Texas Eagle to Begin Using TRE Route FTW-DAL!!

[tonys96]

I understand and appreciate all of your comments. Perhaps we will close this just agreeing to disagree.

I'm confused, however, at the following statement:

Then there is the parking dilemma. By contract, the TRE lots are "No Overnight Parking Allowed" and cars are towed after the latest departure/arrival each night. So Amtrak riders would need a lift to and from these stations. To change this would require a vote of all of the partner cities, the DART board and the board of the T, which would be difficult, if not impossible.

This sounds like a problem for TRE riders today that go to Centreport to transfer to DFW, not Amtrak riders who would get on and off at stations way outside of the TRE Zone like the five cities I've already mentioned. So far as I know, each of those offer free parking.

Correct! For those coming from Cleburne, Minneola, etc. But how would you keep people from wanting to board at Centerport?
I agree that it would be great to have Amtrak stop there, just disagree that the logistics would be as easy as you claim. It is a major hassle as is with luggage going from TRE to DFW on the bus. And if the Eagle were to be on time, pax would have to wait for the next TRE scheduled arrival to catch that bus. They could not schedule one to meet Amtrak with the Eagle's hit and miss arrival times.

However, with what I mentioned earlier, it is simply not going to happen anytime soon. And by soon, I mean 10 to 20 years, if ever. No political will for it to happen.

To your first point, almost nobody lives near Centreport. They are a few apartments, but most within walking distance. I don't see that as an issue, but one that could be mitigated with a full up Amtrak station installed if the demand existed. But there is no free parking at Fort Worth or Dallas, either.
I agree with just about everything you are saying about political will, but it's ok to have the discussion. This forum ain't going to change nuthin'. But if there are a couple of boots on the ground that feel the same way I do, maybe it won't take 20 years. After all, it did take nearly 20 years just to get Amtrak moved from the UP to the old Rock Island.

You are correct about free parking in Dallas. However there IS parking. Just paid. There is no overnight parking at Centerport at all, free or paid. So a driver would still have to go to Dallas or Ft. Worth (where there is paid and free parking).

So a Centerport stop on Amtrak will help the few pax who are going to DFW, who do not have checked bags, and/or care to schlep them from the train to the bus. I agree with you on that! Still not gonna happen in my lifetime.

The free parking in Ft. Worth is in Sundance Square. Pick up your vehicle after hours on weekdays or anytime at all on weekends and all of your parking, no matter when it started, is free.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Can't you also park free across the tracks from the old T&P Station ( a beautiful place, now condos,worth a ride on TRE or a walk to see it!)which is the starting/ending Station for the TRE in FTW?

One of our members used to do this on Amtrak trips from FTW or to DFW to catch planes!

 

[neroden]

To answer the raging question of the day:

I meant checked luggage on the airline.

If you're going to DFW with luggage to check on the airline, neither the TRE/Centreport bus nor DART nor TexRail is going to be attractive.

 

[tonys96]

To answer the raging question of the day:

I meant checked luggage on the airline.

If you're going to DFW with luggage to check on the airline, neither the TRE/Centreport bus nor DART nor TexRail is going to be attractive.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!

And if you have checked baggage on Amtrak, you would not be able to get it off the train at Centerport unless they built and manned a station there.

 

[neroden]

It takes the TRE 53 minutes to go from FTW to DAL.

FWIW, this is substantially less than the timetabled time which Amtrak currently takes over the Union Pacific.
It's interesting to realize that the ex-Rock Island routes are usually better passenger routes than the alternatives. A bit like the NY Central & Pennsy in the East. Perhaps it was the first mover advantage. Unfortunately, the Rock was allowed to be almost completely dismantled, unlike Penn Central, so there's a lot of work to be done to restore passenger service on the correct routes.

 

[tonys96]

It takes the TRE 53 minutes to go from FTW to DAL.

FWIW, this is substantially less than the timetabled time which Amtrak currently takes over the Union Pacific.
It's interesting to realize that the ex-Rock Island routes are usually better passenger routes than the alternatives. A bit like the NY Central & Pennsy in the East. Perhaps it was the first mover advantage. Unfortunately, the Rock was allowed to be almost completely dismantled, unlike Penn Central, so there's a lot of work to be done to restore passenger service on the correct routes.

And it is interesting that southbound Eagle has 1 hour 35 minutes scheduled time to make this trip, while northbound has only 1 hour. Must be those headwinds from the west slowing it down......

 

[battalion51]

There's definitely some pad in the schedule for the southbound. I wonder though if it has something to do with the timing of trains in the morning versus the afternoon and having to get across Tower 55. I expect though that even if the Eagle is right on the heels it will still be faster over TRE than over UP. Based on the schedule of TRE it shouldn't really be an issue, especially since nearly everything east of Centreport is double tracked.

 

[tonys96]

There's definitely some pad in the schedule for the southbound. I wonder though if it has something to do with the timing of trains in the morning versus the afternoon and having to get across Tower 55. I expect though that even if the Eagle is right on the heels it will still be faster over TRE than over UP. Based on the schedule of TRE it shouldn't really be an issue, especially since nearly everything east of Centreport is double tracked.

Correct. If TE is on schedule, no conflict with TRE schedule! And we know the Eagle is always on schedule. ; )

Whatever, I agree it will generally be quicker over the TRE line.

 

[TheTuck]

The current running time between FTW and DAL over the UP is about 50 mins. This includes a 10 minute wye move at Tower 55 in each direction. There's about 45 mins of padding on #21 and about 10 mins on #22.

As for TRE, I'm not familiar with the track layout or speeds but looking at the public timetables, the fastest runs between the two stations is 50 minutes. Of course this is with all 7 intermediate stations. In perfect conditions the Eagle could probably make the trip in 35-40 minutes. Looking even further, I see that the current departure times would leave a nice window for the Eagle with only one opposing TRE train to meet. This of course could change if Amtrak decides to tighten the schedule on other portions of the route. My opinion is the southern section between FTW and SAS should stay as is due to the Sunset Limited and Heartland Flyer connections. This would allow for a slightly earlier eastbound run from DAL to CHI and a slightly later run westbound.

Don't be surprised if Amtrak doesn't adjust anything other than station dwell times in FTW and DAL initially. The negotiation process with the host railroads is a long and tedious one.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I made the run between DAL and FTW on the Eagle a couple times last Summer when the Tower 55 detour was in place and it took about 30 minutes with no in between stops or major slowdowns. And of course the southbound Eagle pulls into FTW nose first ready to continue south without any wyeing; of course during the detour this was end of line and the engines were simply turned, putting the Trans on the tail for the trip north.

 

[neroden]

Let's assume, for now, that Amtrak leaves Texas Eagle timings pretty much constant from Chicago to St. Louis, due to the ongoing (endless) construction work, and the involvement of CN and TRRA as well as UP, as well as Chicago Union Station operations and the BNSF wye.

Amtrak is already planning to add another station between Dallas and St. Louis. It would seem appropriate to negotiate a new schedule with UP from St. Louis to Dallas, tighten up the padding at Dallas, and move most of the remaining schedule padding to Ft. Worth. Then go back to BNSF and UP to renegotiate the Ft. Worth - San Antonio portion of the trip.

I think nearly all the time should be taken off the San Antonio end due to the extreme complications involved in rescheduling things up in Illinois.

 

[printman2000]

Anyone heard anything lately about this reroute? Been reading other places of a report that the plan has been scrapped due to a third party objecting.

 

[The Chief]

Here's an article

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/traffic/your-commute/article4480770.html

that notes

"Amtrak will begin using the Trinity Railway Express line between downtown Fort Worth and Dallas in February (2015)."

I read the funny quote by Peter LeCody, Texas Rail Advocates prez:
“They had a lot of padding in the schedule, so hopefully they can take that out,” he said.

Yeah, they'll get right on that, Pete.

 

[VentureForth]

Me thinks that article is what started the conversation. I think post #87 was looking for updates.

 

[printman2000]

Me thinks that article is what started the conversation. I think post #87 was looking for updates.

That would be correct. Looking for updates on the reroute not the scheduling.

 

[neroden]

There are unverified rumors that BNSF is making trouble. (Geez...) Don't any of the class Is know how to play nice with others?

 

[tonys96]

The Regional Transportation Council (RTC), which is a group of cities, counties and other interested parties, along with the North Central Texas Council of Governments (NCTCOG) have been discussion this move, as have the Cities who pay taxes to the T. There has been some political blowback. As you can guess, with many different entities, with many differing agendas, this has been a tricky tap dance to get done.

As we speak, UP is doing several grade crossing improvements, and tie replacements, on one of the lines in Grand Prairie and Arlington. Often that closes one of the lines, making only one usable. They recently replaced the other line with new welded rail and concrete ties. Just repairing the other. The Garrett Rail Yard on Arlington's east border is really busy these days, often putting together over mile long trains, with far less available track. They often have to use the through track simply to put together the trainsets. With this going on, it would have been a great time to move Amtrak to the TRE line.

 

[VentureForth]

There are unverified rumors that BNSF is making trouble. (Geez...) Don't any of the class Is know how to play nice with others?

I know that BNSF's dispatchers are in Fort Worth, and they have a decent presence in that area. But what part of the TRE do they have anything to do with?

Well, I just pulled up BNSF's system map and they amazingly call the TRE route "theirs" as opposed to hauling agreement or trackage rights. I suppose they control Tower 55, too, which should make them more amenable to the move.

 

[neroden]

So the situation as it stands is this:

-- Amtrak, TRE, The T, and DART have signed an agreement to relocate Amtrak to the TRE route, at The T's expense

-- Relocating Amtrak to the TRE route is a prerequisite for spending money allocated back in 2008 by the federal government to double track a section of the TRE route -- otherwise it MUST be returned to the Feds. This money has a 2017 deadline for being spent, so it's fast approaching.

-- UP has made relocation of Amtrak to the TRE route a precondition for agreeing to sell/grant rights on the property needed for TEXRail, which is the top priority project of The T.

-- TEXRail has received environmental clearance (ROD) from the federal FTA, and has been told that it will receive a full funding grant agreement from the FTA. This will all evaporate if UP agreement is not reached, which will happen if Amtrak does not move to the TRE.

So there is a LOT RIDING ON THIS. Anyone obstructing this is interfering with hundreds of millions of federal funding and the top-priority project in Fort Worth.

Apparently the combined projects are requiring a redesign of the tracks & platforms immediately around Fort Worth ITC, so that may be the actual cause of delays.

 

[VentureForth]

Apparently the combined projects are requiring a redesign of the tracks & platforms immediately around Fort Worth ITC, so that may be the actual cause of delays.

The track situation at the Fort Worth ITC is not trivial. There are three boarding tracks at FTW. All three of the current tracks can be switched to the TRE line. This is how it's been for over a decade, now. The major problem is not going to be changed by this switch-a-roo. That problem is the fact that you can have three Amtrak trains and as many as two TRE trains in the station at the same time. (NB TE, SB TE, HF, EB TRE, WB TRE, if everyone's schedule is wonked out). OH yeah, and don't forget BNSF who still maintains trackage rights.

 

[daveyb99]

Apparently the combined projects are requiring a redesign of the tracks & platforms immediately around Fort Worth ITC, so that may be the actual cause of delays.

The track situation at the Fort Worth ITC is not trivial. There are three boarding tracks at FTW. All three of the current tracks can be switched to the TRE line. This is how it's been for over a decade, now. The major problem is not going to be changed by this switch-a-roo. That problem is the fact that you can have three Amtrak trains and as many as two TRE trains in the station at the same time. (NB TE, SB TE, HF, EB TRE, WB TRE, if everyone's schedule is wonked out). OH yeah, and don't forget BNSF who still maintains trackage rights.

Don't know who would pay, but More Platforms ... the only answer.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Apparently the combined projects are requiring a redesign of the tracks & platforms immediately around Fort Worth ITC, so that may be the actual cause of delays.

The track situation at the Fort Worth ITC is not trivial. There are three boarding tracks at FTW. All three of the current tracks can be switched to the TRE line. This is how it's been for over a decade, now. The major problem is not going to be changed by this switch-a-roo. That problem is the fact that you can have three Amtrak trains and as many as two TRE trains in the station at the same time. (NB TE, SB TE, HF, EB TRE, WB TRE, if everyone's schedule is wonked out). OH yeah, and don't forget BNSF who still maintains trackage rights.

Don't know who would pay, but More Platforms ... the only answer.

How about more efficient use and better schedule keeping? Right now trains sit at FTW for hours at a time taking up space. Compared to the really busy stations in the world FTW has more than enough platforms to work with. They're just needlessly inefficient with how they use what they already have.

 

[neroden]

TRE and future TexRail trains will move very quickly out of the ITC, on their way to the T&P station and the tail tracks beyond it.

BNSF is not going to want trackage rights through the station onto the... dead-end tracks to the T&P station. Apparently BNSF is planning to shrink its large neighboring yard, which should keep BNSF away from the station tracks. This should not be a problem

Only the Amtrak trains are likely to be sitting in the station for significant periods. The trick is getting passengers to the Amtrak platform across the TRE/TexRail platforms...

 

[saxman]

Currently on 21 right now from DAL, and on the UP line, still. Lots of construction going on, that I see.

 

[Rover]