Texas Eagle over Trinity Railway Express (TRE) tracks

[RobertB]

I can't find any updates on the situation with Amtrak working with and/or fighting against the local transit authorities, on the plan to move the Texas Eagle off of the crowded UP tracks between Dallas and Fort Worth, and onto the TRE tracks. It's a complete no-brainer - eliminate delays due to freight, and the crazy maneuvers through the Tower 55 junction required to back the train out of the Fort Worth station. But it's being held up by liability issues: nobody wants to pay the bill in case of a disaster.

The last update I can find online is this pair of Fort Worth Star-Telegram links (an article and related blog post). Those were in August 2012, and a deadline at the end of the month was approaching - Federal stimulus funds were due to evaporate. But no news since then.

The topic was recently discussed in this thread, but it devolved into a political discussion over the relative primary coloration of various states. (***?)

Has anyone heard any news on this issue? How about the idea of using the same tracks to run the Hearland Flyer from OKC to DAL via FTW?

 

[SubwayNut]

This change desperately needs to happen, the other hurdle is the TRE doesn't want a delayed Amtrak train messing up their schedule since the railroad still has single tracking in places.

You think they could route Amtrak via TRE in a pilot program at least on Sundays when TRE doesn't even run.

 

[printman2000]

I think an agreement was actually reached. However, I believe Amtrak will not use TRE until they finish double-tracking it.

At least this is what I remember hearing.

 

[printman2000]

Another thread...

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/49626-latest-texas-eagle-tre-news/

 

[saxman]

My inside source says an agreement has been reached. And I heard this just a few weeks ago. Not sure about the double tracking part because that's still years away. Also the crews will have to get qualified on the new route as well.

 

[stntylr]

The Heartland Flyer does use the TRE route when it goes to Dallas for the Texas-OU game. Otherwise there's not much need to go to Dallas. There is not a place to store the train on the layover there and there is a crew base and Amtrak service facilities in Fort Worth plus passengers can get to Dallas easily enough on the TRE on most days or the TE on Sundays.

 

[RobertB]

Another thread...
http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/49626-latest-texas-eagle-tre-news/

Dang it, that's just what I was looking for, but my Google-fu was too weak. Thanks! (Do the mods ever consider merging threads?)

Here's a follow-up article from the same month that isn't definitive, but looks like good news:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/08/15/4183488/officials-on-track-to-settle-amtrak.html

Bill Glavin, Texas Department of Transportation rail division director, said his agency is stepping in and asking the Federal Railroad Administration to go ahead and obligate the $7.2 million in federal funds to the state. That agreement, Glavin said, would be signed only by officials from the state transportation department and Federal Railroad Administration.
That move would obligate the money before a federally-imposed Aug. 31 deadline, preventing the money from being sent back to Washington and reallocated to projects elsewhere in the nation, he said. It also would buy time for Amtrak and TRE to resolve their differences over who should shoulder legal liability on the TRE line.

Amtrak and TRE could then sign a separate agreement later, clearing the way for construction to begin on double-tracking the TRE line to help make more room for Amtrak trains.

 

[Nathanael]

My inside source says an agreement has been reached. And I heard this just a few weeks ago. Not sure about the double tracking part because that's still years away. Also the crews will have to get qualified on the new route as well.

That would be nice. The big problem as far as I can telle is the state of Texas liability cap for The T and DART (owners/operators of TRE). In case of an accident, the passengers would all sue Amtrak because Amtrak doesn' t have a liability cap while The T/DART do. So, even if the accident was entirely the fault of TRE and only injured TRE passengers, Amtrak would suffer. This is obviously unacceptable to Amtrak. It's the same problem which happened in Florida.

If Amtrak and TRE are put on equal footing with respect to liability, then I'm sure some agreement can be worked out. Amtrak usually prefers the "no-fault" rule, like they have with the freights, where each company is responsible for its own customers and employees. However, I would expect that Amtrak would be OK with an "at-fault" rule, where the company responsible for the accident pays. What is no good is the "Amtrak pays regardless of who's at fault" rule, which would be the default due to the Texas liability cap (vs. unlimited Amtrak liabiliity).

Apparently TxDOT managed to get the deadline extended by manuevering, but if the liability issue isn't resolved, the money will not get spent and the train will not move to the TRE tracks. I'm not sure who needs to resolve it. In Florida, the state legislature had to waive the liability cap. In Texas, I don't know if that's necessary or if DART/TRE can voluntarily waive the liability cap.

 

[anne warren]

I love riding Texas Eagle from LA to Mineola or Longview, TX to see grandkids. On 24 May I start my 13th roundtrip with my return trip starting back on 17th June. Are you talking about taking us Amtrak passengers off the Amtrak train at Dallas instead of us going to San Antonio & on to either of my usual stops? Does that mean we would have to get off the train including the disabled lower level seats & TX Eagle would end there? It is awfully disruptive esp for severely disabled & elderly. I really enjoyed the trips much more when we departed LA at 3pm- better for customers with kids. At 3 we could board them on the train & they look out windows, use up their energy & see the boneyard which is quite popular. Now we have a pain in the butt process that never stays the same. Sometimes we have to wait for a line to form & be assigned seats then sit for hours waiting. I always look forward to the chicken dinner in the evening but now, leaving at 10pm means no meal till the next morning. By 10pm the kids are finally dropping off to sleep & the parents have to wake them to board. We get cattle called at the last minute to board & instead of us being able to get there & board comfortably-we are rushed POW style to the cars, everyone is rushed & drop things, yelling, kids crying, & trying to organize. Alarm buttons never work & parents never supervise kids. Having to switch trains would only bring grief. Is there any way to just use different tracks & avoid freights. We love the stop with the burrito lady (Del Rio or El Paso). Please don't make any major changes-many of us are regular riders-I do at least 2 trips a yr, more when I can. It would be great to make an Amtrak restaurant at LA so we could get dinner before the train at 10pm. I know about Trax but that's expensive, there is Subway & pretzels-but chicken dinner is special. Maybe put kid play car on train &/or extra car to allow for more disabled -most don't know about it then get overcrowded be due to unplanned extra disabled/ wheel chairs/ med supplies then start throwing in other passenger luggage & service mutts. We try to follow luggage rules but people are on long term or med needs take space. 1 trip ticket people took 1 stub then sent us to train where the other stub was taken. We need more crewmembers per train-disabled care gets food last & usally most is gone. Anyway-last idea-advertise to the troops-disabled vets cannot get to bathrooms on planes or care for themselves. On Amtrak they can get to restrooms, get meal at seat, get wheelchair on/off train at breaks & travel more safely but no one tells them. Also with VeteransAdvantage I get 15% off-active duty troops only get 10% both should get same. Publicize benefits to the military and get more business. Service mutts get in the way-allow 1 free co-rider for each who really need it-mutts cannot tell you passengers emergency or open/close restroom door-also monster kids push the trash bin in restroom in front of toilet to block disabled use-need stiff penalties to family's to control kids. The seats are very rough to sleep on-please pad the metal bar in middle and allow disabled with leg problems to keep leg elevated-ex-I have had leg surgery & cardiologists says leg must be elevated for blood clotting problem but I can't afford to pay for 2 seats. My legs swell til I can't see ankles & can't have legs down long-1 extra car would allow kid play space so they don't spend all day crowded & crying & lower level will hold up to 14 more passengers to allow for med problems such as I mentioned. Anyway-please do not make changes to other trains -just too complicated & let us know what track and let us board as soon as train pulls in so less trauma & crowding at the door. Hard on crew & passengers. Yor are taking a lot of new passengers who abandoned airlines-you will lose them with too many rules & crowding. I even have a lot of my military pilots taking Amtrak with their families so they can really see the country instead of clouds. Thanks. Anne Warren

 

[daveyb99]

I love riding Texas Eagle from LA to Mineola or Longview, TX to see grandkids. On 24 May I start my 13th roundtrip with my return trip starting back on 17th June. Are you talking about taking us Amtrak passengers off the Amtrak train at Dallas instead of us going to San Antonio & on to either of my usual stops? Does that mean we would have to get off the train including the disabled lower level seats & TX Eagle would end there? ...

Means nothing of the sort. This only covers what tracks AMTRAK would operate on between Fort Worth and Dallas.

 

[daveyb99]

I can't find any updates on the situation with Amtrak ... on the plan to move the Texas Eagle off of the crowded UP tracks between Dallas and Fort Worth, and onto the TRE tracks.

I have emailed Gordon several times over the last few months, but no response and no updated articles.

 

[daveyb99]

That would be nice. The big problem as far as I can tell is the state of Texas liability cap for The T and DART (owners/operators of TRE). In case of an accident, the passengers would all sue Amtrak because Amtrak doesn't have a liability cap while The T/DART do. So, even if the accident was entirely the fault of TRE and only injured TRE passengers, Amtrak would suffer. This is obviously unacceptable to Amtrak. It's the same problem which happened in Florida.

How about explaining how a TRE passenger on a TRE train on TRE tracks involved in an accident NOT involving AMTRAK can sue AMTRAK ... that just does not compute.

 

[Shanghai]

I was in Dallas in April. I inquired about the TE & TRE sharing track to Centerpoint Station where

the bus to the airport is available. No one knew anything about the change. I thought I had read

that Centerpoint would become an Amtrak stop, but again no one knew anything about that.

 

[MikefromCrete]

That would be nice. The big problem as far as I can tell is the state of Texas liability cap for The T and DART (owners/operators of TRE). In case of an accident, the passengers would all sue Amtrak because Amtrak doesn't have a liability cap while The T/DART do. So, even if the accident was entirely the fault of TRE and only injured TRE passengers, Amtrak would suffer. This is obviously unacceptable to Amtrak. It's the same problem which happened in Florida.

How about explaining how a TRE passenger on a TRE train on TRE tracks involved in an accident NOT involving AMTRAK can sue AMTRAK ... that just does not compute.

A lawyer would find a way.

 

[the_traveler]

That would be nice. The big problem as far as I can tell is the state of Texas liability cap for The T and DART (owners/operators of TRE). In case of an accident, the passengers would all sue Amtrak because Amtrak doesn't have a liability cap while The T/DART do. So, even if the accident was entirely the fault of TRE and only injured TRE passengers, Amtrak would suffer. This is obviously unacceptable to Amtrak. It's the same problem which happened in Florida.

How about explaining how a TRE passenger on a TRE train on TRE tracks involved in an accident NOT involving AMTRAK can sue AMTRAK ... that just does not compute.

A lawyer would find a way.

I agree!

If someone is involved in a plane crash on (say) United at JFK airport, why is a lawsuit filed to include:

1. United Airlines
2. JFK Airport
3. the Port Authority of New York
4. the City of New York
5. the FAA
6. Boeing/Airbus/etc...
7. Etc, etc, etc...

And if someone hits your car (while driving in CA), I bet the lawsuit may include the following:

1. The driver of the other car,
2. his or her insurance company,
3. the CADOT,
4. the CHP,
5. the county of _________,
6. the city of ________,
7. the car manufacturer,
8. Etc, etc, etc...

 

[Bob Dylan]

Someone has to pay for Pennys Florida Condo, Yoga and Pilate Sessions, LDTrain Trips and visits to Whole Foods and 5 Star Hotels! :giggle:

 

[battalion51]

I was in Dallas in April. I inquired about the TE & TRE sharing track to Centerpoint Station wherethe bus to the airport is available. No one knew anything about the change. I thought I had read

that Centerpoint would become an Amtrak stop, but again no one knew anything about that.

One of the things I've kicked around is that it would be logical to have the train stop at Centreport. There is a bus that stops there that takes folks right in to the airport, which would help improve Amtrak's connectivity to/from small communities. This would also make it so that folks could have easier access to areas like Arlington, Grand Prarie, and Mid-Cities. I don't know if this has actually been proposed, but it is logical.

 

[the Other Mike]

This is not the 1st thread where "Amtrak's chicken dinner" is spoken of in Heavenly terms.

While some Amtrak food isn't bad, I have never eaten an Amtrak meal that is something to write about other than to say which choice is the lesser of two evils.

There's a reason the CoNO is called the chicken bone express and it has nothing to do with Amtrak's chicken dinner.

Am I THAT much of a food snob or does the rest of the country outside of New Orleans consider Applebee's, Olive Garden and Macaroni Grill to be fine dining ?

 

[CHamilton]

Am I THAT much of a food snob or does the rest of the country outside of New Orleans consider Applebee's, Olive Garden and Macaroni Grill to be fine dining ?

Mike, a lot of the rest of the country does indeed consider those places to be fine dining. New Orleans has, IMHO, the best food anywhere on the continent, and many big cities (Seattle, New York, Chicago, San Francisco...) have some great food options, but if you live in, say, Pottsville, PA, someplace like Olive Garden may be as good as it gets. Sad but true.

 

[Steve4031]

This is not the 1st thread where "Amtrak's chicken dinner" is spoken of in Heavenly terms.
While some Amtrak food isn't bad, I have never eaten an Amtrak meal that is something to write about other than to say which choice is the lesser of two evils.

There's a reason the CoNO is called the chicken bone express and it has nothing to do with Amtrak's chicken dinner.

Am I THAT much of a food snob or does the rest of the country outside of New Orleans consider Applebee's, Olive Garden and Macaroni Grill to be fine dining ?

And what does this have to do with the Texas Eagle running over the TRE? I am riding the Texas Eagle this summer, and just logged in to AU, and saw new posts and was hoping for an update. And got that. So I'm not so happy right now.

 

[the Other Mike]

This is not the 1st thread where "Amtrak's chicken dinner" is spoken of in Heavenly terms.
While some Amtrak food isn't bad, I have never eaten an Amtrak meal that is something to write about other than to say which choice is the lesser of two evils.

There's a reason the CoNO is called the chicken bone express and it has nothing to do with Amtrak's chicken dinner.

Am I THAT much of a food snob or does the rest of the country outside of New Orleans consider Applebee's, Olive Garden and Macaroni Grill to be fine dining ?

And what does this have to do with the Texas Eagle running over the TRE? I am riding the Texas Eagle this summer, and just logged in to AU, and saw new posts and was hoping for an update. And got that. So I'm not so happy right now.

It was written of in a previous post IN THIS THREAD, along with alot of other "stuff", but you chose to single ME out ?

As I stated, this isn't the 1st thread I've read it in. I apoligize that MY post makes you mad......but makes me wonder about who posted earlier under "guest"

 

[VentureForth]

This is not the 1st thread where "Amtrak's chicken dinner" is spoken of in Heavenly terms.

While some Amtrak food isn't bad, I have never eaten an Amtrak meal that is something to write about other than to say which choice is the lesser of two evils.

There's a reason the CoNO is called the chicken bone express and it has nothing to do with Amtrak's chicken dinner.

Am I THAT much of a food snob or does the rest of the country outside of New Orleans consider Applebee's, Olive Garden and Macaroni Grill to be fine dining ?

And what does this have to do with the Texas Eagle running over the TRE? I am riding the Texas Eagle this summer, and just logged in to AU, and saw new posts and was hoping for an update. And got that. So I'm not so happy right now.

It was written of in a previous post IN THIS THREAD, along with alot of other "stuff", but you chose to single ME out ?As I stated, this isn't the 1st thread I've read it in. I apoligize that MY post makes you mad......but makes me wonder about who posted earlier under "guest"

Now now.... This was written in reply to a sidetrack by our guest poster. I understand where the contention is because it was hard to find where chicken was even referenced in the thread because the guest post was almost a single run on sentence with no paragraph breaks. I didn't even read that whole post because it was grammatically difficult to follow. The use of the Quote feature, edited to mark the point where chicken was brought up, could have been helpful.

Back to the issue at hand, I have also requested the author to revisit this subject and write a follow up. He has not even replied to my email. Unless there is an investigative journalist on AU with the time and funds to track this story down, we're at the mercy of finding out what has happened after the fact rather than tracking progress in real time.

 

[RobertB]

Oh wow, I had no idea where the meta-chicken discussion came from. It was all because of the guest who thought that she would have to deboard in Dallas and miss her dinner.

I always look forward to the chicken dinner in the evening but now, leaving at 10pm means no meal till the next morning.

Well, I'm glad we were able to clear that up for her!

Meanwhile:

Back to the issue at hand, I have also requested the author to revisit this subject and write a follow up. He has not even replied to my email. Unless there is an investigative journalist on AU with the time and funds to track this story down, we're at the mercy of finding out what has happened after the fact rather than tracking progress in real time.

Maybe you'd have better luck with the Dallas Observer, the local alternative newsweekly. They have never shied away from jostling the local applecarts. Drop a note to Jim Schutze - if there's incompetence at work, he'll root it out.

Also on the Dallas side would be Robert Willonsky at the (mainstream daily) Dallas Morning News. He used to be a big gun at the Observer before being assimilated by the local Borg Collective, but he's still got an investigative streak.

 

[Shanghai]

Someone has to pay for Pennys Florida Condo, Yoga and Pilate Sessions, LDTrain Trips and visits to Whole Foods and 5 Star Hotels! :giggle:

Jim,

You forgot the beer!!

 

[Nathanael]

That would be nice. The big problem as far as I can tell is the state of Texas liability cap for The T and DART (owners/operators of TRE). In case of an accident, the passengers would all sue Amtrak because Amtrak doesn't have a liability cap while The T/DART do. So, even if the accident was entirely the fault of TRE and only injured TRE passengers, Amtrak would suffer. This is obviously unacceptable to Amtrak. It's the same problem which happened in Florida.

How about explaining how a TRE passenger on a TRE train on TRE tracks involved in an accident NOT involving AMTRAK can sue AMTRAK ... that just does not compute.

The worrisome situation is where a TRE train, run by a negligent TRE engineer (who is perhaps speeding and ignoring signals), smashes into an Amtrak train. Perhaps the Amtrak engineer cleverly manages to handle his train to avoid injury to Amtrak passengers. The TRE passengers sue Amtrak because... well, because they can't get any money from TRE, due to the Texas liability cap, so they're fishing around for someone to sue. Why on God's green Earth should Amtrak have to deal with that?