Radio Scanner on an Amtrak Trip?

[Devil's Advocate]

Do any of y'all ever use radio scanners on your trips? Have they been helpful in explaining what's going on or alerting you to interesting photo-ops? How would you go about finding a model that works in your area for a good price?

 

[AlanB]

I never leave home without mine if I'm boarding a train. I even use just riding the NYC subway and commuter rails.

I enjoy very much knowing whats going on, especially when there are problems. In fact, on the subways it's saved me more than once as I've gotten off a train early and transfered to another or even reversed direction to avoid a stalled train ahead of the one that I was on. Two years ago I had half the people in the Sightseer Lounge on the Chief ready to shoot a photo of some Antelope alongside the tracks because the engineer called them out to the crew. The conductor did try to make an announcement, but the PA was broken in the car she was in and she was unable to do so.

As for what scanner, just about any regular scanner will do. I happen to use an older Radio Shack model that I brought about 10 years ago now IIRC. You can find some info on scanners, although some of it is now outdated, as well as what frequencies to use on what trains over at OTOL.

 

[BlakeTyner]

Yes, a scanner is a must for me. It keeps you up to date on what's happening, why the train may be stopping, etc., and can really help with location info (because you'll be hearing the talking defect detectors and they list milepost and speed, another nice thing.)

Coming back from CHI a couple of weeks ago, the engineer of the Texas Eagle called to the conductor that either the air compressor was screwy or there was an air brake leak. So we stopped just south of Texarkana on the main. The conductor had a new main res air hose installed in about 5 minutes and we still ended up early into MHL, but it's stuff like that that makes having a scanner really beneficial. Now that smart phones are just about everywhere, you don't tend to be as "lost" as you once were--mine has a built in GPS and I was able to watch our location on Google Maps, but actually hearing the mileposts comes in handy, too.

For a sleeper room or in the lounge, I've never had any problems with keeping the volume at a reasonable level. For coach, I'd think you'd have to use an earplug.

It's kind of fun to listen to how the different crews communicate. Northbound, we had Engineer Sanders (sort of a legend on Youtube) and a female conductor. During the night, there are a couple of flag stops, and you'd hear the conductor call up "okay, watch the right side." A few minutes later, the engineer would come back "nobody's home" and the conductor would respond "zoom zoom." This conductor gave a "highball" call for every defect detector.

Another crew had a conductor that would just tap his microphone key twice, giving two little tones, when we passed a detector. There wasn't that much commentary between those two.

Coming out of CHI, we had an apparently popular engineer, as one of the tower controllers told everybody on the line that he was "the best on the Amtrak system" and they had a cute conversation.

But yeah, it's a must have. Mine's a Radio Shack Pro-82, which has a price point of about $99 new.

Couple of tips:

Program in all the railroad channels, and do it so that each programmed channel 'matches' the AAR frequency. In other words, your scanner's channel 20 should be the AAR channel 20. That way you don't have to do any frequency conversions when the crew says "Going to 44" or whatever. Their 44 is your 44.

Sometimes the online frequencies don't match what the railroads actually use. I ran into this several times recently. At best, if I hadn't heard a radio freq change and I didn't hear a defect detector in a while, I'd just ask the conductor what channel they were on. At worst, you can just scan through all of them until you get a transmission, then set that channel. If you're scanning through all AAR channels, sometimes you won't hear a brief crew-crew call, but when a detector transmits, it takes enough time for your scan to reach it.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Excellent information, thanks very much!

 

[fredevad]

At best, if I hadn't heard a radio freq change and I didn't hear a defect detector in a while, I'd just ask the conductor what channel they were on.

How often or far between (generally speaking, since I'm guessing it'll be different for different host railroads) should one expect to hear a defect detector?

My last trip with the scanner from MKE-CHI on CP track for NTD (TMA, Too Many Acronyms), I heard 3 detectors, or about every 20-30 miles or so.

 

[Ryan]

Sounds about right - I had the scanner on for the vast majority of the trip, and while I never put a watch to it, I got a feel for "Hey, I haven't heard a detector in a while" and realized that I had missed a radio change. On the SCW run that we ended up behind on, having the scanner was priceless to be able to tell what was going on.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I'm using a Uniden BC95XLT and have been more than happy with it. I upgraded the standard duckie antenna to an improved response one Radio Shack sells, but may heave that one for a tuned one close to the AAR frequencies someone discussed recently in another thread. I often leave mine on at home as I live about a mile from a Defect Detector on the BNSF and am sometimes amazed at how long some of the freights are.

 

[the_traveler]

BTW: If you're thinking about one from Radio Shack, they are on Points For Shopping - so you can earn AGR points AND they also offer FREE shipping to the store (and sometimes to your home)!

 

[BlakeTyner]

Yeah, every 20 miles or so sounds about right. And you do get a feel for when you've missed a radio change and you're not hearing detectors anymore. It's odd--even when I was sleeping on the train, I had my scanner going, and I'd wake up if there wasn't enough activity, lol. So if you go, say, 45 minutes without hearing one, you might have missed a radio change.

 

[fredevad]

On Track On Line lists the Amtrak frequencies for each train. I haven't used this list yet (I found it after I got my scanner a couple of weeks ago), but it seems to give the town names where the channels switch.

I'm also wondering if just scanning all RR channels (once outside a metropolitan area or away fro a rail yard) would work just as well.

 

[AlanB]

On Track On Line lists the Amtrak frequencies for each train. I haven't used this list yet (I found it after I got my scanner a couple of weeks ago), but it seems to give the town names where the channels switch.

Those are the best comprehensive by route lists around, at least that I've found. Full disclaimer, I also help to maintain OTOL, although the frequencies lists are not my responsability. I have however sent in corrections so you'll find my name at the bottom of a few of the pages.

I'm also wondering if just scanning all RR channels (once outside a metropolitan area or away fro a rail yard) would work just as well.

It works, but not nearly as well as simply locking in the correct channel. The reason is that many times the broadcast is often quite short and if you're scanning all 96 channels and they start broadcast immediately after your scanner scans past the correct channel, by the time you get through the other 95 channels and back to the right channel, you may have missed half the message. A scanner, scanning all the channels literally has to spend a split second listening to each channel to decide if it needs to stop there. Those mili-seconds add up.

If you lock in the correct channel, then you'll hear the entire broadcast.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

1. So is the consensus for a $100 purchase the Radio Shack portable shown below?



Are there any better models or models with a better price? I'm not against spending $100, I just want to make sure I'm not wasting my money. At the moment I'm thinking of using it on the train itself, which I assume should be easy for virtually any scanner to handle, but in the future I'd also like to use it while finding spots to do some train watching. Can this model be expected to work while driving around town as well?

2. How do the train crews know what channel to be on? Is it simply on a chart of theirs or does it show up on signage as well?

3. I have done frequent flier programs in the past and managed to get multiple free flights in the past, even to Europe. However, these days I rarely even bother with it as the once free trips now have charges levied by the airlines for the "convenience" of letting you use your miles. That might not make them completely worthless, but unless you fly enough to get status (25,000+ BIS miles annually) it makes them worth a lot less than they once were. Since I'm new to AGR I'm wondering if it's any better than the airline programs at this point. I also hate the way everything expires on modified schedules now. I ended up losing 40,000 miles with United because of a modified expiration schedule that I didn't babysit enough. Those sorts of games get old after a while.

Sorry for all the questions but I'm still pretty new to this.

 

[Ryan]

Since I'm new to AGR I'm wondering if it's any better than the airline programs at this point. I also hate the way everything expires on modified schedules now. I ended up losing 40,000 miles with United because of a modified expiration schedule that I didn't babysit enough. Those sorts of games get old after a while.
Sorry for all the questions but I'm still pretty new to this.

Yes, absolutely worth it. Ride at least once every 3 years and the points never expire.

 

[BlakeTyner]

1. So is the consensus for a $100 purchase the Radio Shack portable shown below?

Are there any better models or models with a better price? I'm not against spending $100, I just want to make sure I'm not wasting my money. At the moment I'm thinking of using it on the train itself, which I assume should be easy for virtually any scanner to handle, but in the future I'd also like to use it while finding spots to do some train watching. Can this model be expected to work while driving around town as well?

2. How do the train crews know what channel to be on? Is it simply on a chart of theirs or does it show up on signage as well?

1) That scanner is fine. You can purchase an antenna that extends if you want, but I just kept the rubber ducky on mine. I can pick up on-train conversations just fine, and it works well for railfanning.

If you want to use your scanner for police and fire in addition to rail, some cities use "trunking" systems, which require a different scanner. However, in my experience trunked systems are pretty few and far between, so I haven't felt the need to get a more expensive scanner. A portable scanner will pick up just fine while driving around town, just be aware that if you're railfanning in the middle of nowhere, you might not pick up much in the way of radio traffic. Trains aren't in constant contact with dispatchers or each other. If you know the locations of talking defect detectors, you can set up near one (within a few miles) and use it as a 'warning' that a train is coming from that direction. You'll hear the defector and within a few minutes the train will come by. It's also possible to figure out what frequency the End of Train device is transmitting on, and tune to that. As a train gets close, your scanner will pick up the data stream. I don't use this method, but some people do.

Something to keep in mind--another reason just scanning the RR channels isn't so good is that if you're very close to the transmitter, your scanner will stop on the next channel down or up from the actual frequency. It'll sound like a lot of static, kind of like when you're not quite on the right FM radio channel. Since the scanner stops on that channel, it will not continue to scan to the correct channel, and you'll miss out on the transmission. Since I live in a town with 2 railroads coming through, I use my scanner to scan between them--I have Union Pacific's road channel for this area (27) set as the "priority" channel in my scanner. This means that no matter what else the scanner is doing, it will check channel 27 every second or so. KCS uses channel 10 through here, so what I normally do is "lock" channel 10 on, and make sure the "PRI" indication is lit. That allows me to hear transmissions from both railroads--even short transmissions.

If you are going to be scanning, and you have a known frequency, what I do is lock out the next channel down and the next channel up, so that I don't get that "bleed over" static. Say I know UP uses channel 90--I'd lock out channels 89 and 91 so that the scanner does not scan them.

2) The railroaders know what channel to be on because it's listed in the system timetable. On UP, they are on 27 from Little Rock to Marshall; then 90 from Marshall to Longview. I think it stays on 90 from Longview to Ft. Worth. It might be worthwhile to get a system timetable for your railroad--they show up all the time at trade shows and ebay. They'll let you know the locations of defect detectors, milepost numbers, dispatcher control point ID's, etc. I'm not for sure, but the Railroad Atlas books might have all that information, too.

 

[AlanB]

1. Can this model be expected to work while driving around town as well?

It will work, but be very careful about driving around town with your scanner. In some states, like NY for example, it is illegal to drive around with a scanner in your car unless you are either the press or emergency personel. In other states, it's illegal to drive around with it on if you're listening to fire or police. There is a link on the OTOL site that will take you to a page that covers the laws in most states.

2. How do the train crews know what channel to be on? Is it simply on a chart of theirs or does it show up on signage as well?

Most simply have done the route enough such that they know, in fact that's part of being qualified to work that route. And as already noted above, it's also in the crew's time tables.

3. I have done frequent flier programs in the past and managed to get multiple free flights in the past, even to Europe. However, these days I rarely even bother with it as the once free trips now have charges levied by the airlines for the "convenience" of letting you use your miles. That might not make them completely worthless, but unless you fly enough to get status (25,000+ BIS miles annually) it makes them worth a lot less than they once were. Since I'm new to AGR I'm wondering if it's any better than the airline programs at this point. I also hate the way everything expires on modified schedules now. I ended up losing 40,000 miles with United because of a modified expiration schedule that I didn't babysit enough. Those sorts of games get old after a while.

Very worth it. As noted, you only need take one ride every three years to keep your points from expiring. There are no extra fees. Only a few blackout dates and no capacity controls. If you call up today to book a room and it's the last room on the train and currently selling for $1,000; you get the room.

I've already gone around the country once entirely on points, done the Crescent to the Sunset on points, taken two trips on the Auto Train using points, once to Florida on the Star in a bedroom on points, and I've got a roomette on the LSL to the Empire Builder coming up in July. All told over the last 5 years or so I've probably spent 300,000 AGR points on free trips for me and my family.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Lots of good information in this thread -- thanks to everyone who has pitched-in with advice!

1) That scanner is fine. You can purchase an antenna that extends if you want, but I just kept the rubber ducky on mine. I can pick up on-train conversations just fine, and it works well for railfanning.

OK, so the first RadioShack I went to tried to give me a portable trunking scanner instead of the generic version I asked for. Now, this was a bit of a quandary since I know the trunking versions are more expensive and they apparently didn't have any other models in stock. However, my overactive conscience kicked in and prevented me from taking advantage of the situation. Oh well. The next day I tried calling around to see if the next store actually had what I wanted in stock. They said they had two models of the portable 200-channel scanners, the current one for $99 and the previous model for $49. I figured the previous model would probably be fine and spending $50 less would be best since I was new at this and didn't know how much use I'd get out of such a thing. I bought the scanner and some batteries and fired her up. The first stuff I heard was police related but apparently we have a trunking system because you could only hear a tiny bit before it cut out again. D'oh! I ended up taking the scanner with me to the station when I went to go pickup some more tickets and get a voucher. I used my mobile phone to grab the local frequency chart from the web and picked up some train transmissions but it was hard to figure out what they were talking about. Unlike the pros on YouTube I had no idea what was going on or where the "rockport sub" was or pretty much anything else they said. Dang it.

If you know the locations of talking defect detectors, you can set up near one (within a few miles) and use it as a 'warning' that a train is coming from that direction.

Yeah I wish I knew where these things were. As it is I'm still using the train horns instead of the scanner. Is it just a matter of driving around aimlessly or are these listed in the system timetable or elsewhere?

 

[RTOlson]

The first stuff I heard was police related but apparently we have a trunking system because you could only hear a tiny bit before it cut out again.

There are a couple of things that may be going on, based on my experience.

First, if your radio was in "scan" mode, it may have gone back to scanning when it detected a lull in the conversation (usually the few seconds' pause between transmissions). You can either adjust the timing of the scan function to wait longer before resuming its scan, or lock in the channel when there is an interesting conversation.

Second, you may have only heard a little bit because you may need to tweak the "squelch" function on the scanner (usually a knob on the device). Radio scanners often pick up staticky or background noise (like on AM radio). Listeners use the squelch to adjust the scanner's sensitivity to such things.

If the squelch is turned down, it'll pick up and stay on channels that may generate more background noise than signal. Turning the squelch up means the scanner will more readily disregard background noise, but it may also disregard some listenable signals. Finding the right squelch setting is a matter of trial and error on the listener's part.

Those are the first two things that come to mind. Good luck and good listening. It can seem like they're talking a different language at times, but usually one can pick up on things with some time and perhaps some helpful questions to a local radio or rail group.

 

[BlakeTyner]

Lots of good information in this thread -- thanks to everyone who has pitched-in with advice!
The first stuff I heard was police related but apparently we have a trunking system because you could only hear a tiny bit before it cut out again. D'oh! I ended up taking the scanner with me to the station when I went to go pickup some more tickets and get a voucher. I used my mobile phone to grab the local frequency chart from the web and picked up some train transmissions but it was hard to figure out what they were talking about. Unlike the pros on YouTube I had no idea what was going on or where the "rockport sub" was or pretty much anything else they said. Dang it.

That will come with time. A lot of the procedures and jargon get repeated often enough that you'll be familiar with it in no time. Here's a bit of a crash course:

1) Track Warrants -- oddly enough, as I began typing this, my scanner came to life with a dispatcher issuing a track warrant. These can be confusing at first, but what I did was go to a website and print a sample Track Warrant. You'll see all the boxes that can be checked and filled in. Here's a sample: Track Warrant. So, you might hear a conversation like this:

Dispatcher: "UP Dispatcher 39 to the UP4910 at Jefferson, over."

Train: "UP4910, over."

D: "I have a track warrant for you to copy, over."

T: "Go ahead dispatcher."

D: "Track warrant 27, June 2, 2010 to the UP4910 at Jefferson, check box one, track warrant 26 is void. Check box two, proceed from Jefferson to Texarkana on main track, check box six, authority expires at 12:00. Check box 8, hold main track at last named point (Texarkana.)

T: "Ok, dispatcher, track warrant 27 on June 2, 2010 to the UP4910 at Jefferson, x box one, track warrant 26 is void. X box two, proceed from Jefferson to Texarkana on main track, x box six, authority good until 12:00, x box 8, hold main track at last named point, over.

D: "That is correct, OK by BTH (dispatcher's initials) at 11:07."

T: "Ok by BTH at 11:07, UP4910 out."

Other fairly common things to hear would be a conductor or brakeman call for either "three point protection," which is what they ask for when climbing between cars. Three point means that 1) the reverser is centered/removed, 2) brakes are set, 3) traction motors are disengaged. The train cannot move or undo any of those things until the person that called for the protection releases the protection. Lots of times, you'll hear the brakeman call for "set and center" which refers to a setting of the brakes and a centering of the reverser.

Sometimes, if an absolute signal is malfunctioning, a train will call the dispatcher (you'll generally hear a series of tones, similar to when dialing a cell phone) and get permission to pass.

Depending on the road and rulebook, generally when trains pass each other, a member of the waiting train will do a roll by inspection of the passing train, and transmit to that engineer once he's past. "Rollby looks good UP4910; marker is lit, highball."

Sometimes crews will call signal indications over the radio--this happens here on the KCS when passing the UP-owned interlocker. "KCS2330 clear block at Jefferson."

If there are track crews working, the conductor of any trains approaching that area will have it in a bulletin, and will call ahead to receive permission for his train to enter/pass the crew. The track foreman gives this permission, and usually will request the bell to be rung and the engine crew to be on the lookout for men and equipment.

Yeah I wish I knew where these things were. As it is I'm still using the train horns instead of the scanner. Is it just a matter of driving around aimlessly or are these listed in the system timetable or elsewhere?

They're listed in the system timetable. You might check online (usually at the local BLET union's website) to see if there are track profiles available. Track profile On that one, you get lots of useful information, including the location of all signals, mileposts, control points, defect detectors (they're the little green circles with a triangle inside,) speed limits, etc. If you can't find any like that, you can check out the published railroad atlas for your region.

Lots of times, an employee will give you an expired system timetable if you ask. They're also available on eBay.