Roomettes

[soberbilly]

Hello all!

My first post and in less than 2 weeks my first trip with a roomette.

This is not a long trip, from Milwaukee to Minneapolis (going to catch the rescheduled NIN concert). Didn't feel like making the drive by myself and just looking to relax. With a sleeper both ways, its costing me $316 + one extra night at the hotel. To fly, would have cost me $800 but one less night.

This way I can sit back, relax listen to G'N'R's Chinese Demacracy on my ipod, have dinner and get into the twin cities at night and enjoy. The bummer part of the trip is the times it leaves each city. I have to leave Minneapolis at 7:50 am after the concert (and the day before thanksgiving) so I"m guessing lots of families/kids etc.

Havn't had a drink in over 25 years so no hang over to worry about, but still like hte idea of being in the roomette and crashing. I expect to have little/no sleep the night before.

I'm as excited about this trip as the concert. I used to ride the train every year to see my grandparents, then went 35 yeras with no train trips. 2 years ago took the train to New Mexico to catch up with my wife & kids who were on vacation. DIdn't have a sleeper (they were sold out).

We ended up being in the middle of the largest snow storm Albequque has had in a century. Was truly a wonderful trip.

Bill

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Edit--Yes, maybe if we caught up with France and got ourselves some nuclear power, we could make trains significantly cheaper than their lame flying counterparts. I don't understand why the most "environmentally conscious" state in the nation uses so much power that they're leading us to blackout city. You'd think they'd want to build nuclear plants, as you can not get more green than nuclear energy Electric trains are a cool invention, and unlike the electric car (which people still clamor for) electric trains are actually practical. Practical is good as Rail Travel needs to endure, because it is the last transit stand to go any real distance without having to fly. Ship travel is gone, rail travel didn't even take off in south america due to planes... Commercial Flying is not what I want to have my transit monopoly.

You're not talking about California, are you?

 California’s crude oil and natural gas deposits are located in six geological basins in the Central Valley and along the coast. California has more than a dozen of the United States' largest oil fields, including the Midway-Sunset Oil Field, the second largest oil field in the contiguous United States. California’s hydroelectric power potential ranks second in the United States (behind Washington State), and substantial geothermal and wind power resources are found along the coastal mountain ranges and the eastern border with Nevada. High solar power potential is found in southeastern California’s deserts.

California is the most populous state in the nation, but its total energy demand is second to the state of Texas.[38] Although California is a leader in some energy-intensive industries, the state has one of the lowest per capita energy consumption rates in the country. This is in spite of the fact that more motor vehicles are registered in California than any other state, and worker commute times are among the longest in the country.

source Wikipedia

PS

If it's so green, lets bury the nuclear waste in your back yard.

 

[the_traveler]

The OP is going

from WAS to LAF

This route is served by the Cardinal, and #50/51 carries 1 Viewliner - and that sleeper is also used by some of the crew (such as from the diner/lounge). Thus, there are very few rooms available for sale. That's part of the reason for the high(er) cost!

 

[Rail Freak]

Last Feb. I called Amtrack about 7 or 8 times til I found my 11 day trip in the H-Room in Sept.Orl-Was-Chi-Seattle-Sac-Chi-Was- Orl = $2,083.00 Lucky, I guess!!!! Lookin for another deal like that!!!! B)

RF,

If your interested, here are the costs of my trips for two in an H Room for this year and next year:

2008: ALB>CHI>FLG & FLG>CHI>ALB $ 1851.30

Via..... LSL/SWC & SWC/LSL

2009: ALB>CHI>LAX, LAX>PDX & PDX>CHI>ALB $ 2494.75

Via..... LSL/SWC, CS & EB/LSL

Yes, I am interested & have a great trip

 

[spacecadet]

I do not believe that you can compare airline travel to train travel.

I agree in some ways, they're not directly comparable. However, they are both:

* modes of transportation to get from point A to point B

* modes of transportation with different classes of service, at different fare points.

In those ways, they are comparable.

On a train, sitting in a chair deprives you of a shower and the ability to truly be recumbent for days. On a plane, that deprivation only lasts for a few measly hours. First class upgrades on a plane pale to those on a train, those certainly can not be compared.

But that doesn't support your argument. First class on an airplane costs much, much more than first class on a train. So the above statement sounds like what you're suggesting is that first class rail fares should be much higher than they are, not lower.

Rail travel is supposed to be cheap, and a Public Service (de facto by creation of Amtrak), so the government does have to subsidize it.

Two things:

Again, rail travel *is* cheap. Nobody is forcing you to buy a roomette. You are perfectly free to ride in coach and pay less than you would on an airline and still have a far better experience (unless you get unlucky and get stuck next to a screaming baby or a snorer, but that's not really anybody's fault if it happens).

Second, that premise is flawed to begin with. Amtrak exists as a "necessary evil" in the government's eyes, in that they can't cancel the program or their constituents go crazy. But they don't want it around and will continue to minimally fund it. So it is in Amtrak's interests to at least *attempt* to be self-sufficient, even though both they and we know that's not possible. The government doesn't "have to" subsidize anything.

Amtrak has to charge fares that maximize their revenue. That means charging up to the point at which the supply and demand curve hits its zenith. It's not a charitable program.

I have the AAA, The Student Advantage (once I finally receive my card), and the ISIC card. They help, but they don't truly combat the egregious pricing. It is cheaper to drive to many places that amtrak serves, and you'd be even more comfortable than in coach, which defeats my purpose in riding the train.

Then drive. Amtrak will fill up its trains regardless.

What you are arguing appears to be two separate but related things:

1. That Amtrak's coach fares should be low enough that all Americans could afford to travel anywhere in the country riding an Amtrak train, regardless of Amtrak's supply of passenger space,

2. That sleeping car fares should be low enough that you personally can afford to buy one at any time and on any route you wish to travel.

There are some obvious inherent problems with both of those arguments that I shouldn't even really need to spell out.

If amtrak claimed to be a high priced elite service, I could understand their pricing, but amtrak markets themselves as the opposite.

They market themselves as no such thing. In fact, they do hardly any advertising at all outside of the corridors, where they usually market themselves as an alternative to business-oriented airline shuttles. (Their signage in Penn Station right now is all about how relaxing their ride is, not how cheap. You can see one of them here - the one that says "our cabins are always depressurized.") This is the most recent long-distance train TV ad that I've seen:



I don't see much that suggests they're a low-cost alternative to airlines or cars. What I do see is a silhouette of a couple sitting in a dining car toasting with wine glasses. That may or may not suggest anything, but one thing I think it *doesn't* suggest is a low-cost, low-amenity standard of travel. They're obviously promoting the quality of the experience, not the low fares.

I have seen ads years ago where they advertised *coach* fares. Never sleeping car fares. They have never advertised their sleeping cars based on their low cost.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

1. That Amtrak's coach fares should be low enough that all Americans could afford to travel anywhere in the country riding an Amtrak train, regardless of Amtrak's supply of passenger space,
2. That sleeping car fares should be low enough that you personally can afford to buy one at any time and on any route you wish to travel.

There are some obvious inherent problems with both of those arguments that I shouldn't even really need to spell out.

1. They are affordable. They are much cheaper than airfare, especially in the low bucket and as long as you dont splurge in the the dining car. It costs me 65 bucks to NYP from ALC-- I could never do that in a car, much less have to deal with the hassle of driving my ass through Manhattan.

Sure some routes aren't as economical. I paid 370 to go ALC-PDX, PDX-SEA, SEA-ALC which was cheaper than a plane, but lacking in many creature comforts. However it was more fun and the true "quality of the experience" came in the fact that there was actually something to look at, as compared to an airplane, and I didn't get lost, as compared to a car. Furthermore once you add in two nights' motels in driving the cost of driving goes down.

2. I've said it before, I'll say it again. "When were sleepers (even pre-Amtrak) 'affordable' ? Hmm?"

To quote the archetypical old coot "Well in my day they only cost 20 bucks"

Well in your day 20 cents bought you a steak. I've done numerous inflation adjustment calculations, and you know what? Sleeper travel was always damn near wallet breaking! In fact, inflation adjusted, roomette costs in the middle bucket are lower than their counterparts in the 40s and 50s, and back then many trains didn't include food in their room cost.

 

[the_traveler]

Just using an example with made up fares:

Flying IAD-ORD = $150 fare and can be done in a few hours

Amtrak WAS-CHI = $100 coach and takes overnight or add $200 for a roomette

Thus, flying is cheaper - right? :huh: Until you add in the "little extra things", such as

You get there at 5 PM, so you have dinner (2 people @ $30 each = $60) - BTW it's included with the roomette. You need to sleep, so you get a hotel for $200 per night - BTW it's included on the train. In the morning you have breakfast (2 people @ $15 each = $30) - BTW it's included with the roomette.

So flying ends up costing $440, while "the expensive roomette" costs only $300!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Just using an example with made up fares:
Flying IAD-ORD = $150 fare and can be done in a few hours

Amtrak WAS-CHI = $100 coach and takes overnight or add $200 for a roomette

Thus, flying is cheaper - right? :huh: Until you add in the "little extra things", such as

You get there at 5 PM, so you have dinner (2 people @ $30 each = $60) - BTW it's included with the roomette. You need to sleep, so you get a hotel for $200 per night - BTW it's included on the train. In the morning you have breakfast (2 people @ $15 each = $30) - BTW it's included with the roomette.

So flying ends up costing $440, while "the expensive roomette" costs only $300!

That was airfare for TWO people?

And just to keep things fare (haha), you don't have to stay in a hotel-- You can take a flight out in the wee hours in the morning.

 

[julieandrews]

A problem for non-US people is that we can't sign up for the Amtrak Guest Reward programme or whatever it's called. I've just completed a lot of Amtrak travel and surely have a whole bunch of points from that but I can't sign up for them. I loved my trips so much that I'm thinking of doing another big one in a year or two. Points gained from my recent trip could really be put to good use if I were allowed!!

I know most US based loyalty/points systems are based within the US only - I guess for some legal reasons, but surely with Amtrak being aimed partly at tourists it would make sense to find a way to made the reward scheme available to everyone?

 

[the_traveler]

A problem for non-US people is that we can't sign up for the Amtrak Guest Reward programme or whatever it's called. I've just completed a lot of Amtrak travel and surely have a whole bunch of points from that but I can't sign up for them. I loved my trips so much that I'm thinking of doing another big one in a year or two. Points gained from my recent trip could really be put to good use if I were allowed!!
I know most US based loyalty/points systems are based within the US only - I guess for some legal reasons, but surely with Amtrak being aimed partly at tourists it would make sense to find a way to made the reward scheme available to everyone?

I'm not saying it will, but perhaps now that they issue the rewards electronically (so you can pick them up at a Quik Trak machine), they might. Part of the problem is that they mailed out the reward tickets before, and AGR didn't want to pay postage to England or Japan or Brazil or ...

 

[Green Maned Lion]

What would 15 sleepers get them? A reinstated broadway and twilight shoreliner?

 

[ralfp]

I know most US based loyalty/points systems are based within the US only - I guess for some legal reasons, but surely with Amtrak being aimed partly at tourists it would make sense to find a way to made the reward scheme available to everyone?

Do you have a friend, family member, or person you know enough to ask a trivial of living in the US? Then just use that person's address and make sure never to have tickets mailed. AFAIK you don't even need the welcome packet that you get in the [snail] mail.

 

[AlanB]

What would 15 sleepers get them? A reinstated broadway and twilight shoreliner?

That, plus perhaps an increase of one sleeper on each existing LD to help offset the loss of revenue space caused by the removal of the crew dorms.

Or perhaps the Palmetto goes back to being the Silver Palm and running to Miami.

 

[DKpartyguy]

I have found that the best way to get a good price on a roomette is to plan far ahead, and to be flexible with your travel dates. Also, I check the rates very frequently when planning a trip. That way, I know what the cheaper rates are for any given trip. I always travel in a roomette for overnight trips.

I often travel on the Crescent, from NYC to New Orleans. The fare is very high at certain times of the year. The cheapest fare I got was $259.00 total, for a roomette, last year in September. I have also paid as high was $599.00 for the same trip, but in November. The fares offered also vary depending on how heavily booked the train is. I start checking fares months before I book a trip, and then when I find a good fare I reserve it.

As for whether or not getting roomette is worth it, that is certainly a matter of personal preference. For me, I always book a roomette for overnight trips, for a variety of reasons.

In a roomette, you are travelling "first-class". If you get a good attendant, they treat you very well, and do provide first-class service. Unfortunately, not all attendants do that. On some trips, my attendant shows me to my roomette, and then I never see them again for the enitre trip (but that is another story for another post!).

But the service is not the main reason I like the roomette. I like having my own little private space, my own sleeping space,

and on some trains, a sink and toilet in the roomette.

It is also nice to enjoy a nice cocktail in my roomette from my "private stock".

You are not surrounded by people like you are in coach, and it is a much more relaxing environment. Also, all of your meals are included. It is nice to just sign for your meal, and not have to worry about how much the meal costs!

I don't spend the entire trip in my roomette, though. I do like to sit in the Sightseer Lounge car when there is one.

All in all, I don't mind paying for a roomette. I love travelling in one, and would never travel overnight in coach again.

David

 

[GORD]

A problem for non-US people is that we can't sign up for the Amtrak Guest Reward programme or whatever it's called. I've just completed a lot of Amtrak travel and surely have a whole bunch of points from that but I can't sign up for them. I loved my trips so much that I'm thinking of doing another big one in a year or two. Points gained from my recent trip could really be put to good use if I were allowed!!
I know most US based loyalty/points systems are based within the US only - I guess for some legal reasons, but surely with Amtrak being aimed partly at tourists it would make sense to find a way to made the reward scheme available to everyone?

Not sure about other countries but Canadians can be AGR members too, my wife an I are. We can't participate in the Amtrak on-line trip surveys, though.

Gord

 

[AlanB]

A problem for non-US people is that we can't sign up for the Amtrak Guest Reward programme or whatever it's called. I've just completed a lot of Amtrak travel and surely have a whole bunch of points from that but I can't sign up for them. I loved my trips so much that I'm thinking of doing another big one in a year or two. Points gained from my recent trip could really be put to good use if I were allowed!!
I know most US based loyalty/points systems are based within the US only - I guess for some legal reasons, but surely with Amtrak being aimed partly at tourists it would make sense to find a way to made the reward scheme available to everyone?

Not sure about other countries but Canadians can be AGR members too, my wife an I are. We can't participate in the Amtrak on-line trip surveys, though.

Gord

Yes, Canadian's are allowed to sign up for AGR.

 

[ralfp]

So flying ends up costing $440, while "the expensive roomette" costs only $300!

Some people value their time. Flying plus a night in a hotel takes less time than Amtrak (CHI-WAS). The time difference of 7 hours (counting for transfers and 8 hours sleep) is worth quite a bit of money. Even at minimum wage the time is worth over $70 for two people.

Yes, Canadian's are allowed to sign up for AGR.

What's this 'are' that belongs to Canadians?