Texas Eagle Conductor: This... is... a... recording.

[stntylr]

I have to be honest, the announcements really don't bother me and sometimes I actually hear important information.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Guess it depends on who's doing the announcing! Some Conductors dont say much, some give Travelogs, some LSAs make brief announcements about Meal Reservations, others repeat the menu from A to Z etc. Generally I dont mind the announcements, most are brief and the "canned" stuff, just like on airliners, is ignored anyway! Since the announcements stop between 10PM and 7AM during Quite Hours, doesnt bother me any! Will say that it seems like the LSA in the Eagles cafe takes his breaks @ inconvienent times, ie right after loading @ major stations such as Austin, FTW etc.Theres a Conductor on the Eagle SAS-FTW that gives a pretty good travelog about everything on the route, even where good Bar-B-Q is sold! (Taylor and the crews pick up food here often while the Train is stopped! :wub: )

Id rather have too much information than None, or even Made Up Stuff :help: that happens on some Trains!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I enjoy most of the announcements as they usually contribute to the life and ambiance of the train. Now imagine how fun it would be if instead of a PA announcement, Amtrak had a Steward walking the cars ringing a chime and making Diner call

 

[AlanB]

Except that the diner may have fallen behind schedule, which is why they don't want those 5 folks just coming up to the diner where there is no place for them to wait until their tables are actually ready.

Instead of alerting the entire train to this rather routine situation they could simply notify the five people who actually need to know.

Great now you've got the LSA instead of trying to get tables ready for people or taking a payment so as to get another table out of the diner wandering around the train trying to remember where the 5 people with the 6:30 dinner reservation are seated. And by the time he actually finds all of them, it'll probably be time for them to come to the diner anyhow.

Or just get those folks seated and let them mull over their options for an extra five minutes. No big deal. Sometimes every last seat in the diner is completely full but that's pretty rare on the trains I ride which include the Eagle. If things are really getting bad then let the slowest table that's sat around the longest know that it's time to get moving.

Yeah, people just love sitting down at a dirty table only to watch the SA come by and change the table cloth and drop crumbs all over them.

Not to mention that while you might well understand, I can tell you that most people sitting there for more than 5 minutes will start getting upset that their order isn't being taken, even if the LSA tells them that he's doing them a favor and seating them early and not to expect service right away.

Which is why they make announcements. Of course there are those that still don't listen and still show up at the appointed time even though the diner isn't ready for them, despite being told to wait for the announcement.

There is no need for everyone on the entire train to be notified that five more people will now be accepted in the diner. No reason at all. If the diner is running five or ten minutes late I'm sure the people showing up will understand. Most restaurants are off by a few minutes so it's not exactly mind-blowing that Amtrak may be off a bit as well. If Amtrak is so spooked about people showing up early or late then maybe they should put an electronic sign up in the lounge showing who they're ready for. Heck, they could put one in each car if they really wanted to. Or simply hand out silent pagers like thousands of other restaurants do. On VIA they simply go through the set of cars that are tied to a specific diner and notify their passengers in person. There are any number of ways to deal with this that don't require constantly addressing the entire train to let a tiny minority know that their table is ready.

As I said originally, the issue is that there is no convenient place for people to wait. It's not a matter of Amtrak being spooked that people show up early or people understanding that the diner isn't ready for them. It's a matter of safety and a matter of clogging the halls with people waiting to be seated when their tables aren't ready because they came early or because the dining car was running behind schedule.

As for pagers, aside from the considerable expense to buy such a system, it would essentially be useless. The signal won't carry more than one car away, which would leave everyone sitting further away waiting for a signal that will never come.

Regarding VIA's approach, that works for two reasons that don't exist on most Amtrak trains. One, it's a single level consist, so they don't have to walk up and down stairs to tell everyone. Second, on VIA you are assigned a specific diner based upon the car you are in. That doesn't happen on Amtrak, except for the Auto Train.

Finally, while VIA may not be making an announcement on the PA, they are still walking through each car making an announcement. So there is little difference, you're still hearing the same number of announcements anyhow. You're just not hearing them on the PA.

I'm not trying to be insulting here; but this isn't about you, it's not being done to annoy you. It's being done because it's what's practical and what makes the most sense for most people. You are either going to have to learn to deal with the announcements or give up riding.

In closing let me say that there are some conductors who do go overboard with announcements and they need to learn to tone things down. But calling for dinner times is an needed and necessary announcement for many reasons that aren’t going to go away and cannot be wished away.

 

[ReidTYK]

I enjoy most of the announcements as they usually contribute to the life and ambiance of the train. Now imagine how fun it would be if instead of a PA announcement, Amtrak had a Steward walking the cars ringing a chime and making Diner call

My mom keeps telling me these stories of the good ol' days, when she would take CN to visit her cousin every summer (She got free sleeper travel because her father was a high-ranking executive for CNCP Telecommunications) and that that was what train travel used to be like, and how since then, so much has changed, but how the joy of train travel has always stayed the same.

..Or something like that.

 

[tonys96]

Nearly all of my trips have been on the Eagle, only a few on the Heartland Flyer...many on the Eagle. Here is my take on the Eagle, though...

Like any and all other services I buy, the people make all the difference! I can withstand a seven hour delay going into SAS with a crew that explains the problem, is responsive and SMILES, but it is hard to stomach boarding a train with the folks loadiing passengers who are surly and mean-spitited.

Couple of cases in point: Ex wife and I boarded Eagle in Dallas once going to SAS, were directed to a coach car that had no seats together, and after asking a few folks to switch so we could sit together, and being rebuffed, we exited the car and explained this to the fellow who told us which car to get into, and his response was a curt "We sold you seats, not seats together"....... we simply detrained and walked toward the station up to a gentleman in amtrak uniform and told him we were going to just drive over to Love Field and fly to SAS and would use the return tickets on Amtrak...no big deal.....Southwest has cheap flights to San Antonio....well, whoever this guy was, he told us "No way, that other guy is an a**hole, you follow me!" and he boarded us in a completely empty coach car, which added passengers in FTW, CLE and AUS....to when we arrived in SAS we had about 30 passengers in our car, while there were only TWO empty seats in the first car. My question to the forum is this: Why was the first guy so adamant that we travel in that specific full car?

And the flip side: Coming back to DAL once, from LRK, the train was quite late arriving at LRK, was due around 3:00am and eventually arrived around 9:00 am, the guy loading passengers looked at out tix, gave us the seat markers (what are those called?) and told us to sit anywhere we desired, in any of the three coach cars, our choice, apologized for the delay, and even SMILED while doing this!! We forgot all about the delay, and had a blast on the trip, getting to see Arkansas in daylight instead of darkness had the Eagle been on time....but it was the FIRST IMPRESSION from the first guy we saw that made all the difference!

 

[Bob Dylan]

They are called Seat Checks/ the OBS handing them out puts the Station code you are riding to on it and putting it on the overhead rack above your seat lets boarding pax and OBS know your seat is occupied and where you are geoing to! After 10PM at night the Lights are dimmed and there are no more announcements, so this enables the Conductor or attendant to be sure you get off at your stop!When you change seats (with permission on most LD Trains!), take your check with you!

And you are correct, Attitude goes a long way when times get tough! Noones perfect, we all have bad days, but as my old grandad used to say: "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar!" Good post!

 

[Anderson]

On diner delays: A backup of about 15 minutes is hardly unheard of, and sometimes the diner can be half an hour behind by the time they're at the back end of the last seating for a meal in a busy diner. Similarly, on the Super-Delayed Chief back in March (the one where we got the Harvey House treatment in La Junta), lunch got off to a very late start because of the lost power waiting for an engine switch...so your reservation times were useless.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Great now you've got the LSA instead of trying to get tables ready for people or taking a payment so as to get another table out of the diner wandering around the train trying to remember where the 5 people with the 6:30 dinner reservation are seated. And by the time he actually finds all of them, it'll probably be time for them to come to the diner anyhow.

No, you have the LSA wandering around. I have the LSA staying put and letting these folks know when they arrive. But that was just one suggestion. Amtrak creates this whole problem when they give people a specific time to show up that is likely to change. If they give them a more flexible seating group like VIA or a ticket number with an electronic sign calling for the next available party or a silent buzzer or whatever they wouldn't be tying themselves down to a specific time they're unlikely to meet.

Yeah, people just love sitting down at a dirty table only to watch the SA come by and change the table cloth and drop crumbs all over them.

On the trains I ride, which include the Eagle, there are generally multiple tables that are simply never used for customer service. Some of them are empty, some are full of Amtrak paperwork that isn't supposed to be there, and some are used as hang-out areas for staff that shouldn't be using them during serving times. There is no "table cloth" to worry about, there's just a giant paper napkin covering up a McDonald's style plastic table.

Not to mention that while you might well understand, I can tell you that most people sitting there for more than 5 minutes will start getting upset that their order isn't being taken, even if the LSA tells them that he's doing them a favor and seating them early and not to expect service right away.

Most? What survey did you conduct to reach this conclusion? I've seen folks patiently wait fifteen or even twenty minutes for their frozen food order to be taken. Just like every other sit-down restaurant I've ever visited. I've only very rarely seen anyone flip out over the wait. Most folks probably aren't even that hungry after doing nothing but sit on their ass for a couple hours. Even those folks who are already starving again aren't going to find any other options until they get off the train.

As I said originally, the issue is that there is no convenient place for people to wait.

Maybe you'd prefer that Amtrak specifically set aside a couple tables or a few chairs or whatever and designate them as the official waiting area for the diner area. That would be fine with me.

As for pagers, aside from the considerable expense to buy such a system, it would essentially be useless. The signal won't carry more than one car away, which would leave everyone sitting further away waiting for a signal that will never come.

I've walked the equivalent of several Amtrak cars away from pager based restaurants and through multiple floors of large and completely unrelated stores and the pagers still worked just fine. On those rare occasions when I somehow managed to walk so far that I was finally out of range the pager beeped until I got back in range. I've also seen restaurants with far smaller budgets than Amtrak managed to procure such systems. Seems like a pretty good solution to me.

Regarding VIA's approach, that works for two reasons that don't exist on most Amtrak trains. One, it's a single level consist, so they don't have to walk up and down stairs to tell everyone. Second, on VIA you are assigned a specific diner based upon the car you are in. That doesn't happen on Amtrak, except for the Auto Train.

VIA does in fact have stairs. They're in the dome cars. It was the job of the dome car attendant to notify the folks in the dome. I don't see any reason why a similarly distributed solution wouldn't work for Amtrak. But I'm sure you'll come up with something.

Finally, while VIA may not be making an announcement on the PA, they are still walking through each car making an announcement. So there is little difference, you're still hearing the same number of announcements anyhow. You're just not hearing them on the PA.

That is completely false. Not only is it not over the train-wide PA, it's also super short and very limited compared to Amtrak. There are exactly two calls for a given meal. First seating and second seating. On Amtrak they call out a new seating as often as every fifteen minutes over the course of up to three hours. Now maybe in your view of the world those are equal numbers of interruptions but to anyone who can look at this objectively Amtrak is making several times as many announcements as VIA.

I'm not trying to be insulting here; but this isn't about you, it's not being done to annoy you.

I never said it was being done to annoy me. I simply pointed out that it is in fact annoying to me and that there is NO PLACE ON THE ENTIRE TRAIN where you can get away from it. But I agree that your post isn't really about me. Or even about Amtrak. It's all about your incredible gift to take even the most simplistic suggestion and intentionally turn it into the most complicated and unwieldy mess possible and then attacking it with the exaggerated zeal and gusto you'd expect from a straw man expert.

 

[ATXEagle]

I almost always appreciate the announcements. I do like knowing when the snack car attendant will be taking a break so that I don't make a trek over there if it's going to closed. It's also nice when they announce that they'll be going on break in 15 minutes, which gives me time to get over there if I want something before the break.

I also like when they announce that the diner times are running late. That way if I have a choice spot in the SS lounge I won't give it up early if it's not dinner time yet.

I tend to get frustrated on trains where there aren't enough announcements or the announcements are hard to understand.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

While there are times I wish I could cut off the 1MC announcements in my room, I realize in the event of an emergency, everyone on board needs to be in the loop and being able to hear announcements could save lives.

 

[AlanB]

Great now you've got the LSA instead of trying to get tables ready for people or taking a payment so as to get another table out of the diner wandering around the train trying to remember where the 5 people with the 6:30 dinner reservation are seated. And by the time he actually finds all of them, it'll probably be time for them to come to the diner anyhow.

No, you have the LSA wandering around. I have the LSA staying put and letting these folks know when they arrive. But that was just one suggestion. Amtrak creates this whole problem when they give people a specific time to show up that is likely to change. If they give them a more flexible seating group like VIA or a ticket number with an electronic sign calling for the next available party or a silent buzzer or whatever they wouldn't be tying themselves down to a specific time they're unlikely to meet.

The only one creating a problem is you, because you don't like having to hear announcements. The simple & cheap answer is the one that Amtrak is already using; making announcements. You're creating expensive solutions to a problem that only you see.

Not to mention that while you might well understand, I can tell you that most people sitting there for more than 5 minutes will start getting upset that their order isn't being taken, even if the LSA tells them that he's doing them a favor and seating them early and not to expect service right away.

Most? What survey did you conduct to reach this conclusion? I've seen folks patiently wait fifteen or even twenty minutes for their frozen food order to be taken. Just like every other sit-down restaurant I've ever visited. I've only very rarely seen anyone flip out over the wait. Most folks probably aren't even that hungry after doing nothing but sit on their ass for a couple hours. Even those folks who are already starving again aren't going to find any other options until they get off the train.

No, I ride a lot of trains and I observe people. And in general at least one or more starts fussing after waiting 5 minutes for someone to come by and take an order.

As I said originally, the issue is that there is no convenient place for people to wait.

Maybe you'd prefer that Amtrak specifically set aside a couple tables or a few chairs or whatever and designate them as the official waiting area for the diner area. That would be fine with me.

I prefer the current solution being used by Amtrak. I have no need to walk down there at the appointed time only to sit someplace to wait for my table to be ready. I'd rather be looking out the window or working on my computer.

As for pagers, aside from the considerable expense to buy such a system, it would essentially be useless. The signal won't carry more than one car away, which would leave everyone sitting further away waiting for a signal that will never come.

I've walked the equivalent of several Amtrak cars away from pager based restaurants and through multiple floors of large and completely unrelated stores and the pagers still worked just fine. On those rare occasions when I somehow managed to walk so far that I was finally out of range the pager beeped until I got back in range. I've also seen restaurants with far smaller budgets than Amtrak managed to procure such systems. Seems like a pretty good solution to me.

Brick & mortar buildings affect the pager signals is a far different way than the stainless steel of the trains cars. Just like a Wi-Fi signal, the pager signal will not carry from car to car. And again, it's a solution looking for a problem. I'd much rather see Amtrak spending that money on something more useful than cutting down the number of times that you have to suffer through hearing that it's time for someone to report to the diner.

Regarding VIA's approach, that works for two reasons that don't exist on most Amtrak trains. One, it's a single level consist, so they don't have to walk up and down stairs to tell everyone. Second, on VIA you are assigned a specific diner based upon the car you are in. That doesn't happen on Amtrak, except for the Auto Train.

VIA does in fact have stairs. They're in the dome cars. It was the job of the dome car attendant to notify the folks in the dome. I don't see any reason why a similarly distributed solution wouldn't work for Amtrak. But I'm sure you'll come up with something.

There is a huge difference between walking halfway up the stairs in 1 to 2 dome cars to announce a meal vs. walking up & down the entire way in potentially as many as 9 Superliner cars.

Finally, while VIA may not be making an announcement on the PA, they are still walking through each car making an announcement. So there is little difference, you're still hearing the same number of announcements anyhow. You're just not hearing them on the PA.

That is completely false. Not only is it not over the train-wide PA, it's also super short and very limited compared to Amtrak. There are exactly two calls for a given meal. First seating and second seating. On Amtrak they call out a new seating as often as every fifteen minutes over the course of up to three hours. Now maybe in your view of the world those are equal numbers of interruptions but to anyone who can look at this objectively Amtrak is making several times as many announcements as VIA.

Perhaps when you rode during the off-peak season there were only 2, but when I rode there were 3.

That said I will grant that VIA makes many less announcements. And up until Congress' interference, Amtrak only used to make 3 too. They still do on the Empire Builder, but all other trains make more.

I'm not trying to be insulting here; but this isn't about you, it's not being done to annoy you.

I never said it was being done to annoy me. I simply pointed out that it is in fact annoying to me and that there is NO PLACE ON THE ENTIRE TRAIN where you can get away from it. But I agree that your post isn't really about me. Or even about Amtrak. It's all about your incredible gift to take even the most simplistic suggestion and intentionally turn it into the most complicated and unwieldy mess possible and then attacking it with the exaggerated zeal and gusto you'd expect from a straw man expert.

The only one with a gift here is you to find fault with everything that Amtrak does and to think up wonderfully expense and incredible solutions to problems that either don't exist or aren't worth the money to fix when there are so many other things that Amtrak should be doing if only they had the money.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I think someone is still suffering the effects (or is it affects) from his train overdose.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The only one creating a problem is you, because you don't like having to hear announcements. The simple & cheap answer is the one that Amtrak is already using; making announcements. You're creating expensive solutions to a problem that only you see.

I'm actually the one who's trying to come up with solutions, such as the following half dozen or so.

-> Seating folks as a group such as VIA does.

-> Seating folks with serialized ticket numbers instead of specific times.

-> Providing a specific area for folks to wait for five or ten minutes until the next table opens up.

-> Using electronic signs to display the current delay or the next ticket number, etc.

-> Using silent pagers to notify folks when their table is ready.

-> Using distributed in-person notifications passed along by each car attendant.

Any of my individual solutions may have any number of very real problems with actual implementation, but all of them are put forward in good faith.

So far all I've heard about "solutions" from you is this.

"You are either going to have to learn to deal with the announcements or give up riding." -- Alan B.

Yeah, thanks for that, you're a real help Alan.

No, I ride a lot of trains and I observe people. And in general at least one or more starts fussing after waiting 5 minutes for someone to come by and take an order.

Then you must be witness to legions of fussy people. Five minutes can be just shy of lightening speed when I ride. That is not to say I have a problem with it. Frankly, I'd be fine with more time to decide so long as they told us what the specials were before asking what we want. As it is I may wait five or ten minutes or whatever and then they come over and immediately ask what we're going to order knowing full well that nearly half of the menu is nothing but undefined boilerplate and is thus virtually meaningless for determining our choices.

I prefer the current solution being used by Amtrak. I have no need to walk down there at the appointed time only to sit someplace to wait for my table to be ready. I'd rather be looking out the window or working on my computer.

What solution Alan? What does Amtrak suggest for people who merely want peace and quiet and couldn't care less which specific heard has the next opportunity at the frozen food trough? I can pay for a room and close my door but those speakers are loud enough to get past it. I can put in some earplugs and for a while they might even work but if I toss or turn (hard to avoid on a train) they'll fall out and then I'm back where I started. And, to be frank, I'd prefer not to be completely cut off from legitimate announcements that do have at least the potential to affect everyone on board.

Brick & mortar buildings affect the pager signals is a far different way than the stainless steel of the trains cars. Just like a Wi-Fi signal, the pager signal will not carry from car to car. And again, it's a solution looking for a problem. I'd much rather see Amtrak spending that money on something more useful than cutting down the number of times that you have to suffer through hearing that it's time for someone to report to the diner.

So I have several solutions looking for a problem. Fair enough. That still sounds a better to me than having several excuses looking for a solution they can prevent from being considered.

There is a huge difference between walking halfway up the stairs in 1 to 2 dome cars to announce a meal vs. walking up & down the entire way in potentially as many as 9 Superliner cars.

I'm not aware of any train in the whole long distance network that has one single person managing nine individual cars. In general we're probably talking around two cars per attendant, right? Maybe three if there's been some sort of major disruption. If a given employee can't walk up and down the stairs several times each shift what are they doing on the train in the first place?

Perhaps when you rode during the off-peak season there were only 2, but when I rode there were 3.

According to VIA early August is still peak season and our train included the full twenty-odd cars of the standard peak-season consist. As you seem to agree one more announcement per meal doesn't change the fact that Amtrak has many times more announcements on the train-wide PA than all of VIA's various announcement methods combined. Even things like "no smoking" only came over the PA after some idiot had actually tried to smoke on the train. The rest of the time it was quiet and peaceful. When a given group or situation displayed a potential for problems they were spoken to in person. The rest of the train never had to hear about it at all. So far as I could tell despite this lack of constant verbal attention and perpetual nagging nobody died of starvation or suffered a broken leg from too much walking or experienced any panic attacks from lack of continuous snacking.

That said I will grant that VIA makes many less announcements. And up until Congress' interference, Amtrak only used to make 3 too. They still do on the Empire Builder, but all other trains make more.

Sounds like the Empire Builder is my kind of train. Just like the Coast Starlight was my kind of train, despite all the petty announcements. The Texas Eagle, however, is most certainly not my kind of train. It's the kind of train I take because otherwise I can't get there from here without flying or driving. Trains like the Eagle need to be run with the best service possible because they simply don't have much in the way of inherently redeeming qualities or long-lived distractions. Or at least that's the way I see it.

The only one with a gift here is you to find fault with everything that Amtrak does and to think up wonderfully expense and incredible solutions to problems that either don't exist or aren't worth the money to fix when there are so many other things that Amtrak should be doing if only they had the money.

It's true that I find a lot of faults with Amtrak that many other members do not find or at least do not express. I don't doubt this is due in part to my individual outlook and disposition. However, I also believe this could be due to many riders having surprisingly little experience with Amtrak's contemporaries. Many apparently don't fly or only fly irregularly. Many have not had a chance to fully experience more modern and/or luxurious trains from other countries. In the past you could claim that it's unfair to compare Amtrak with other carriers but these days Amtrak is sporting prices high enough to be in the same ballpark as several much faster or much nicer trains. Some folks appear so smitten with rail travel on any level that they seem to give Amtrak a lot of leeway when it comes to service levels and irregularities. And of course my own judgement is skewed by being acquired mostly from bottom barrel trains like the Eagle and the Sunset. Sometimes I've been rather turned around or even completely clueless about why Amtrak does things the way they do. In those cases I appreciate hearing about the previously hidden side of the equation. Maybe not right that specific moment, but over time after I've had a chance to fully digest it. Other times I feel even simple and obvious issues get swept under the rug far too quickly. In that way sometimes AU looks more like a public relations delivery system than a genuinely open forum. Any topic is welcome, true, but they're also subject to the PR broom sweeping them under the dead horse rug. I may be a rarity on AU but I can assure you I'm not the only person who is very enthusiastic about the potential for long distance passenger rail but not very happy with Amtrak's specific implementation thereof.

 

[manderson]

Then you must be witness to legions of fussy people.

I usually stay out of these little pissing contests, but I cannot resist pointing out the absurdity of TS referring to others as "fussy." Yikes!

OK, TS -- I'm now braced and ready to be flamed.

 

[boxcar479]

it's funny how this thread started out about how annoying it is to listen to someone elses rant, and as if on cue texas sunset flies right in there.

 

[AlanB]

The only one creating a problem is you, because you don't like having to hear announcements. The simple & cheap answer is the one that Amtrak is already using; making announcements. You're creating expensive solutions to a problem that only you see.

I'm actually the one who's trying to come up with solutions, such as the following half dozen or so.

-> Seating folks as a group such as VIA does.

-> Seating folks with serialized ticket numbers instead of specific times.

-> Providing a specific area for folks to wait for five or ten minutes until the next table opens up.

-> Using electronic signs to display the current delay or the next ticket number, etc.

-> Using silent pagers to notify folks when their table is ready.

-> Using distributed in-person notifications passed along by each car attendant.

Any of my individual solutions may have any number of very real problems with actual implementation, but all of them are put forward in good faith.

So far all I've heard about "solutions" from you is this.

"You are either going to have to learn to deal with the announcements or give up riding." -- Alan B.

Yeah, thanks for that, you're a real help Alan.

No, you're coming up with solutions for something that you perceive to be a problem without even considering that for most people it isn't a problem.

No, I ride a lot of trains and I observe people. And in general at least one or more starts fussing after waiting 5 minutes for someone to come by and take an order.

Then you must be witness to legions of fussy people. Five minutes can be just shy of lightening speed when I ride. That is not to say I have a problem with it. Frankly, I'd be fine with more time to decide so long as they told us what the specials were before asking what we want. As it is I may wait five or ten minutes or whatever and then they come over and immediately ask what we're going to order knowing full well that nearly half of the menu is nothing but undefined boilerplate and is thus virtually meaningless for determining our choices.

Let's not confuse things by adding in more subjects to the conversation; please. And while it's not legions, I can assure you that on most trips I see at least 1 person chomping at the bit if the SA isn't there to start taking the order within a few minutes of being seated. And I'm on Amtrak a lot more than you with many, many more miles under my belt.

Does that make my observations scientific? No. But they are better observations than yours. Sorry!

I prefer the current solution being used by Amtrak. I have no need to walk down there at the appointed time only to sit someplace to wait for my table to be ready. I'd rather be looking out the window or working on my computer.

What solution Alan? What does Amtrak suggest for people who merely want peace and quiet and couldn't care less which specific heard has the next opportunity at the frozen food trough? I can pay for a room and close my door but those speakers are loud enough to get past it. I can put in some earplugs and for a while they might even work but if I toss or turn (hard to avoid on a train) they'll fall out and then I'm back where I started. And, to be frank, I'd prefer not to be completely cut off from legitimate announcements that do have at least the potential to affect everyone on board.

You're going to have to learn to deal with the fact that it's not possible to please everyone all the time. This current solution may not work for your sensitive ears, but it works for most people and it is the cheapest solution available to Amtrak at this time.

Brick & mortar buildings affect the pager signals is a far different way than the stainless steel of the trains cars. Just like a Wi-Fi signal, the pager signal will not carry from car to car. And again, it's a solution looking for a problem. I'd much rather see Amtrak spending that money on something more useful than cutting down the number of times that you have to suffer through hearing that it's time for someone to report to the diner.

So I have several solutions looking for a problem. Fair enough. That still sounds a better to me than having several excuses looking for a solution they can prevent from being considered.

There are many, many other much higher priorities for Amtrak's few meager dollars than worrying about a few people being bothered by announcements for dinner. If Amtrak were flush with funds; fine maybe it's time to conduct a survey to see if there is anyone else besides you who is bothered by dinner announcements over the PA and if enough agree then fine we can start looking for solutions. Until then, you're busy dreaming up ways for Amtrak to spend money that it doesn't have on an issue that probably doesn't bother the majority of those riding simply because you don't like announcements. Please get some perspective!

There is a huge difference between walking halfway up the stairs in 1 to 2 dome cars to announce a meal vs. walking up & down the entire way in potentially as many as 9 Superliner cars.

I'm not aware of any train in the whole long distance network that has one single person managing nine individual cars. In general we're probably talking around two cars per attendant, right? Maybe three if there's been some sort of major disruption. If a given employee can't walk up and down the stairs several times each shift what are they doing on the train in the first place?

So let's see, the dining car is running behind and the LSA needs to tell everyone not to show up without the PA. So we have two choices, the LSA either sends out an SA reducing service and putting the diner further behind or they go themselves to walk the cars something that will also further put the dining car behind schedule.

And while there are attendants for the various cars, typically 1 per sleeper and 1 per 2 coaches, the LSA has no way to communicate with those attendants, save that magical PA that you don't want to hear. So you've got a choice, hear the LSA page every attendant on the train every 15 minutes to tell them to inform their cars to delay people or hear the LSA simply tell everyone not to come to the diner.

Perhaps when you rode during the off-peak season there were only 2, but when I rode there were 3.

According to VIA early August is still peak season and our train included the full twenty-odd cars of the standard peak-season consist. As you seem to agree one more announcement per meal doesn't change the fact that Amtrak has many times more announcements on the train-wide PA than all of VIA's various announcement methods combined. Even things like "no smoking" only came over the PA after some idiot had actually tried to smoke on the train. The rest of the time it was quiet and peaceful. When a given group or situation displayed a potential for problems they were spoken to in person. The rest of the train never had to hear about it at all. So far as I could tell despite this lack of constant verbal attention and perpetual nagging nobody died of starvation or suffered a broken leg from too much walking or experienced any panic attacks from lack of continuous snacking.

Sounds to me like you had a lazy Chief on your train. We had plenty of PA announcements during my trips on the Canadian.

The only one with a gift here is you to find fault with everything that Amtrak does and to think up wonderfully expense and incredible solutions to problems that either don't exist or aren't worth the money to fix when there are so many other things that Amtrak should be doing if only they had the money.

It's true that I find a lot of faults with Amtrak that many other members do not find or at least do not express. I don't doubt this is due in part to my individual outlook and disposition. However, I also believe this could be due to many riders having surprisingly little experience with Amtrak's contemporaries. Many apparently don't fly or only fly irregularly. Many have not had a chance to fully experience more modern and/or luxurious trains from other countries. In the past you could claim that it's unfair to compare Amtrak with other carriers but these days Amtrak is sporting prices high enough to be in the same ballpark as several much faster or much nicer trains. Some folks appear so smitten with rail travel on any level that they seem to give Amtrak a lot of leeway when it comes to service levels and irregularities. And of course my own judgement is skewed by being acquired mostly from bottom barrel trains like the Eagle and the Sunset. Sometimes I've been rather turned around or even completely clueless about why Amtrak does things the way they do. In those cases I appreciate hearing about the previously hidden side of the equation. Maybe not right that specific moment, but over time after I've had a chance to fully digest it. Other times I feel even simple and obvious issues get swept under the rug far too quickly. In that way sometimes AU looks more like a public relations delivery system than a genuinely open forum. Any topic is welcome, true, but they're also subject to the PR broom sweeping them under the dead horse rug. I may be a rarity on AU but I can assure you I'm not the only person who is very enthusiastic about the potential for long distance passenger rail but not very happy with Amtrak's specific implementation thereof.

I've never said that I'm happy with everything that Amtrak does; there are plenty of things that Amtrak should be working on. I've noted many of those things in the past. The difference is that I'm looking at the big picture and the big problems. You're here worrying and nitpicking about announcements.

There are a couple hundred other things that Amtrak should be working on and worrying about, before it ever starts to think about/consider if they're making too many announcements on trains.

 

[AlanB]

-> Seating folks as a group such as VIA does.

We used to have this, until Congress decided to micro-manage Amtrak and much like you, went looking for a problem that didn't really need to be fixed at that time.

-> Seating folks with serialized ticket numbers instead of specific times.

I'm not sure how this helps. Please explain further.

-> Providing a specific area for folks to wait for five or ten minutes until the next table opens up.

There are many other things that Amtrak can do with that space than wasting it for people to stand around waiting for their tables to be ready, assuming that they can even stand for 15 to 30 minutes.

-> Using electronic signs to display the current delay or the next ticket number, etc.

Requires installing signs & wiring for that, wiring that must run between cars, an expensive solution to a minor problem.

-> Using silent pagers to notify folks when their table is ready.

Already shot down as they won't work properly on a train.

-> Using distributed in-person notifications passed along by each car attendant.

As I noted in my response above, there is no way to distribute the message to the attendants, save the PA. The attendants don't have radios.

Any of my individual solutions may have any number of very real problems with actual implementation, but all of them are put forward in good faith.

And I do appreciate that you putting them forward in good faith. But again, you're suggesting solutions to a problem that you and perhaps a few other people actually perceive as a problem. And even if I'm wrong and by some miracle there is a majority who believe that this is a problem, it's a problem that again is so far down on the totem pole that spending even a dime on it at this point in time is too much money.

 

[DET63]

Her radio attitude wasn't much better as I quickly picked up on the scanner her being terse with the Conductor, Engineer and even Omaha. And you don't want to cork off the boys and girls in Omaha.

Maybe it was "that time of the month," if you know what I mean.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

No, you're coming up with solutions for something that you perceive to be a problem without even considering that for most people it isn't a problem.

I don't make a point of asking everyone what they think of the announcements so I have no idea what "most people" want. Nor have I ever claimed to have such knowledge. You, however, don't seem to have any problem at all telling anyone what most everyone else wants. I guess you're just a clairvoyant genius or something.

I'm on Amtrak a lot more than you with many, many more miles under my belt.

And yet you continue to display just as much bias as I do. I guess more mileage doesn't make you any more objective after all.

You're going to have to learn to deal with the fact that it's not possible to please everyone all the time.

Yeah, that attitude seems to be doing wonders for Amtrak doesn't it?

This current solution may not work for your sensitive ears, but it works for most people and it is the cheapest solution available to Amtrak at this time.

The cheapest solution to what? People who are unable to read their own watch and who might faint if they walked three cars and couldn't immediately gorge themselves silly?

There are many, many other much higher priorities for Amtrak's few meager dollars than worrying about a few people being bothered by announcements for dinner. If Amtrak were flush with funds; fine maybe it's time to conduct a survey to see if there is anyone else besides you who is bothered by dinner announcements over the PA and if enough agree then fine we can start looking for solutions. Until then, you're busy dreaming up ways for Amtrak to spend money that it doesn't have on an issue that probably doesn't bother the majority of those riding simply because you don't like announcements. Please get some perspective!

At no time have I ever said or implied that any of this should be Amtrak's number one priority. This whole argument is nothing but yet another of your endless series of straw man tactics to make up a priority list that never existed prior to your own decision to dream one up.

I've never said that I'm happy with everything that Amtrak does.

I've never seen anything beyond the most mild of criticisms from you during my time here. If that wasn't always the case I'd be interested to read what you said before you chose the path of blind loyalty.

There are a couple hundred other things that Amtrak should be working on and worrying about, before it ever starts to think about/consider if they're making too many announcements on trains.

Like what?

 

[AlanB]

No, you're coming up with solutions for something that you perceive to be a problem without even considering that for most people it isn't a problem.

I don't make a point of asking everyone what they think of the announcements so I have no idea what "most people" want. Nor have I ever claimed to have such knowledge. You, however, don't seem to have any problem at all telling anyone what most everyone else wants. I guess you're just a clairvoyant genius or something.

Nope. I'm observant and I follow multiple forums. In the last 10 years, there have probably been a handful of complaints about dinner announcements.

I'm on Amtrak a lot more than you with many, many more miles under my belt.

And yet you continue to display just as much bias as I do. I guess more mileage doesn't make you any more objective after all.

You only see bias on my part because it conflicts with your views.

This current solution may not work for your sensitive ears, but it works for most people and it is the cheapest solution available to Amtrak at this time.

The cheapest solution to what? People who are unable to read their own watch and who might faint if they walked three cars and couldn't immediately gorge themselves silly?

Just leave out all the other reasons that you've already been given as to why things are the way they are.

There are many, many other much higher priorities for Amtrak's few meager dollars than worrying about a few people being bothered by announcements for dinner. If Amtrak were flush with funds; fine maybe it's time to conduct a survey to see if there is anyone else besides you who is bothered by dinner announcements over the PA and if enough agree then fine we can start looking for solutions. Until then, you're busy dreaming up ways for Amtrak to spend money that it doesn't have on an issue that probably doesn't bother the majority of those riding simply because you don't like announcements. Please get some perspective!

At no time have I ever said or implied that any of this should be Amtrak's number one priority. This whole argument is nothing but yet another of your endless series of straw man tactics to make up a priority list that never existed prior to your own decision to dream one up.

Funny, several others have already chimed in with the same idea that you've decided that this is a priority for Amtrak. Translation, I'm not the only one thinking this.

I've never said that I'm happy with everything that Amtrak does.

I've never seen anything beyond the most mild of criticisms from you during my time here. If that wasn't always the case I'd be interested to read what you said before you chose the path of blind loyalty.

Try reading.

 

[Michael061282]

Then you must be witness to legions of fussy people.

I usually stay out of these little pissing contests, but I cannot resist pointing out the absurdity of TS referring to others as "fussy." Yikes!

OK, TS -- I'm now braced and ready to be flamed.

I can do nothing but agree here.

but WOW.. When all we have left to complain about it anncouncements? how cool is that!

 

[Railroad Bill]

I just wish they would turn up the sound on the speakers so I could hear the announcements :giggle: :lol: :lol:

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Nope. I'm observant and I follow multiple forums.

Oh, then I guess we're all experts here.

You only see bias on my part because it conflicts with your views.

I see bias on both our parts. I'm extremely skeptical of Amtrak's management style and you're extremely skeptical of anyone who actively challenges the status quo.

Funny, several others have already chimed in with the same idea that you've decided that this is a priority for Amtrak. Translation, I'm not the only one thinking this.

I don't know what you're talking about nor do I care. If you need help fielding your end of the debate then I guess that's your problem.

Try reading.

Try linking.

 

[pennyk]

I, too, like announcements, and wish there were more announcements on the silver meteor (my home train). It is my understanding that the PA system is different on viewliners than on superliners. Is that correct, Alan?