrak to be the primary beneficiary, as I don't remember hearing about Amtrak having major financial problems lately the way the New York MTA, the MBTA, etc are having problems.

 

[battalion51]

Looks fairly solid to me. The question in my mind is how will these funds be divided up, and what will the results have to be. Many of these public transit projects don't come at a low cost. In 2003 dollars the South Florida Double Tracking project cost over $300 million. Full details from the Tri-Rail website.

This $333.8 million project included the installation of 43.5 miles of second mainline track; upgrades to the existing signal system; construction of 11 new bridges; replacement and/or rehabilitation of 13 bridges; modification and renovation of 10 stations; acquisition of five locomotives and two cab cars, as well as enhancements to grade crossing - - providing full closure at all 70 grade crossings.

So with the need for major high-speed rail and/or double tracking projects, how will this money be spent?

 

[jcl653]

Bailout funds?

I guess I should have used "fiscal recovery," not "bailout."

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Bailout funds?

I guess I should have used "fiscal recovery," not "bailout."

Or stimulus. No biggy.

 

[sportbiker]

Progressive Railroading is reporting Amtrak is up for $1.1b, while Reuters implies the money is all for the northeast corridor. Sigh. It's always the northeast corridor.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Wait wait wait-- since when is the NY MTA having issues?

 

[access bob]

Bailout funds?

drop in the bucket

Bob

 

[John Bredin]

Wait wait wait-- since when is the NY MTA having issues?

I'd call planning to cut some subway, LIRR, and bus service, in addition to merely raising fares (as the CTA did recently), "having issues."

The proposed service reductions (and fare increases).

The hearings on the plan.

 

[AlanB]

Wait wait wait-- since when is the NY MTA having issues?

I'd call planning to cut some subway, LIRR, and bus service, in addition to merely raising fares (as the CTA did recently), "having issues."

The proposed service reductions (and fare increases).

The hearings on the plan.

Yes, the MTA is having huge fiscal issues right now. They're hoping for some help from Albany, either in the form of more direct funding (which they should be getting anyhow, since ALB hasn't increased their funding of the MTA in like 5 or more years, even though the cost of everything has gone up and the politicians up in ALB have these grand dreams for the MTA), or via tolls on the East River bridges and payroll taxes and other things. Otherwise the alternative is drastic cuts in service and almost doubling the base fare from $2 to $4.

They first started sounding the alarm bell maybe 3 or 4 months ago.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I move to New York in two weeks.

I shall invest in more walking shoes.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Not a very pleasant place to walk, according to what I see on the news, even disastrously cold and snow/ice. It's cold enough down here near Orlando, with expected lows tomorrow morning in the mid-upper 30's (yeah, I know, springtime weather up north, but for us, normal low would be about 47).

 

[transit54]

Not a very pleasant place to walk, according to what I see on the news, even disastrously cold and snow/ice. It's cold enough down here near Orlando, with expected lows tomorrow morning in the mid-upper 30's (yeah, I know, springtime weather up north, but for us, normal low would be about 47).

New York? New York is a balmy 10 degrees right now!

It's -9 right now outside here in Burlington! I woke up this morning and it was -17. Now that's cold.

 

[jackal]

Oh, quit yer belly-achin'!

It was -30 five days ago.

Of course, last night, the low was 44.

We're warmer than Orlando?! I think that might be a record!!

 

[sky12065]

Oh, quit yer belly-achin'!
It was -30 five days ago.

Of course, last night, the low was 44.

We're warmer than Orlando?! I think that might be a record!!

I was about to say that it's around 0 to -5 degrees here as I type this message, but after reading the last couple of posts I'll keep my 0 to -5 degrees! Burrrr!

Jackal, were you able to get your taxi started 5 days ago so you could go looking for business in Vancouver? :lol:

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Progressive Railroading is reporting Amtrak is up for $1.1b, while Reuters implies the money is all for the northeast corridor. Sigh. It's always the northeast corridor.

I think part of the problem is that this current spending spree probably has too much of a short term nature to do anything else given what Amtrak has been planning for. Though why Amtrak couldn't have already gotten a proposal from Bombardier for the single level rolling stock they asked Congress to pay for, I'm not sure. On the other hand, with the exception of some of the baggage cars, that rolling stock is probably all intended for trains that serve NYP, which is more or less NEC.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

$3B may go for the 2nd Hudson rail tunnel alone...

NYT story

 

[Guest_Birdy_*]

Progressive Railroading is reporting Amtrak is up for $1.1b, while Reuters implies the money is all for the northeast corridor. Sigh. It's always the northeast corridor.

I think part of the problem is that this current spending spree probably has too much of a short term nature to do anything else given what Amtrak has been planning for. Though why Amtrak couldn't have already gotten a proposal from Bombardier for the single level rolling stock they asked Congress to pay for, I'm not sure. On the other hand, with the exception of some of the baggage cars, that rolling stock is probably all intended for trains that serve NYP, which is more or less NEC.

I'm afraid you are right---too short-term. I'm with you on the Amtrak rolling stock, too. Thirty or forty new cars with locomotives would make a huge difference in the system. At times like these when everything comes to a stand still because of weather, RR is the only way to go.

Congressional Demos are saying there is too much tax cut and not enough infrastructure in the bill, so there is hope.

Kind of Ironic given the symbolic significance of the train to the inauguration.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Congressional Demos are saying there is too much tax cut and not enough infrastructure in the bill, so there is hope.

The other interesting question, though, is how much of that infrastructure requires construction workers working outdoors physically building stuff, and how many workers do we really have who can deal with that? There are plenty of people who can do office jobs whose bodies are not really rugged enough for that type of work. I have read that when the Big Dig was going on in Boston, there was more than enough for work anyone who wanted to do skilled physical labor on that project, and lots of opportunities to learn on the job.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Well, the little pansies are gonna have to make themselves rugged enough. People don't do enough honest work around here. All the unemployed whitecollar fluffballs getting some honest work for a change would be a good thing.

 

[Neil_M]

Well, the little pansies are gonna have to make themselves rugged enough. People don't do enough honest work around here. All the unemployed whitecollar fluffballs getting some honest work for a change would be a good thing.

You volunteering then?!

 

[birdy]

Congressional Demos are saying there is too much tax cut and not enough infrastructure in the bill, so there is hope.

The other interesting question, though, is how much of that infrastructure requires construction workers working outdoors physically building stuff, and how many workers do we really have who can deal with that? There are plenty of people who can do office jobs whose bodies are not really rugged enough for that type of work. I have read that when the Big Dig was going on in Boston, there was more than enough for work anyone who wanted to do skilled physical labor on that project, and lots of opportunities to learn on the job.

Well, I think its important to be up front that these would be public investment, not make work projects. The sad fact is, that our economy has been distorted away from heavy industry to the financial sector. When GE capital is the biggest part of GE, something is out of kilter. The wrenching adjustment back has to be made. I don't want the government to stand in the way of that.

Maybe some kind of explicit make work projects will have to be done for these white collar workers. But the rail projects aren't all things to all people and they won't be make work for white collars.

The real value is catching up for 30 years worth of infrastructure investment that hasn't been done. These investments have real value and offer real returns for decades after they are built. In the case of RR there are important network effects that hard to measure, but are nevertheless there, and valuable.

 

[frj1983]

Congressional Demos are saying there is too much tax cut and not enough infrastructure in the bill, so there is hope.

The other interesting question, though, is how much of that infrastructure requires construction workers working outdoors physically building stuff, and how many workers do we really have who can deal with that? There are plenty of people who can do office jobs whose bodies are not really rugged enough for that type of work. I have read that when the Big Dig was going on in Boston, there was more than enough for work anyone who wanted to do skilled physical labor on that project, and lots of opportunities to learn on the job.

Joel,

You should see the number of construction workers taking my Metra train in the morning to jobs in downtown Chicago (most of the work outside)...they don't strike me as being pansies!

 

[GORD]

Congressional Demos are saying there is too much tax cut and not enough infrastructure in the bill, so there is hope.

The other interesting question, though, is how much of that infrastructure requires construction workers working outdoors physically building stuff, and how many workers do we really have who can deal with that? There are plenty of people who can do office jobs whose bodies are not really rugged enough for that type of work. I have read that when the Big Dig was going on in Boston, there was more than enough for work anyone who wanted to do skilled physical labor on that project, and lots of opportunities to learn on the job.

Well, I think its important to be up front that these would be public investment, not make work projects. The sad fact is, that our economy has been distorted away from heavy industry to the financial sector. When GE capital is the biggest part of GE, something is out of kilter. The wrenching adjustment back has to be made. I don't want the government to stand in the way of that.

Maybe some kind of explicit make work projects will have to be done for these white collar workers. But the rail projects aren't all things to all people and they won't be make work for white collars.

The real value is catching up for 30 years worth of infrastructure investment that hasn't been done. These investments have real value and offer real returns for decades after they are built. In the case of RR there are important network effects that hard to measure, but are nevertheless there, and valuable.

Funny,I thought rail projects required large numbers of white collar workers, planners, engineers, accountants, lawyers, environmental specialists, managers, supervisors, consultants, salespeople from suppliers... Somehow I don't think I'm the only guy making a living off white collar, rail consulting, nyuk, nyuk.

Gord