Roomette on California Zephir

[gyuri_ft]

Guess it might be a different experience to my frequent European night travel

Thanks for BP Keleti pics and for new V1047 in the background.

Trick about Budapest:

1) Open your picture

2) Look straight into "eye" of V1047 (it's on the track #8)

3) Slowly rotate the cursor, so now V1047 is on your left hand side.

4) You should see an older gentleman holding yellow-blue paper box in his right hand.

Just across you is the Wasteels travel office. This is the only one in Budapest who will sell you rail ticket without handling fee and accept "plastic". They - unlike MAV ticket agents even do speek (some) English. They also sell CITY-STAR tickets, a very important means to travel to Germany, Austria and most of East Europe. Anyone traveling extensively in Europe should go to that place very first, than somewhere else.

Q: how was the SZ dining car on "Avala"? We wanted to use it, but arrived with good 180+ from Saloniki and missed the connection. The local trains were of course pretty bad, but still managed with some running to arrive in outskirts of Budpest around midnight - 4 connections from Belgrade! If you look at my "avatar" it's actually the front part of Avala with ÖBB 2nd class behind RZD sleeper

Maybe we are going a bit off topic but....

.. I can second your opinion about Wasteels office in Budapest.

I dont know if I have been on the Avala. It was a Intercity Belgrade Budapest Vienna with arrival in Vienna around 7 PM the food was plenty and the price cheap.

Here another view of Keleti PU

And here something unbeatable. One night on a sleeping car across Syria for only 6.50$US

Yes, it was "Avala". There is only one IC from Beograd to Vienna and it has Serbian Diner.

It's actually possible to beat the Syrian price: you can travel from Bratislava till Korean border or China for 100 Euro r/t using CITY-STAR ticket bought in Slovakia. Catch: the sleeper surcharge (around 80 Euro each way) is extra. But you travel well over 10000 km each way. 20000 km for 100 Euro is not very expensive, even if you pay 180 Euro for the sleeper (both ways) extra.

I did see your pics of the CFS sleeper. Syrians bought them from Germany (East) and recently refurbished them at Pars car factory in Iran. Who get the Iranian-rebuilt car are lucky and you are one of them. The refurbished cars run internationally Haydarpasha - Aleppo, the non-refurbished ones Aleppo-Tatvan. On domestic route it's a Syrian roulette, what you get. But even the worst is well worth 5 Euro.

 

[AlanB]

Doing a little photo research has revealed transition dorms on the Zephyr as late as February 6th, 2007...
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=174602

There are also many pics that include the TD from January 2007.

The absolute lastest pic I could find (from March 10th, 2007) did not include the TD, but had three regular sleepers instead...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=179364

Was the plan to dump the transition and add a third standard sleeper? Does anyone have any first hand accounts of the Zephyr running without a transition dorm or third sleeper?

Well again, I can't say that it positively happened, but it was reported by NARP and I seem to recall seeing an Arrow printout posted by Gene Poon that noted the elimination of crew dorms on both the CZ and the CS, effective by mid-January. The loss was gradual, as they simply stopped sending them out from Chicago for the CZ and from LA for the CS, which meant that the loss occured over several days. AFAIK there was no intent to replace the lost dorm with an extra sleeper, since this was a cost cutting move to save on fuel by not hauling around one more car.

And even if there were occasions where the CZ was sent out with a dorm, I would still tend to believe that those were rare events since again, why would a VP state that he was fighting to get them returned if they were already running?

 

[wkaemena]

The absence of the transition sleeper has created a problem that was reported on FlyerTalk: diesel fumes in the first car. The Transition car has the forward car-to-car door at the low-level car elevation (transition). The baggage car shields the door from the exhaust coming from the locomotives. But a standard sleeper has the door at the upper-level height and the upper part of that door is above the roof of the baggage car and right in the path of the exhaust fumes.
For the benefit of the OP, car 531 is the second car and is OK.

With the absence of the transition sleeper and the obvious problems of fumes coming through the front door, I hope Amtrak will invent any form of special seal securing the usability of the first sleeper behind the locomotives.

This issue reminds me of train travel in Germany until 50 years ago when smoke and steam from steam locos where coming through the open compartment window. Lukily 90% of haulage is now done with clean electric locos, where the energy is coming from a variety of sources like clean water, wind, nuclear or highly efficient thermal coal and gas power stations

 

[printman2000]

Doing a little photo research has revealed transition dorms on the Zephyr as late as February 6th, 2007...
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=174602

There are also many pics that include the TD from January 2007.

The absolute lastest pic I could find (from March 10th, 2007) did not include the TD, but had three regular sleepers instead...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=179364

Was the plan to dump the transition and add a third standard sleeper? Does anyone have any first hand accounts of the Zephyr running without a transition dorm or third sleeper?

Another pic of the CZ on March 17th with a TD... http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=180570

And another on the same day...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=180503

I have yet to see a pic of the CZ this year without one (other than the one mentioned in my previous post where they added a 3rd sleeper).

By the way, I am not challenging you in this, I am just looking for evidence.

 

[RailFanLNK]

Ok...this may be a question where the "pro's" roll thier eyes, but what is exactly is the difference between a regular sleeper car and a "transistion" sleeper car and why is there so much debate about it? <_< Does it cost Amtrak to operate a transistion sleeper? Or does it save money or make more money etc. I'm just confused about it. Thanks!

 

[printman2000]

Ok...this may be a question where the "pro's" roll thier eyes, but what is exactly is the difference between a regular sleeper car and a "transistion" sleeper car and why is there so much debate about it? <_< Does it cost Amtrak to operate a transistion sleeper? Or does it save money or make more money etc. I'm just confused about it. Thanks!

I think it is referred to mostly as a transition dorm (I think that is how it is labeled on the outside) because most are used a crew only berths. From what I understand, the whole car only has roomettes and no bedrooms and downstairs their is a crew break room where the handicap room us usually. The word transition comes from the fact that on one end of the car, the door is high so as to line up with other superliner cars. The other end is low so as to line up with single level cars like the baggage car or any other single level equipment. Some trains have sold a limited number of rooms to the public, but I think this may just be on one or two trains.

The importance I see in the car is the fact the crew has to be housed somewhere. If this car is not there, they take up rooms in the main passenger sleepers taking away those rooms for sale.

 

[AmtrakCrescent20]

Some trains have sold a limited number of rooms to the public, but I think this may just be on one or two trains.

From what I've heard/seen, the back 8 roomettes in the transition sleeper (17-24) are sold to the public on all superliner long distance trains except the Coast Starlight (when it had/has one) and the Capitol Limited. Of course, if the CZ no longer carries one, no rooms in it are sold!

 

[AmtrakCrescent20]

I'm confused about when Amtrak decided to remove the transition sleepers. I know a while ago they announced that the CS and CZ would lose them, but here (scroll down to the bottom of the page) it appears that Amtrak decided to keep them. But now, Amtrak seems to have removed them. Is there something I'm missing???

 

[AlanB]

From what I understand, the whole car only has roomettes and no bedrooms and downstairs their is a crew break room where the handicap room us usually.

IIRC and I'm not currently able to look at the diagram, the break room takes up the space normally occupied by the 4 roomettes and the family room. The Accessible room still exists, as do the 3 bathrooms and the shower.

 

[printman2000]

I'm confused about when Amtrak decided to remove the transition sleepers. I know a while ago they announced that the CS and CZ would lose them, but here (scroll down to the bottom of the page) it appears that Amtrak decided to keep them. But now, Amtrak seems to have removed them. Is there something I'm missing???

As I said above, I have seen no photographic evidence that the TD have been removed from the CZ.

 

[AlanB]

Some trains have sold a limited number of rooms to the public, but I think this may just be on one or two trains.

From what I've heard/seen, the back 8 roomettes in the transition sleeper (17-24) are sold to the public on all superliner long distance trains except the Coast Starlight (when it had/has one) and the Capitol Limited. Of course, if the CZ no longer carries one, no rooms in it are sold!

I've only heard of sales on the City, Eagle, Zephyr, and the EB. I don't recall hearing about any rooms being sold on the Chief, Capitol, or the Coast Starlight. They also don't sell rooms on the Auto Train's transdorm, but that's due to the much higher crew levels by comparison to the rest of the long distance trains.

 

[Guest]

This summer, when I was on the chief, no rooms in the trans dorm were sold. There was some kind of posting on the door, too.

 

[caravanman]

The 360 Degree photo's in some of the links above look rather cool, once one stops feeling dizzy! As an "old bloke" I am wondering how one achieves such pictures?

Ed. B)

ps, I have to agree that the Amtrak long distance trains seem more of a leisure rail cruise than a reliable means of transport..!

 

[AmtrakCrescent20]

ps, I have to agree that the Amtrak long distance trains seem more of a leisure rail cruise than a reliable means of transport..!

They may seem like a "land cruise" but probably only 20% or less of all long distance train passengers are there just to ride the train/see scenery etc. The other 80% are using it as a means of transportation, either because they can't afford flying but don't want to take Greyhound, don't like to fly, can't reach their destination by plane. It's true that not many business travelers use long distance trains because of the delays.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

The leisure land cruise might be at least a partial fit for those in first class (some version of sleeper). The luxury and comfort of accommodations in a sleeper make tardy arrivals simply a minor nuisance, with the exception of whatever consequences accrue to the passengers' continuing schedule. It does not directly cost them anything but their time.

You cannot, however, stretch that definition to include the much more numerous coach passengers, for whom a very tardy train, with the resultant greatly increased cost of food (a VERY real concern for a poor family with several children), and with the additional time in coach seats, which are certainly more comfortable than airline cattle car seats, but you really start to grow weary (and also become rather pungent) after awhile, and for a parent traveling with a number of children, it can be a nightmare. A cruise for them? NOT!!

Additionally, of course, a cruise ship is generally VERY prompt in terms of timekeeping. There is little or no uncertainty as to when you are going to arrive at the next stop when you are on a cruise. That simile really doesn't fly, if you'll pardon the pun, when using it with Amtrak.

 

[Trogdor]

IIRC, my California Zephyr had three sleepers and no transition sleeper. However, this often happens if the transition car is bad-ordered and there are no others available to replace them. You'll frequently see a standard sleeper in place of a transition sleeper on any Superliner overnight train if the yard didn't have a serviceable transition sleeper available when the consist was made up.

 

[frj1983]

A recent article that I read(can't remember where) about the removal of the transition sleepers said that the crew would be based in one of the regular sleepers, thus creating less rooms available to the public who are willing to pay for first class service. The rumor was that Amtrak would crank up the first class prices to make up for the loss of space and revenue. UGH! Didn't have enough sleeping space available to begin with, now shrink it some more, and we have "really expensive" rooms!

 

[REX]

A recent article that I read(can't remember where) about the removal of the transition sleepers said that the crew would be based in one of the regular sleepers, thus creating less rooms available to the public who are willing to pay for first class service. The rumor was that Amtrak would crank up the first class prices to make up for the loss of space and revenue. UGH! Didn't have enough sleeping space available to begin with, now shrink it some more, and we have "really expensive" rooms!

On my latest trip on the Meteor this past February, our sleeping car attendant said they no longer run crew dorms -- instead the crew sleeps in the regular "revenue" sleeper cars.

Sounds like you are correct -- less sleeper space available for the paying public.

 

[Trogdor]

The Heritage dorms have been retired. The Superliner transition sleepers are still in service as crew dorms. The plan to take transition sleepers off of many trains was cancelled before it was implemented.

 

[wkaemena]

The 360 Degree photo's in some of the links above look rather cool, once one stops feeling dizzy! As an "old bloke" I am wondering how one achieves such pictures?Ed. B)

these interactive 360/180 pictures are made from 4 shots with a fisheye lense. It is the next best being there yourself....