Station Names

[Miami Joe]

Was watching TV and saw that the station was Union Station.

Having been around awhile, it seems there must be at least one station in each state with this name.

Can anyone explain the history behind this and why it's such a popular name?

MJ B)

 

[Guest]

Most older stations are named after the railroad that built them. So Union Station is Union Pacific in the western parts of the country.

 

[battalion51]

I believe that's in correct. The name Union came in when a station brought two or more railroads together under one roof. Chicago, Washington, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Los Angeles, and a couple others all hosted more than one railroad. Whereas stations like Baltimore and New York are Penn Station since they hosted almost exclusively Pennsy trains (with an ocassional LDT).

 

[engine999]

When the word terminal is used instead of station dose that always mean more then one railroad uses that station too?

 

[springer02]

In most cases these were second-generation or later stations that combined numerous railroads. Earlier stations were one station per railroad, and made switching a nightmare. Some big cities, of course, maintained their multi-station arrangements despite a Union Station combining many or most roads, Chi being a case in point.

Always remember the taxi rides in the 1960s between various Chicago stations, depending on which roads we were taking from Detroit to Los Angeles.

 

[AlanB]

When the word terminal is used instead of station dose that always mean more then one railroad uses that station too?

No terminal meant that all trains terminate at that station. They could not run through the station, but instead must reverse direction and leave via the same tracks that they used to enter the station.

Examples, Penn Station NY is a run through station, trains can enter/exit either to the east or the west. At Grand Central Terminal however, trains can only enter/exit from the north. There are no tracks south of the station.

Terminal however, had nothing to do with how many RR's served that station.

 

[engine999]

Thank Alan. Also do you know if Grand Central Depot ever had or was planning on having run throughs connecting it to other railroads? I rember reading somewhere that there were plans to connect the irt to the nyc nearby grandcentral.

 

[AlanB]

I'm not positive, but I don't think that there were ever plans to go south of GCT at the time the station was built. All trains already terminated there when the existing station was built.

Now for probably the last 10, maybe even 20 years now, the dream of NY Railroader's and comission planners has been to build a 2-track connection south from GCT (at 42nd Street) to the Amtrak tunnels under 34th Street. This would allow Metro North to run through to Penn and permit NJT to run into GCT. Of course we'd also need to rename GCT to GCS. :lol:

As for the GCT/IRT connection, this is a long talked about item. If such a connection ever existed, it no longer does today. I however, am not 100% that such a connection ever existed. It may just be one of those urban legends.

After all the IRT is considered heavy rail, while Metro North is commuter rail so the IRT does not fall under FRA regs, but Metro North does. Additionally they use different third rail technology and voltages.

 

[Viewliner]

Of course we'd also need to rename GCT to GCS. :lol:

Good point :lol:

A lot of people already refer to it as GCS, even though that's incorrect except for the Subway (as mentioned in the seven secrets of Grand Central)

It would be nice to have the connection, it probably will be longer before NJT would run since it's basically abandoned that in the ARC proposals.

But Sean is correct, Union Station is typically multiple RR's, Penn Station is b/c of the PRR (even the LD's running there were mostly if not completely operated by the Pennsy anyway, like the Silver Meteor, Silver Star, etc.)

 

[GG-1]

As for the GCT/IRT connection, this is a long talked about item.  If such a connection ever existed, it no longer does today.  I however, am not 100% that such a connection ever existed.  It may just be one of those urban legends.
After all the IRT is considered heavy rail, while Metro North is commuter rail so the IRT does not fall under FRA regs, but Metro North does.  Additionally they use different third rail technology and voltages.

Aloha Alan

Think you and I were on this subject before.

Whey back in the early sixty's, when I lived there, the news covered just such a connecrion between Penn Station and Grand central Station and the IRT. This connection was done to facilatate Delivery of equipment to the IRT This connection at least as of 93 was used as the shuttle. Someware there are pictures of the track beyond the shuttle stations.

I beleve this connection is also described in the out of print book "Under the streets of NY"

 

[AlanB]

Aloha Eric,

The Shuttle tracks never had any connection to GCT Metro North tracks at all. The Shuttle tracks are the original IRT tracks built in 1904 that ran from City Hall up to 42nd Street and then across town to what is now Times Square, before once again running north.

Three of the original four tracks are still in place and are used daily for the Shuttle service. The fourth track, which was originally the downtown express track, has been removed although the trackway still exists.

All of these tracks are at a level that would have required running Metro North tracks through public areas of GCT. Granted by the way, that Metro North didn't exist at that time.

Now the easiest way to connect the Metro North tracks to the Eastside IRT would have been on the east side of the Metro North tracks with the west side of the IRT tracks. To disuade that idea I offer the following quote from Joseph Brennan and his Abandoned Stations website located here.

Much reduced, this is a portion of a diagram of the upper track level of Grand Central Terminal revised to 1952. The area of interest is the triangular area in the upper right. Below it, tracks extend down along platforms to the station concourse across the bottom of the image.
Running along the right side edge is the Lexington Ave subway, with its 51 St station at extreme upper right. Just feet outside the outer wall of the railroad terminal, it is totally separated except by public passageways at the station at 42 St (below the bottom edge of this image).

He's talking about the abandoned station at the Walforf Astoria Hotel and its track leads. He also includes an old track diagram, which clearly shows no track connections between the two lines in question. Mr. Brennan is considered a bit of an expert on old stations, old tracks and connections.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Found this Refference Secret Grand Central Platform

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I would be in favor of not taking the words "Union" or "Terminal" too literally, or too seriously--------- not anymore, anyway.

In the early days of railroading, they may have meant what is described above. For example, "union" meaing several railroads and "terminal " meaning a stub end station.(as opposed to run through).

In real practice, however, it is my impression that such things became rather blurred. I can think of several terminal stations which had run-through trains. (and hosted several railroads, to boot)

For example, in Atlanta there was both a Union Station and a Terminal Statiio. Yet each hosted several railroads, and each had some trains which entered as run-throughs and some trains which exited the same way they entered. In fact at the Terminal Station the majority of trains were run-through.

Keep in mind that there was no national organization like Amtrak to monitor things, unless it would be the Interstate Commerce Commission, and it would not have gotten into things like this, I don't think. So each railroad could call anything anything, and perhaps sometimes did.

The thoughts expressed in earleir posts were probably quite correct---initially---I just don't think they were followed with much consistency.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Here's another thoght. Some stations might truly have been "terminals" when they were so named-in the late 1800's or early 1900's. But as time went on patterns changed, trains were no longer faithfully "terminating" there, but the name remained unchanged.

Similarly, some stations which were called "union station" by the time I came along, and served only one railroad, may have nonetheless hosted more than one railroad years ago when the station was first built. But the name never changed.

We recently had a post on here about the word "express" and I made much the same point----a lot of terms become outdated, conditions change, but sometimes names do not change. I mentioned trains called "Express" by the time I came along, which were far far short of such a glamorous name. .

 

[Joe]

Was watching TV and saw that the station was Union Station.
Having been around awhile, it seems there must be at least one station in each state with this name.

Can anyone explain the history behind this and why it's such a popular name?

MJ B)

Miami Joe,

I believe these names only apply to stations North of the Mason-Dixon line. The stations South were called Confederate Station.

nyuk! nyuk! nyuk! :lol:

Pittsburgh Joe

 

[railman]

I think the term "Union Station" referred to a rail facility that was OWNED by more than one railroad, rather what trains served the facility.

 

[steve_relei]

And don't forget Portland (Oregon) Union Station! It opened its doors in 1896, and I believe it is the oldest major (union) station in the country still open and still serving as a railroad station (Grand Central, Penn Station, Chicago, Washington, LA Union stations, Seattle's King Street--all were built in the 1900s). Prior to Amtrak, it served passenger trains of several different railroads: Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Spokane, Portland & Seattle, Great Northern, and Northern Pacific and a few others.

Today, the station is owned by the city of Portland and is kept in tip top condition; I always enjoy going inside and admiring the carvings, photos of the station from days past, the murals depicting various scenes in Oregon and the Northwest (Mt. Shasta, for one). There are a news/snack stand, Wilf's REstaurant, and various offices for a wide variety of businesses. Ther are 10 Amtrak trains a day, including the Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, and a few Spanish-built Talgo trains that Amtrak uses on its Cascades runs. During Christmas, there are usually additional train runs. The staiton is also a connecting point to Amtrak Thruway buses to various parts of the state and is across the street from Greyhound. In addition to Amtrka, UP and BNSF freight trains frequently pass by the station platforms. There is a pedestrian footbridge over the platforms where people can safely and legally watch all this activity. Needless to say, I am quite proud of Portland Union Station and love to brag about it!

Steve's Coast Starlight

 

[Superliner Diner]

New Jersey has a Union Station, too. No it's not Newark Penn or Hoboken Terminal. Union Station is so-named because it is in Union, NJ. The station just opened last year. They could have just called it Union, but unlike all the other stations on NJ TRANSIT's Raritan Valley Line, they put the word "station" in the station name. I guess that makes it sound more glamourous. Truth be told, it is just a simple high level island platform affair, and there are gauntlet tracks on one side to accommodate the heavy freight traffic that passes by on the former Lehigh Valley, former Conrail Line (now NS).

 

[Superliner Diner]

Some big cities, of course, maintained their multi-station arrangements despite a Union Station combining many or most roads, Chi being a case in point.

....Although if you think about it, Chicago Union Station is essentially two back-to-back terminals. There is only one through track between the north and south sides; the rest of the tracks dead end at the building.

 

[Superliner Diner]

I rember reading somewhere that there were plans to connect the irt to the nyc nearby grandcentral.

Engine999,

You might be thinking of the situation in Brooklyn at Flatbush Terminal, where there was talk of connecting the LIRR to the IRT. This is much more feasible, as the subway and railroad tracks are parallel to one another in the same station.

 

[efin98]

And don't forget Portland (Oregon) Union Station! It opened its doors in 1896, and I believe it is the oldest major (union) station in the country still open and still serving as a railroad station (Grand Central, Penn Station, Chicago, Washington, LA Union stations, Seattle's King Street--all were built in the 1900s). Prior to Amtrak, it served passenger trains of several different railroads: Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Spokane, Portland & Seattle, Great Northern, and Northern Pacific and a few others.

Boston's South Station might be hot on the tails of Portland Union Station, I think it opened not too long after that one and has been a union staton for the entire length of it's lifetime.

And to throw a wrench on the "terminal" and "union station" issue here, Boston's two major stations are both "Union" stations and "terminals" as they both house(d) more one railroad during their time and both are terminals with all trains terminating there and don't contain run through tracks. In fact South Station has been a "union" station continuously since it was opened, having had trains from more than one railroad operated out of it. B)

 

[engine999]

I rember reading somewhere that there were plans to connect the irt to the nyc nearby grandcentral.

Engine999,

You might be thinking of the situation in Brooklyn at Flatbush Terminal, where there was talk of connecting the LIRR to the IRT. This is much more feasible, as the subway and railroad tracks are parallel to one another in the same station.

I rember that, but now that I look back in a book I just read the author mentions some people at the time considerd having a connection to the irt, before GCT was built and the NY Central electrified tracks.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Again, the usages are just not consistent.

In Memphis, there were two stations. the station which was a forerunner of today's Amtrak station (which itself has been remodled, moved around a bit) was called Central Station back then. It hosted several railroads(Illinois Central most prominently) and had run through trains and tracks. The other station, completely gone today, was called Union Station. It hosted several railroads. But it was totally a stub end station, and all the trains truly terminated, ceased to run, at that station. yet it was called "union", not "terminal".

Birmingham had two stations, one named after the only railroad that used it, the Louisville and Nashville RR. This is the one used today by Amtrak. The other was called terminal station, hosted several railroads and I think it had both stub end and run through track, can't remember.

In Chattanooga there were two stations. Each had hosted more than one railroad before my time, but was down to one railroad, each, in my lifetime. Each had totally stub end tracks. (though few trains actually originated or terminated there). One station was called Terminal (stilll preserved today as the "Chattanogoa Choo Choo") and the other, completely torn down, was called Union. Those very two names, but no essential difference in their operations.

 

[steve_relei]

One more feature of Portland Union Station is that it is one of only a handful across the nation that has a Metroplitan Lounge for first class passengers. Oh, and the Portland station has been used as a Union Station since its beginning and all the way through its history and with the coming of Amtrak and continues on today.

Portland Union Station by day.

Portland at Night with several shots of Union Station and the Talgo train by night.

Steve's Coast Starlight

 

[Superliner Diner]

Let's add some fuel to the fire. By our definitions of "terminal" and "station", Washington Union Station is both a terminal and a station. The upper level tracks that have the high level platforms and terminate at the building (Tracks 8-20) are a terminal. The lower level tracks (21-30) with the low platforms that run through the Capitol Hill Tunnel to Virginia are a station.