chertling
Lead Service Attendant
Is this the first anyone here has heard of this? It sounds like we may see Talgo trains on the MORR route in the future.MissouriNet.com said:
TALGO trains in Missouri?
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ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Wisconsin wants them, now MO... Wonder how these things will hold up in winter.
Bi-levels are the way to go.
Talgos are like the Midwestern Acela-- they look pretty, they re-vamp things, but in the end they're about as functional as the standard gear and has a lower shelf life.
EDIT:
Functional in the sense of "functional with the tracks they got" not as in total functionality. The Talgos are very capable trains... just not on American freight rails. Perhaps one day I will personally forgive them when I ride a proper one in Spain.
Bi-levels are the way to go.
Talgos are like the Midwestern Acela-- they look pretty, they re-vamp things, but in the end they're about as functional as the standard gear and has a lower shelf life.
EDIT:
Functional in the sense of "functional with the tracks they got" not as in total functionality. The Talgos are very capable trains... just not on American freight rails. Perhaps one day I will personally forgive them when I ride a proper one in Spain.
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Long Train Runnin'
Engineer
They have to be nicer then horizons.
Yes, but it will be harder to see what's on the horizon now.
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
It took me two full minutes to get that one. :unsure:
Most things are......
wrjensen
Service Attendant
I saw that too thought it was odd. It would mean there is 6 sets of TALGO in the Midwest (2 WI has order plus the 2 more WI is asking money for and 2 for MO) When will IL get in the mix? How many set would the need for the Lincoln, Carl Sandburg, and Illini service?
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Let's not get ahead of our Talgos... don't forget the Midwest bi-levels that are being ordered. Those will likely fill out Lincoln, Mich., and other services.
Have the bi-levels been ordered? I like Talgos, but I believed their fixed consists will limit capacity, and create problems on busy travel days such as thanksgiving and Christmas when college students make a mass exodus too and from their campuses an Chicago. The bi-levlels will provide greater flexibility and more capacity.
Now if they order enough Talgo's to provided trips every two hours on every route in and out of Chicago . . . then it might work.
Now if they order enough Talgo's to provided trips every two hours on every route in and out of Chicago . . . then it might work.
battalion51
Engineer
Well if you play your cards right, and build the sets right, it is possible to make the sets easily expandable. Right now the Talgos in Cascades service have end cars that are baggage on one end and power on the other. Then on the end of these cars you have standard North American couplers. In theory, if you either pull your HEP from the engine, or put both service cars on one end you could easily add cars. If the tilting mechanism is turned off you could add on Horizons/Amfleets for crush capacity times. Not likely to happen, but it seems plausible.
Also, don't forget, in busy times (like Thanksgiving) you may be better to follow the Northeast model and add extra trains offering more departures than to expand capacity on one particular train.
Also, don't forget, in busy times (like Thanksgiving) you may be better to follow the Northeast model and add extra trains offering more departures than to expand capacity on one particular train.
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I don't know about the newer Talgos, but the current ones on the Cascades use a passive tilt, meaning gravity causes the cars to tilt. I'm not sure if one can just flip a switch to stop that, or if one must visit each car and literally lock it down to prevent tilting. In fact, I'm not even sure if they can stop it at all, even with a mechanical lock.
Which in fact is what they do on the Cascades service for T'day, they add either an Amfleet set or a Superliner set to the mix to get more departures.
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the_traveler
Engineer
The trouble is that the Talgos only have one truck between two cars. Thus it's impossible to add or subtract cars - especially Horizons and/or Amfleets - because one car will not have any trucks at all!
DaveKCMO
Service Attendant
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i don't care what the equipment is, as long as it's comfortable, spacious, and arrives on time. i agree with previous comments that fixed consists don't really matter if you have the capability to add additional trips. not sure if the missouri contract with amtrak allows that, but it's not a long-term contract so it can be fixed (especially if missouri receives a lot of federal funding!). modot was able to entice the legislature to provide matching funds for the california siding only because there was federal match.
If you anticipate that in normal service you'll need two trains, then wouldn't it be desirable to buy at least three, so that you'd have one available for extra trips, as well as to cover the route whenever one of the other sets needed either routine or unexpected maintenance?
Now, the problem with that is that buying a third train will probably cost somewhere around half again as much as buying two. I'm not a math whiz (meaning, in all seriousness, that economies of scale might lower the cost of a third train a bit), but I don't think any state DOT or other RR transportation agency is going to be able to justify too much surplus rolling stock on hand when every is having a hard time making ends meet.
Now, the problem with that is that buying a third train will probably cost somewhere around half again as much as buying two. I'm not a math whiz (meaning, in all seriousness, that economies of scale might lower the cost of a third train a bit), but I don't think any state DOT or other RR transportation agency is going to be able to justify too much surplus rolling stock on hand when every is having a hard time making ends meet.
wayman
Engineer
No trucks at all? Just like Mag-Lev!The trouble is that the Talgos only have one truck between two cars. Thus it's impossible to add or subtract cars - especially Horizons and/or Amfleets - because one car will not have any trucks at all!
Amtrak trains have hit enough trucks over the years, they ought to be able to salvage a few. :lol:No trucks at all? Just like Mag-Lev!The trouble is that the Talgos only have one truck between two cars. Thus it's impossible to add or subtract cars - especially Horizons and/or Amfleets - because one car will not have any trucks at all!
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What is happening to our state? Promoting rail, being ahead of the curve...
MattW
Conductor
The way Amtrak and passenger service is setup in America right now, I'd personally prefer better fleet interchangeability over these permanently coupled sets. Those work on highly captive areas and areas not likely to see expansion (subways/metros) or at least have the sets so you can split them apart every two cars or so like they do on the subways/metros. That's what irritates me about the proposed Atlanta-Chicago maglev, no possibility of easy expansion, you require a whole new right of way which costs as much or more as the highways!
dart330
OBS Chief
I really have to praise MODOT on this, they are doing a heck of a job on this corridor. Most people had given up on the train when it would take 10 hours to get across the state 2 years ago. Now it is one of the most reliable in the system. I hope they can get the money to double track the entire route and get it up to 90mph.
My only gripe with them now is they are going to expand I-70 across the entire state adding truck lanes. This will require redoing every over / under pass along the way. Would be the perfect time to throw in 2 tracks for real high speed passeneger rail.
battalion51
Engineer
When you're talking about state in your own state though, you don't give a damn about other states and interchangeability. You want your dollars to go to something that's going to benefit your constituents and something you can hang your hat on. If you buy say 10% of the new bi-level fleet yeah you have greater flexibility and your "own" cars, but where's the Missouri pride. Case and point, look at the P-32-8 purchase. 20 units in total were purchased, numbered 500-519. Amtrak paid for 18 of these units, the state of California paid for 2. Well, CDOT wanted those two units to stay in California and serve the people they were intended to serve, not the rest of the country. So what happened? The motors were re-painted and re-numbered. There's a lot of politics involved in these big purchases. Just like Wisconsin, if Missouri wants Talgos, it's their money, and their right. Amtrak will likely still have a say as an operator, and as the guys who are going to use the thing. But it's Missouri's prerogative.
EB_OBS
Conductor
Talgo train sets are expandable. It's just not as easy as moving a few cars around the yard. There's a jack that sits on the tracks and supports the car at one end. By the way the Talgo cars we have in Seattle aren't two cars over one truck, each car has a wheel-set at one end. The other end is supported by the jack when they are disassembled. It can take half a day to bring a train set in and add a car to it, but it is very possible.
battalion51
Engineer
It is possible to do the interchange on the sets (and yes, the Acela sets too). This just isn't done often. I think the point the other members are trying to make though is that you can't just make a hitch and add on 60, 120, 180 seats worth of capacity in under 10 minutes like you could with a "standard" fleet.
Which is why you'd need an entire train on reserve if there was some problem that put just one of the cars in a Talgo train out of service (unless it could be run deadhead). With conventional equipment (Horizon, Viewliner, Amfleet, even Superliner), the bad-ordered car can be taken out of service and replaced, or (if necessary) the train can be operated without the car.
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
Do you think Missouri politicos have any idea how to run a railroad? The Talgos are sleek and look good. Great for marketing how Representative or Senator Soandso bought them for his beloved constituents.
frequentflyer
Conductor
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That's interesting, MoDot wants NEW locomotives to with those shiny Talgos. I was informed on this thread that Amtrak has plenty of motive power so why the request? Ok, sarcasm off, for those who doubted me about trains and aesthetics, point made. And wait till Amtrak actually orders the new bilevels, the states (politicians) too will want shiny new locomotives to go with their new shiny passenger cars.
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