Raising Revenue

[Devil's Advocate]

Unbundling meals and sleeper rooms would likely kill off both sleepers and diners.

Well, at first I just wanted fresher, tastier, healthier meals available on-board. But AU has done a remarkable job convincing me that little if anything can be done on that front for various reasons. Fair enough. Then I thought another member's suggestion of using a Wafflehouse type crew might improve both the food quality and the financial performance of the diner, but apparently that's not possible either. So then I thought maybe, just maybe, we could have better food delivered at (or perhaps eaten in) stations along the way. But apparently that's also impossible. I guess the status quo is the one and only path forward. So sad.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Serious question: Who owns the ABQ station? The wait there is usually at least half an hour, and there's enough of a bazaar of local crafts for sale (ditto La Junta, and Grand Junction, CO has the old gift shop), so if they own the station I'm wondering if Amtrak couldn't make up for a bit of lost cafe business on letting a vendor or two out by the platform to throw more variety in. Mind you, this would work better if you had 2-3 trains per day each way...*sigh*

The 'local crafts' sold at ABQ, are pretty sad. There is not a doubt in my mind that most of the stuff was manufactured in Mexico, China or a Third World country, and that most of the few items that are 'local' are of dubious quality. I recently looked at a 'genuine' turquoise necklace that looked okay from a distance, but when I picked it up it was not heavy like rock, but as light in weight as - well - plastic. If I still smoked I think I'd have been tempted to ask the vendor if he minded if I put a lighter to it to make sure it wouldn't melt!

When you say 'lost cafe business,' do you mean the business that is lost to the greasy spoon inside the station? If so, how do you see Amtrak profitting by having food vendors in sight from onboard? Would they not likely tempt even more people off the train and out of the DC and cafe car? I can't see how any 'percentage cut' of the sales that would go to Amtrak would make up for the lost onboard revenue, unless the vendors where Amtrak employees. I just can't think of a business model which would make this a profitable proposition for Amtrak.

 

[AlanB]

Serious question: Who owns the ABQ station?

Amtrak owned the old station IIRC, now no longer in use. I believe that the city owns the new station.

 

[AlanB]

Unbundling meals and sleeper rooms would likely kill off both sleepers and diners.

Well, at first I just wanted fresher, tastier, healthier meals available on-board. But AU has done a remarkable job convincing me that little if anything can be done on that front for various reasons. Fair enough. Then I thought another member's suggestion of using a Wafflehouse type crew might improve both the food quality and the financial performance of the diner, but apparently that's not possible either. So then I thought maybe, just maybe, we could have better food delivered at (or perhaps eaten in) stations along the way. But apparently that's also impossible. I guess the status quo is the one and only path forward. So sad.

I don't believe that you have to totally give up all hope for better, even though you and I are far apart on just how good/bad things are. Not all that you suggest is practical or workable, but that is not to say that everyone should stop fighting for better food than what is currently provided or that it can't be done either.

Aramark can do better than what they give to Amtrak right now. But getting better is going to take a combination of Amtrak paying a bit more (a bitter pill), Aramark trying to do better with less (another bitter pill), and the continued involvement of the executive chef consultants to come up with dishes that travel well and don't cost a fortune not to mention being healthier and tastier. Do I recommend holding one's breath waiting for better? No. I'm certainly not doing that.

But again, even as I recognize that what we have right now is better than where Amtrak was 10 years ago and it was heading south fast with SDS, I don't believe for one moment that they cannnot do better.

 

[Anderson]

Serious question: Who owns the ABQ station? The wait there is usually at least half an hour, and there's enough of a bazaar of local crafts for sale (ditto La Junta, and Grand Junction, CO has the old gift shop), so if they own the station I'm wondering if Amtrak couldn't make up for a bit of lost cafe business on letting a vendor or two out by the platform to throw more variety in. Mind you, this would work better if you had 2-3 trains per day each way...*sigh*

The 'local crafts' sold at ABQ, are pretty sad. There is not a doubt in my mind that most of the stuff was manufactured in Mexico, China or a Third World country, and that most of the few items that are 'local' are of dubious quality. I recently looked at a 'genuine' turquoise necklace that looked okay from a distance, but when I picked it up it was not heavy like rock, but as light in weight as - well - plastic. If I still smoked I think I'd have been tempted to ask the vendor if he minded if I put a lighter to it to make sure it wouldn't melt!

When you say 'lost cafe business,' do you mean the business that is lost to the greasy spoon inside the station? If so, how do you see Amtrak profitting by having food vendors in sight from onboard? Would they not likely tempt even more people off the train and out of the DC and cafe car? I can't see how any 'percentage cut' of the sales that would go to Amtrak would make up for the lost onboard revenue, unless the vendors where Amtrak employees. I just can't think of a business model which would make this a profitable proposition for Amtrak.

Rent. Amtrak rents concession privileges within a number of stations, so this wouldn't be any different. I'd also take a moment to point out that particularly in peak season, selling out of "entree" items (i.e. burgers, etc.) is a regular problem in the diner, and I can't imagine the cafe being much better in a lot of cases. Granted, this is probably a four-month problem (that is, June-August and major holidays), but especially if Amtrak ever manages to add cars to some of the trains if demand keeps rising, this problem will get worse unless Amtrak wants to start running near-full commissaries in ABQ, DEN, etc. Sooner or later, you either have to rip out seats in the cafe car to increase storage space or you have to arrange very large supplemental pickups.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Serious question: Who owns the ABQ station? The wait there is usually at least half an hour, and there's enough of a bazaar of local crafts for sale (ditto La Junta, and Grand Junction, CO has the old gift shop), so if they own the station I'm wondering if Amtrak couldn't make up for a bit of lost cafe business on letting a vendor or two out by the platform to throw more variety in. Mind you, this would work better if you had 2-3 trains per day each way...*sigh*

The 'local crafts' sold at ABQ, are pretty sad. There is not a doubt in my mind that most of the stuff was manufactured in Mexico, China or a Third World country, and that most of the few items that are 'local' are of dubious quality. I recently looked at a 'genuine' turquoise necklace that looked okay from a distance, but when I picked it up it was not heavy like rock, but as light in weight as - well - plastic. If I still smoked I think I'd have been tempted to ask the vendor if he minded if I put a lighter to it to make sure it wouldn't melt!

When you say 'lost cafe business,' do you mean the business that is lost to the greasy spoon inside the station? If so, how do you see Amtrak profitting by having food vendors in sight from onboard? Would they not likely tempt even more people off the train and out of the DC and cafe car? I can't see how any 'percentage cut' of the sales that would go to Amtrak would make up for the lost onboard revenue, unless the vendors where Amtrak employees. I just can't think of a business model which would make this a profitable proposition for Amtrak.

Rent. Amtrak rents concession privileges within a number of stations, so this wouldn't be any different. I'd also take a moment to point out that particularly in peak season, selling out of "entree" items (i.e. burgers, etc.) is a regular problem in the diner, and I can't imagine the cafe being much better in a lot of cases. Granted, this is probably a four-month problem (that is, June-August and major holidays), but especially if Amtrak ever manages to add cars to some of the trains if demand keeps rising, this problem will get worse unless Amtrak wants to start running near-full commissaries in ABQ, DEN, etc. Sooner or later, you either have to rip out seats in the cafe car to increase storage space or you have to arrange very large supplemental pickups.

Rent would not possibly cover the cost of lost business from the DC and the cafe car, let alone RAISE revenue. Amtrak would be better off contracting commissary replenishment in ABQ, as that would bring a better monetary return. I'm also not convinced that the DC and cafe car running out of items is not as much a result of lack of storage space as it is a deliberate run-down of stock so that food items do not spoil or expire and can no longer be sold/served, and have to be tossed.

As far as Amtrak adding cars to the SWC, that is going to be YEARS away, unless some trains are dropped because of budget cuts. If new cars are ever ordered, or if cars are added due to less trains running, I think management knows they will need to add food service capacity at a certain point. This could be done by adding either new or idled food service cars, so that there would be multiple ones in each consist - much like the model VIA uses for the Canadian. While I too get tired of Amfood when I take extended trips, I don't see trackside vendors as helping Amtrak's bottom line.

 

[Anderson]

Hey, I usually end up in the diner, cost be damned, if it's available. The only time I think I grouse at this point is either if I'm stuck on a Regional (actually mooted since the new Panache food service more than cuts it), locked out of the diner on a coach leg (it's happened to me once, on an overcrowded CZ at Christmastime), or otherwise end up in a crunch.

As to the food replenishment, with the cafe I'm actually wondering what the sell-by is on that stuff (i.e. if it couldn't make a round trip and simply be sold at the start of the new trip...not that I'm advocating selling stale food [that happens anyway],

As to the trackside stuff, the other option would be to subcontract. Generally with things like this, you've got DIY, you've got subcontracting, or you've got letting someone else handle it entirely. Because of pay grade issues and it being a distraction from their main business, Amtrak handling it is unattractive. Letting someone else handle it becomes an option, but there are obvious problems with that as you mentioned. That said, arranging backup deals in a few towns at the back end of the Builder's route might not be a bad move for when blizzards strike. That leaves subcontracting, where Amtrak pays a company to run the cafe but keeps any excess. If there were enough trains through ABQ, DEN, etc., then it could make sense to do this in a way that is accessible from both the tracks and the terminal proper. Note the bold, it's there for a reason...the assumption I'd operate under is that you'd post a small net loss from on-train traffic but you'd turn that into a net gain from the "other side" of the service (that is, in-station traffic).

The truth is that I don't think this would make a dent in the diner, but it would make a marginal dent in the cafe. If I'm Amtrak management, however, what I do if this works is I file this whole thing as being technically part of "food service" for the route(s) in question (including a footnote or two, of course) and keep the breakouts hazy (or just keep the books together and make them nearly impossible to disentangle without an expert team of auditors...even if you split the receipts by register, you can also divvy up the labor costs favorably, etc.)...and use that to say "Hey, look, we've improved cafe service!" Of course then I, the stats nerd, start bitching about accounting tricks...but such is life, and it's not like they haven't regularly altered their cost accounting for the MPRs, now, is it?

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Well said. In terms of the bottom line, are there not two kinds of liars? :giggle: If Amtrak could break even and provide greater and better food options, I would certainly be a happy First Class camper! :lol:

(Someone here described being in a sleeper as 'first class camping' and I think that really does capture the Amtrak sleeping car experience. )