Return to Denver Union Station

[lepearso]

Yesterday I received the newsletter for the Denver Union Station project.

I see that the hotel facility will open in the summer of 2014 and the transit center will open in the spring of 2014. But here's what threw me: they mentioned that in February they will "complete the remaining track work following Amtrak’s move out of their temporary station and platform".

Does this mean that Amtrak is planning to return to Denver Union Station in February? I did not expect them to move back so soon.

Click here to view the article.

 

[PRR 60]

Sure sounds like it. That is great news. The temporary station was OK, but getting back to a station accessible from LoDo is a huge plus.

That new Union Station trainshed is going to have to be an acquired taste for me. It just does not seem to compliment the old station at all, and in fact appears to visually overwhelm it. As a structural engineer, I recognize that am totally lacking in aesthetic taste (just ask any architect), but this design is a head scratcher. I've grown to kind of sort of maybe like the Cira Center behind 30th Street Station in Philadelphia (also a stark contrast in styles), so perhaps the new Denver Union Station will grow on me: or, perhaps not.

 

[the_traveler]

I didn't know a train shed was included in the remodel. To me, it doesn't make sense.

Yes, there would be protection from the elements. One reason it doesn't make sense to me, just on the sounds of it, is that part of the CZ extends next to Coors Field next to the station and next to the platform. Would this view be blocked? :huh:

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

The train shed is absolutely hideous, what were they thinking?

 

[the_traveler]

I missed the link before. I agree the train shed is hideous!

I always thought one of the reasons for them was to protect you from the elements. But with most of the center open, including the major part over the tracks where the train(s) and buses will be, what good is it? :huh: Maybe if it looked better I might change my mind. As it is, I don't see any good - except to add to the cost!

 

[Ispolkom]

Are those jackalopes in the first picture of the Crawford Hotel?

 

[Texan Eagle]

That station shed seems to be inspired by Denver's iconic airport structure-

Sorry for the ignorance- are thee any plans to start local commuter service out of Denver? All those tracks are surely not for just one daily California Zephyr, are they?

 

[Golden grrl]

That new Union Station trainshed is going to have to be an acquired taste for me. It just does not seem to compliment the old station at all, and in fact appears to visually overwhelm it. ...this design is a head scratcher.

Ever since Denver moved its airport from intown way out east to Kansas, it's been a real pain to get to and from Denver International Airport. Cab fare to downtown can run over $75. Bus fare, for a very long ride, taking about 45 minutes and costing $10-11 from downtown. Finally, the city has gotten around to construction of a 22.8 mile light rail system from town to DIA. When the light rail eventually is finished in 2016, the combined Union Station transit center will be the gateway point for a lot of tourist [train, plane, even commuter transit] traffic for downtown Denver. So my guess is that the canoopy is meant to echo the architectural look at the other end of the light rail line at DIA. For comparison, see http://www.flydenver.com/abouttheprogramdetail?URI=tcm:8-47202&PURI=tcm:8-47069 and look especially at the rendering captioned "View of plaza - looking southwest"

For another view of how the new train hall canopy will look from a street level, see the photo of the canopy at night at http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/dus_11

At that link, also notice the statement that "Amtrak is scheduled to start operations under the canopy in February 2014."

 

[Nathanael]

Yesterday I received the newsletter for the Denver Union Station project.

I see that the hotel facility will open in the summer of 2014 and the transit center will open in the spring of 2014. But here's what threw me: they mentioned that in February they will "complete the remaining track work following Amtraks move out of their temporary station and platform".

Does this mean that Amtrak is planning to return to Denver Union Station in February?

Or earlier! If they're going to complete the trackwork in February, Amtrak probaly has to move in January! The final section of trackwork requires demolition of Amtrak's current platform and will probably take quite a while.

I did not expect them to move back so soon.

"January or February" was the scuttlebutt from Denver Infill Blog. The new platforms are basically ready for Amtrak now, with only a little finishing work needed.
The catch here is that Amtrak can't move back in until large portions of the updates of the historic building are finished (enough to provide ticketing, baggage handling, and a waiting room). The historic building work is being done by the hotel company, and I have heard no updates whatsoever on the status of the work the hotel company is doing. This is why I am suspicious. If the hotel company falls behind on its schedule, then Amtrak will not move back on schedule.

The companies doing the trackwork would like to get Amtrak moved ASAP so that they can finish the trackwork, but the hotel company is completely separate, so...

 

[bretton88]

Per the link given a few posts above, the interior of the station is supposed to be fully open for business in "summer 2014" so Amtrak will probably have its area functional earlier than that.

 

[SubwayNut]

Yes Denver is about to start running 3 (with a few more in the works, some DMU) new electric! Commuter Rail lines including the east corridor that will go to the airport (and probably be faster than driving downtown)

I can't wait!

 

[Nathanael]

FWIW I found an updated floor plan for the ground floor of the station (in an odd location). It looks like Amtrak will be in the south wing, minimizing the drive for the baggage trolleys.

http://unionstationindenver.com/floor-plans/

 

[PaulM]

I missed the link before. I agree the train shed is hideous!

I always thought one of the reasons for them was to protect you from the elements. But with most of the center open, including the major part over the tracks where the train(s) and buses will be, what good is it? :huh: Maybe if it looked better I might change my mind. As it is, I don't see any good - except to add to the cost!

From the pictures in the OP's link, it looks like there are standard umbrella type what-cha-call-its covering the platforms underneath the open center.

I for one can't wait to see it in full operation and will postpone judgment regarding its hideousness until then. My impression from the pictures was that Denver is presenting itself as a world class city, distancing itself from the cheap, shabby, woe is me, we're bankrupt mentality so prevalent everywhere today.

 

[boxcarsyix]

Not only is the train shed is hideous, It dwarfs the building depriving the pax of a view of a classic, grand station.

 

[Guest]

The history of the "train shed" is long and stupid. Originally it was going to be a full train shed. The architects were enamoured of the Teflon cover like that at the airport for some reason (I think the Teflon is hideous).

Complaints about the view of the station led to the really bizarre design with the hole in the middle. Complaints about the non-functionality of this for covering the passengers led to the separate, normal canopies on the middle platforms... but the architects just wouldn't give up their dream of a Teflon train shed.

So we get this. Oh well, whatever. The view of the station is all right and the ground level design is nice. If people get really sick of the trainshed maybe in 20 years it will be taken down and replaced with more conventional canopies, or replaced with a glass trainshed or something.

I'm just glad the track-and-platform design is OK. It's probably the best that could be done since the through tracks were cut decades ago, though a through-track design would clearly have been better.

 

[Shawn Ryu]

That station shed seems to be inspired by Denver's iconic airport structure-

Sorry for the ignorance- are thee any plans to start local commuter service out of Denver? All those tracks are surely not for just one daily California Zephyr, are they?

The entire renovation was about preparing the station to handle commuter trains. So yes.

There will be a direct link to the airport now, via commuter rail.

Once finished navigating Denver without a car just got 10000 times easier.

And honestly, who cares about the train shed? I think it looks nice. But yea it does cover the grand station building.

Too bad Amtrak has no other routes to serve from Denver.

 

[dabrilloman]

Alright then, who gets actual Amtrak service first...Denver Union Station or St. Paul Union Depot...place your bets!

 

[railiner]

In the link that Golden grrl included to the RTD fastracks site, they mentioned that when RTD moves into the new 22 bay underground bus terminal at Union Station, RTD will be closing their current Market Street Station. I was wondering what they would do with that property....make it into a public parking garage or perhaps just demolish it?

Also wondering if Greyhound would be moving their diminished operation into Union Station bus terminal also....seems their current "white elephant" terminal at 19th and Arapahoe is a waste of a space that was designed for a much larger operation back in 1976.....

 

[guest]

Okay, architect here. First, I'll mention that I am no fan of tensile structures (aka fancy tents) such as this, and the one found at the airport, but it does serve a purpose. Having the big opening in the middle will make it healthier, safer, and marginally cleaner than a full shed would have been (I expect St. Paul to be a hell-on-earth, much like the platfrom area at CHI). If this is to be run like many Amtrak stations, with limited access to the platforms (see: CHI, SAC, PDX, SEA), most people will have little-to-no time to gaze at the station from trainside. The view of the station will be from the street side, good or bad.

Frankly, Denver loves their tensile structures, and so I say let them have it. It's fine, it's kind of interesting-looking, it is functional (sun shade, protection from snow and rain), and there ARE coverings on the platform to shelter passengers without enclosing all the diesel exhaust. And these structures have a limited lifespan, so in 20 years or so when the thing is getting tatty, it will be replaced by something that hopefully will be a bit more substantial in its construction and less intrusive in its design.

 

[the_traveler]

If this is to be run like many Amtrak stations, with limited access to the platforms (see: CHI, SAC, PDX, SEA), most people will have little-to-no time to gaze at the station from trainside.

The big difference between those listed and DEN is that the others are (or are mainly) the terminus of the route, so passengers will be getting off the train and then departing the platform. They may not look around at the train shed and or station from trainside, Denver on the other hand is in the middle of the route and a long stop.
Many passengers will get off the CZ to stretch their legs or even look at the station from either trainside or enter the station during the 1 hour stop. Except for the 1 time that I actually ended my trip in Denver, I don't believe I actually ever saw the front of the station in real life. (Only from photos or on TV.) All my views of the station were from the inside of the station or from the platform - now (or soon to be) hidden!

 

[Nathanael]

In the link that Golden grrl included to the RTD fastracks site, they mentioned that when RTD moves into the new 22 bay underground bus terminal at Union Station, RTD will be closing their current Market Street Station. I was wondering what they would do with that property....make it into a public parking garage or perhaps just demolish it?

It's being demolished and I believe the current plan is to sell the property. I suppose it might not be demolished if a buyer wanted it intact. RTD wants to get rid of it.

Also wondering if Greyhound would be moving their diminished operation into Union Station bus terminal also....seems their current "white elephant" terminal at 19th and Arapahoe is a waste of a space that was designed for a much larger operation back in 1976.....

Greyhound, last I heard, has no plans to move. And apparently they were asked back when the Union Station bus terminal was being designed, and they declined to participate. This isn't to say that they won't move some time in the future -- there are spare bays in the new bus station which Greyhound could use -- but they have no *plans* to do so.
They probably should. Most (though not all) of their routes *already* loop around to the Denver Amtrak station, and will presumably continue to do so.

Okay, architect here. First, I'll mention that I am no fan of tensile structures (aka fancy tents) such as this, and the one found at the airport, but it does serve a purpose. Having the big opening in the middle will make it healthier, safer, and marginally cleaner than a full shed would have been (I expect St. Paul to be a hell-on-earth, much like the platfrom area at CHI).

St. Paul doesn't have a trainshed. Look at Google Maps. St. Paul has a relatively narrow concourse (bridge) sticking out over the tracks, and it doesn't even go over one of the Amtrak tracks.

If this is to be run like many Amtrak stations, with limited access to the platforms (see: CHI, SAC, PDX, SEA),

It won't be. The station design features pedestrian circulation around the south end of the platforms, across a bridge along the north end of the trainshed, and through a tunnel at the center of the trainshed. There will be no access control at all for most of the platforms (which are for commuter rail) -- and I doubt Amtrak is going to waste personnel to block people from all three access points to the Amtrak platform. So the platform will be open-access.

(Amtrak has a separate "servicing platform" on the other side of its track, with only one access point, which will presumably be restricted-access, a bit like the setup in Chicago with separate passenger and baggage platforms.)

And these structures have a limited lifespan, so in 20 years or so when the thing is getting tatty, it will be replaced by something that hopefully will be a bit more substantial in its construction and less intrusive in its design.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[Nathanael]

Yeeargh, how did my quotes get messed up again?

 

[afigg]

The catch here is that Amtrak can't move back in until large portions of the updates of the historic building are finished (enough to provide ticketing, baggage handling, and a waiting room). The historic building work is being done by the hotel company, and I have heard no updates whatsoever on the status of the work the hotel company is doing. This is why I am suspicious. If the hotel company falls behind on its schedule, then Amtrak will not move back on schedule.

The companies doing the trackwork would like to get Amtrak moved ASAP so that they can finish the trackwork, but the hotel company is completely separate, so...

According to the FasTracks What's New at Union Station webpage: "Amtrak is scheduled to start operations under the canopy in February 2014 and RTD's commuter rail lines, including the line to Denver International Airport, are scheduled to start operations in 2016." The bus terminal has a set May date. It could be that Amtrak moves back to Union Station, but with some temporary facilities or arrangements for the waiting room and baggage handling. There will be a 2+ year gap to the start of service on the regional rail lines, so Amtrak will likely have lots of room for people to wait until then.

 

[PaulM]

... RTD's commuter rail lines, including the line to Denver International Airport, are scheduled to start operations in 2016." ... There will be a 2+ year gap to the start of service on the regional rail lines, so Amtrak will likely have lots of room for people to wait until then.zz

I'm pretty sure the two year wait will only be for the airport (east) line. There are already 4 lines in operation - Mineral (south), Lincoln (southeast), 9 Mile (SE) and Golden (west); and I'm sure they will move to the new station as soon as possible.

When you say commuter rail, you must be referring to light rail. I've heard mention of commuter rail (similar to MARC, Metra, Metrolink, NM Railrunner, etc), but I'm sure that is even further out in the future. Denver needs a commuter rail line between Ft. Collins and at least Colorado Springs.

 

[PRR 60]

... RTD's commuter rail lines, including the line to Denver International Airport, are scheduled to start operations in 2016." ... There will be a 2+ year gap to the start of service on the regional rail lines, so Amtrak will likely have lots of room for people to wait until then.zz

I'm pretty sure the two year wait will only be for the airport (east) line. There are already 4 lines in operation - Mineral (south), Lincoln (southeast), 9 Mile (SE) and Golden (west); and I'm sure they will move to the new station as soon as possible.

When you say commuter rail, you must be referring to light rail. I've heard mention of commuter rail (similar to MARC, Metra, Metrolink, NM Railrunner, etc), but I'm sure that is even further out in the future. Denver needs a commuter rail line between Ft. Collins and at least Colorado Springs.

The line to Denver International will be true commuter rail, not light rail.