Station Names

[Bill Haithcoat]

One more feature of Portland Union Station is that it is one of only a handful across the nation that has a Metroplitan Lounge for first class passengers. Oh, and the Portland station has been used as a Union Station since its beginning and all the way through its history and with the coming of Amtrak and continues on today.
Portland Union Station by day.

Portland at Night with several shots of Union Station and the Talgo train by night.

Steve's Coast Starlight

Steve, just for the record, I, too, appreciate the Portland, Ore. station. I have only been there twice,once Amtrak and once pre-Amtrak. but was always suitably impressed with the facilities,the liveliness of it, etc.

Was also impressed with the city of Portland, esp. the second trip--it had done some neat things to spruce itself up, etc, etc.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Let's add some fuel to the fire.    By our definitions of "terminal" and "station", Washington Union Station is both a terminal and a station.  The upper level tracks that have the high level platforms and terminate at the building (Tracks 8-20) are a terminal.  The lower level tracks (21-30) with the low platforms that run through the Capitol Hill Tunnel to Virginia are a station.

It all sort of gets back to a point I made early on, there is a lack of consistency in actual railroad practice, so it is not a good idea to take railroad terms too literally. I had already mentioned train names being mis-leading, like when trains were named "limited" or express".

I must also mention that some of the old pre-Amtrak railroad names were misleading. Sometimes they had city names in them where they did not even go, for example.

A classic was the so called "Frisco Railroad". That was a nick-name, sort of, but was widely used, was painted on the freight cars, etc. The full name was St.Louis San Francisco Railroad. By the way, I realize that many people who live in San Francisco do not like the nickname "Frisco"----I respect that, as my sister lived there for 30 years. But here is the real point-------guess what--------the Frisco Railroad did not even GO to SF. It went from S.t Louis to Oklahoma and other southern points--no where near San Francisco.

So why was it so named? I am not sure---guess its original founders did intend to got to SF, went ahead and named it that way, it did not work out to build that far, but they hever bothered to legally change the name. I think "not changing the name" accounts for a lot of the discrepancies in the railroad world such as we are pointing out.

 

[Superliner Diner]

Well Bill, that starts a whole new discussion here. But in the spirit of what you said, let's remember too that the Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad never made it to Santa Fe, and it still doesn't now that it is Burlington Northern Santa Fe. (That's why Southwest Chief passengers take a van shuttle to Santa Fe from a station at Lamy, NM.)

And with train names, the California Zephyr used to be called the San Francisco Zephyr, despite the fact that the large body of water between Oakland and San Francisco along with the absence of a railroad bridge spanning it made it impossible for the train to reach its namesake city.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Good points, SD. And I did start a new topic on "misleading terms--railroads".

One note about the California Zephyr. That was actually its original name in 1949. During the last years before Amtrak there was serious deteriation in service and it went through some changes like "California service". But Amtrak, after callling it the SF Zephyr, did, as you know, eventually restore it to it's original name "California Zephyr".

 

[gswager]

Well Bill, that starts a whole new discussion here. But in the spirit of what you said, let's remember too that the Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad never made it to Santa Fe, and it still doesn't now that it is Burlington Northern Santa Fe. (That's why Southwest Chief passengers take a van shuttle to Santa Fe from a station at Lamy, NM.)

Superliner Diner, yes, there's track, actually a spur, that led from Lamy (next to the station) to Santa Fe. Santa Fe Southern Railway still uses this line for hauling some freight and passengers (non-Amtrak).

 

[steve_relei]

The original California Zephyr began service in 1949 and ended when Western Pacific withdrew its participation of the train. This happened in March 1970. When Amtrak took over, the Rio Grande continued operating its version of the Zephyr between Denver and Salt Lake. Amtrak detoured from Denver northward to Cheyenne (via having the locomotives run around the train and pulling the train backwards) and then on UP to Ogden (with locomotives returned to the front of the train), where it was turned over to the SP for the rest of the trip to Oakland. It was in 1982 (I think) when the present switch (to the DRG line) was made.

At one time, the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge had raillines on the lower level; sort of an A-train. Western Pacific's CZ and SP's City of San Francisco (as I believe did ATSF's San Francisco Chief) both terminated in Oakland. Passengers would then take either a ferry or a bus across the bridge to San Francisco itself. And it's true that the city's geographical setting had a lot to do with this arrangement. It's never bothered me that these trains had San Francisco (I was born in SF still have empathy with that city) in their names but never actually stopped in that city. It WAS the final destination of most of those people on those trains, and it is quite spectacular riding over the bridge or taking the ferry (options that are once again available to passengers) to SF.

Portland Union Station has always had through tracks. It must be admitted though that prior to Amtrak, all trains actually terminated at the Union Station; passengers had to transfer to other trains to complete their journeys: SP trains the Shasta Daylight and Cascade trains from California; UP's City of Portland and Portland Rose from the east; the combined Empire Builder/North Coast Limited off the SP&S; and the pool trains (NP, GN, UP) from Seattle (and there were more trains). This is one of the times when I think Amtrak did something better than the original private railroads. The Coast Starlight allows people to go from LA to Seattle on ONE train; previously, it would have taken at least three trains to complete the trip. Although Union Station is now served only by Amtrak, those Amtrak trains do go out (eventually) into at least three directions. The Empire Builder(Portland section) terminates and starts at Portland as do a couple of the Cascades Talgo train runs. Other Talgo trains and the Starlight continue right on through after stopping at the station. Oh, and people can make connections from the trains to thruway and greyhound buses at or near the station. Also, a shuttle bus leaves from the station to take people to the Lewis and Clark train at Linnton (yes, I wish the train would come all the way into Portland). Lewis and Clark Explorer Train

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Steve,I enjoyed your commentary.

Two things: the San Francisco Chief, did, in fact, terminate in Richmond rather than in Oakland, just a minor detail. I remember that well because boarding the SF Chief (bus from SF, of course) in Richmond going east was my first time to see or ride in a long distance hi-level car. Quite a treat!

Secondly, thanks for pointing out that Amtrak did construct one long haul train from Seattle to LA (indeed, at first, it went to San Diego. That is one of Amtrak's better accomplishments, as you note.

 

[steve_relei]

Thanks for the info about the SF Chief teminating in Richmond. Still,it coincides with what I was saying: that none of these trains actually went to San Francisco itself. The only ones that did were SP's Daylight trains. In the South San Francisco post office, for many years,there was a mural depicting a SP Daylight train with a Daylight steam locomotive pulling the train with the hill behind and beyond (the train) with the words: "South San Francisco The Industrial City." Of course, South City has had only SP (and now Caltrains) commuter trains stopisince Amtrak. OF course, I don't know if any of the Daylight trains(maybe some of the "milk run" trains) actually stopped there (South City is about 10 miles south of SF proper), preferring to whiz on by.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Good ponts, Steve.I agree that none of the trains from the east went into SF proper.

Only thing I would add is that in addition to the Daylights from SF proper to LA there was the Lark. There also may have been a milk train or two as you mention,I think.

The Lark was an all pullman luxury liner which ran overnight for many years from SF proper to LA.

In later years, of course it declined as did most trains, and coaches were added.

In its earlier years it was known for its premium dining and lounge equipment.

 

[steve_relei]

Another great station is Seattle's King Street Station. It opened in 1906 and served GN and NP passenger trains. Again, it is called station rather than a terminal. King Street was the terminus for the Empire Builder, North Coast Limited, the International trains (to Vancouver,BC)and the GN and NP pool trains to/from Portland. Even with Amtrak, trains tend to terminate at the station rather than passright on through (although they can). Actually,I think some of the Puget Sounder trains go right on through between Everett-Seattle-Tacoma.

Across the street was (is) Union Station,which served UP (the UP pool train to/from Portland) and the MIlwaukee Road's Olympian Hiawatha.

 

[steve_relei]

I dohaveone question: in many ads for WP's portion of the California Zephyr of the 40s, 50s & 60s, it was stated that passengers could visit southern California points for no extra rail fare. WP itself did not go to southern California and was a direct competitor to the SP on the Overland Route. SP had the most direct route to the south; there was also the ATSF. Which railroad did these passengers use if they wanted to exercise that option?

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Not sure, Steve, but I suspect that the railroads being competitors did not keep you from booking your ticket in a way to take advantage of it. For whatever reason, I think they did cooperate with each other on that alternate routing for same price deal.

You had earlier asked a question about South San Francisco(which is nine miles south of SF). I checked a September 1957 Official Railroad Guide and it shows the commuter trains to San Jose stopping there, but none of the long distance trains.

Incidentally,I noticed that in 1957 the Lark had already had coaches added to its consist. but it still looked like a nice train, and I know it was, indeed,all pullman for MOST of its years.

 

[steve_relei]

Just curious: do the schedules say what the first stop out of SF is for the Daylights and Lark trains?

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I don't remember.

My timetables are at home, I am at work now(I do not have a computer at home).

I will look it up over the weekend and let you know on Monday. Have a good weekend.

 

[PRR 60]

Just curious: do the schedules say what the first stop out of SF is for the Daylights and Lark trains?

Per the 1963 public timetable:

The first southbound stop for the Lark (SP 26) was Burlingame (then Palo Alto, San Jose, Watsonville Jct., Salinas, Paso Robles, San Luis Obispo, Guadalupe, Surf, Santa Barbara, Ventura, Oxnard, Glendale, Los Angeles).

For the Coast Daylight (SP 98) , the first stop was Palo Alto, (then San Jose, Salinas, San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Oxnard, Glendale, Los Angeles).