Racism on a Train? No!

Shop deals on ebay
shop deals on amazon
Advertise with us
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Ebony Batiste

Guest
It seems as though the closer towards the midwest my family of 4 went, the more racism we encountered. Coming from Los Angeles, and having a L.A. mentallity which is that money talks, I was nieve in thinking that if I flashed a little money around, that would get me respect and preferencial treatment on a train. In L.A., they don't care that I'm Black. As long as I have money to pay for dinner at the Stinking Rose, or VIP Laker tickets, who cares right? Wrong. I found that speaking in "Proper English" while attempting to sound educated meant nothing when attempting to upgrade our train room coming home. One of the workers kept asking for proof that I belonged in a room and not where the seated passengers stayed. There was a classist attitude between the passengers who had rooms and the seated passengers who had no access to showers for the 2 or 3 day journey. It was a different world in the back of the train.
 
If an Amtrak employee repeatedly challenged your right to be in the sleeper, you should take his name and write a complaint letter. Most attendants usually learn the faces of all of the people in the car, so this should not be necessary. As a white person, I have encountered rude, incompetent servicee on Amtrak on several occassions. Many others in this forum have too.

Rude, incompetent service for any reason should not be excused nor tolerated. If you did not get the employees name, you can still provide the dates of travel and the train that you traveled on in order to make an effective complaint. If possible, provide room and car numbers. If you do not have this information, you could describe the location of your accomodation. For example, the sleeper next to the diner. Or the sleeper two cars in front of the diner, exc. Amtrak can use these details to track down the employees involved and take corrective action. I am truly sorry you experiencce treatment like this. I work in the Chicago school system, which is predominately black, and have had many enjoyable, rewarding experiences. My first two years of teaching were my favorite because of the black teachers who went out of their way to help me grow as a teacher and person.

I hope I helped you out some.
 
I think you've hit the nail on the head regarding the one aspect of Long Distance trains that I don't like - the succinct classism.

Here in the East, we don't run a lot of sleeper trains, so it's not that often that I ride one, but when I do, I actually prefer the down to earth nature of coach passage. I've considered booking sleeper for an upcoming trip to Chicago with my lady friend who is African-American, but do tend to wonder if she'd be confonted with something similar to your experience.

Unfortunately, racism and the railroad go back a good ways. When I look at all of my old streamliner picture books of trains from the 40s to the 60's, the only African Americans one sees in the photos are the service attendants.

On my recent train ride on the Capitol Limited, I enjoyed my ride in coach a great deal, had breakfast in the diner at a table with two African-American riders with good conversation, then sat in the Sightseer and conversed freely among several people both black and white. It helped make me feel that the railroad had come a long way progressively in the past several decades.

Then I read about your experience and realize that some aspects do still have a way to go.

I do agree that there very likely is varying degrees of classism and racism still active on some trains - I even read posts on here that refer to Coach as "Steerage." (Sorry, but I don't MOO). If such a thing is more common on some trains, it would certainly point me towards booking COACH if at all.
 
Nice to get a broader topic than usual.

There are several aspects to this post to consider. If anyone books first class rather than coach, they should expect to obtain the extra benefits which they are paying for, regardless. Although a Brit, I have travelled over 25,000 Amtrak miles, and most of that in sleeper, and in the company of all nationalities and complexions. My feeling is that most of us, of whatever background, get a pretty poor to average service from Amtrak employees. There are some who are stunningly bad, and some are great, but many don't seem to know about customer skills. I have also found while aboard train that many US folk seem uncomfortable when out of their home environment, and seem to feel anything different to home, like mixing with strangers, could be threatening to them.

Traveling long distance by train is arduous if one is to sleep aboard, it would be a better idea if the trains were all sleeper and no coach!

I accept that there is a different feeling in coach, and have been considering booking my next trip in coach from a financial aspect, but its the need to get a half decent sleep that draws me to sleeper, not in any way a desire to be apart, or exclusive.

Ed B)

p.s. I would not hesitate to book your African American friend into sleeper if they fancy it.

p.p.s In the UK we have a slightly different perspective on acceptable words, is African American correct and without offence?
 
Aloha

Racism is the lowest form of human life. But the Amtrak trains seem to suffer the least from this disease. The worst example I came across was at a Holiday Inn accross the street from the mormon church. Never saw such examples any where elso on the Ice Capades tour in 36 different cities or and have never expierenced any on the 15 Amtrack trains I had the pleasure of rideing.
 
Dude, sorry about your experiences. You should write a letter explaining the situation to Amtrak. Amtrak works best when everyone is treated fairly.

As a native Midwesterner I think I should point out that many Midwesterners tend to frown on using money to get respect or running your mouth about money or thinking that money gets you respect white or black. Going around flashing money and talking about money and having an attitude thinking money gets you respect won't work as well in the Midwest as in L.A.

Midwesterners tend to be more reserved and quiter than other folks in the country. This is a broad generalization, but Midwesterners are different from people in Los Angeles.

In regards to the class thing some folks on Long Distance trains treat it as a Land Cruise and vacation so they will have a different attitude toward folks in coach.
 
I have to agree wholeheartedly with PennCentralFan. Flashing money is looked upon as arrogent and downright stupid here in the Midwest. If anything, it makes one hostile to the person who thinks they can impress people by flashing money, or big rings, or fancy cars. Kind of like an insult to the intelligence of the person/people you are flashing it to. So, I'd suggest that you don't try that one again. It gives the wrong message.

As far as speaking proper "in Proper English" is concerned, if you don't do that all the time, it may have come across as being exagerated and phoney, but I doubt that would be the reason you didn't get an upgrade.
 
caravanman said:
p.s. I would not hesitate to book your African American friend into sleeper  if they fancy it.p.p.s In the UK we have a slightly different perspective on acceptable words, is African American correct and without offence?
Click to expand...
Well, I just tried to test the check the rates for my desired dates, but after upgrading to the sleeper, and putting in a code for a discount in the accomodations, only to have the arrow system tell me this...

amtkresv_136.png


:eek: THAT'S NOT A NICE THING TO SAY ABOUT HER! :eek:

After backing up and re-entering the info twice, it finally took it! :D

$412.50 for the both of us, including a one day stop over in PGH on the return - sleeper only on the Cap from Chi to Pgh.
 
Sorry but you are not authorized to view or download this Attachment
Click to expand...
:(

Perhaps one needs to be logged into that forum to view.

Strange message, though.
 
I got it worked out - The properties of the image was the attachment tag and not the image tag. A setting in my own forum had a limit of a 500 pixel height to an image attachment. Only after I changed it could I get the image properties to be able to show the image inline in the post.

phew! :blink:
 
I was nieve in thinking that if I flashed a little money around, that would get me respect and preferencial treatment on a train. In L.A., they don't care that I'm Black. As long as I have money to pay for dinner at the Stinking Rose, or VIP Laker tickets, who cares right? Wrong. I found that speaking in "Proper English" while attempting to sound educated meant nothing when attempting to upgrade our train room coming
Click to expand...
I agree what others have said about flashing money and deplore any racism but I must show some surprise that it was racism. On my most recent rail trip there were several African American families booked both in the cheaper sleepettes as well as the bedrooms. There were many in coach as well so I didn't see where it was not a common thing.
 
One thing I have noticed about Amtrak is the amount of African-Americans that are working the train. Both my sleeper car attendents have been African-Americans. I have browsed the Amtrak America magazine and alot of the employees and customers pictured are minorities. Being caucausin, racism maybe happening all around me but I may be totally clueless about it going on.
 
I had a horrible experience last year in StarLATE. In Klamath Falls we boarded the train (3 kids + two adults). There was plenty of space in sleeper. I asked for upgrade - and first time in my life I did experience conductor mocking my Hungarian accent - so no sleeper was for stinky Hungarians (=us).

BTW: I am a dual citizen with American passoprt, two of my kids were born here and all of us are as "white" as snow. Thus, you don't need to be African-American to face discrimination. Foreign accent is sometimes but fortunately rarely "good" enough.

On the other hand - and luckily much more often - I did frequently seen anyone being upgraded regardless of their skin color or natonality. On my last trip from Portland to San Jose a few older Norvegians got the upgrade (they did not speak English at all), myself (see my accent) and some people of African ancestors, too. No one complained, the crew was fine, I still laugh as I remember the couch attendant and her terrific sense of humor and the conductor was a fine gentleman.

My mileage with Amtrak is not very extensive, I got so far maybe 20-30K during my life (compared with well over 100-200K in Europe) - but I think, in 8 cases out of 10 more typical experience is what I had in Portland than what I had in Klamath Falls.

Amtrak is not unique - in 8 cases out of 10 there will be a decent crew in Russia, China or Germany, in 2 cases out of 10... well, not everyone is having a good day and some people work for railroad(s) who shouldn't work there at all.

To finish my comment - if it is good, it can be very good. We have many memories of excellent crews.
 
I also also like to add that any remarks made by me in regard to "steerage" should be taken in jest and are meant to be stabs at the lack of creature comforts, NOT the class or nationality of people to be found riding there.

FWIW, I've also flown coach on NorthWest Airlines and ridden on Greyhound in the past, and would also use my home states coach-only 350 and 360-series trains without a moment of hesitation.

I would be more that happy to travel in Slumbercoach on an overnight trip if it was still available. Alas, such an option is ancient history. :(
 
Everyday,

It was just a dumb joke, guess ya had to be there. When caravanman suggested that I should by all means book sleeper for myself and my African American riding cpartner, I went to the Amtrak site and picked out the trains, and once I chose the sleeper upgrade, it gave me the message like it was going to disable my partner. Like I said, dumb joke.

Michigan,

A couple of years ago, I had to go to one way to Erie, PA to handle the purchase of a car. Since the LSL arrived in Erie in the wee hours of the morning, and Greyhound arrived at Noon, I essentially HAD to go with the dog. Trying to sleep on a Greyhound between DC and PGH was very trying indeed, even though I was fortunate to have a pair of seats to myself. Cramped, and uncomfortable, I think I got maybe two hours of rough sleep.

Compared to the dog or the air, an Amfleet I seems luxurious compared to these modes, and a Superliner coach seat is even better! I know it still falls well short of sleeper, but I'd have no problem doing an overnighter in coach!
 
The Metropolitan said:
A couple of years ago, I had to go to one way to Erie, PA to handle the purchase of a car. Since the LSL arrived in Erie in the wee hours of the morning, and Greyhound arrived at Noon, I essentially HAD to go with the dog. Trying to sleep on a Greyhound between DC and PGH was very trying indeed, even though I was fortunate to have a pair of seats to myself. Cramped, and uncomfortable, I think I got maybe two hours of rough sleep.
Click to expand...
Funny you should mention this story Metro. The Mrs and I just got back from our trip where we took a roomette from TOL to DC and then took the VRE from DC to FBG...where we purchased a 2005 Dodge Sprinter and drove it back home! B)
 
The Metropolitan said:
Everyday,
It was just a dumb joke, guess ya had to be there. When caravanman suggested that I should by all means book sleeper for myself and my African American riding cpartner, I went to the Amtrak site and picked out the trains, and once I chose the sleeper upgrade, it gave me the message like it was going to disable my partner. Like I said, dumb joke.

Michigan,

A couple of years ago, I had to go to one way to Erie, PA to handle the purchase of a car. Since the LSL arrived in Erie in the wee hours of the morning, and Greyhound arrived at Noon, I essentially HAD to go with the dog. Trying to sleep on a Greyhound between DC and PGH was very trying indeed, even though I was fortunate to have a pair of seats to myself. Cramped, and uncomfortable, I think I got maybe two hours of rough sleep.

Compared to the dog or the air, an Amfleet I seems luxurious compared to these modes, and a Superliner coach seat is even better! I know it still falls well short of sleeper, but I'd have no problem doing an overnighter in coach!
Click to expand...
Oddly enough, this odd message has been popping up more and more lately. Seems like Amtrak is having problems with their site. I got that same message yesterday while trying to check train status.
 
AlanB said:
Oddly enough, this odd message has been popping up more and more lately. Seems like Amtrak is having problems with their site. I got that same message yesterday while trying to check train status.
Click to expand...
Probably because Amtrak is geting ready to shut down. :D :D
 
MrFSS said:
AlanB said:
Oddly enough, this odd message has been popping up more and more lately.  Seems like Amtrak is having problems with their site.  I got that same message yesterday while trying to check train status.
Click to expand...
Probably because Amtrak is getting ready to shut down. :D :D
Click to expand...
Beat me to it. Let's rename this topic 'Paranoid Conspiracy Theories.' :lol:
 
Back to the topic, I didn't see any specifics in the postings of those who were feeling that they'd been discriminated against, but there are many reasons someone may be denied acommodation in a sleeper, despite the presence of empty rooms. Most commonly, it's because someone will be boarding downline! If someone getting on the SWC in Flagstaff wants to upgrade to Kansas City, but someone has booked a room for Newton to Chicago, that room cannot be sold (unless someone wants to upgrade only for part of the distance, and it is at the conductor's discretion whether or not to do that, as it requires much extra work and monitoring of passengers to make sure that no one is encroaching on someone else's room). Also, there are times (whether the attendants and conductors mention it or not) that individual rooms may be bad-ordered within an otherwise functioning car, due to inroom mechanical or plumbing problems. Anyone care to share some details, so maybe we can sort out what happened, and figure out whether a claim of discrimination would be taken seriously? And the midwesterner above is correct in stating that flashing money isn't necessarily going to make a difference, especially if the crew is operating in a professional manner. (side story: someone on a recent CS trip only brought enough heart medication - or so they said - for the duration of the trip, and wanted the conductor to call the engineer to speed up the train so he could get his medication in L.A.!! Sorry, folks, impossible is impossible...)
 
TransAtlantic, you said "whether a claim of discrimination should be taken seriously". I think the original post by Ebony Batiste is a hoax. Who in their right mind would honestly believe that you could get your own way by flashing money? I think the person who started this discussion did it only to get things riled up. I don't think any of it really happened.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top