Transportation bill proposal: $50 billion for high-speed rail

[jcl653]

An article posted on Grist.com explores the national transportation bill that Congress will likely pass this year. According to the article, it is a bill that "comes up only about once every six years." I believe its technical name is "Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users."

This passage caught my eye:

The last transportation bill was funded to the tune of $286 billion over six years; the current proposal by Minnesota Democrat James Oberstar, the chairman of the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, would increase that amount to $500 billion over six years, including $50 billion for high-speed rail. Rep. Oberstar testified in July that the bill will “create or sustain approximately six million family-wage jobs.

I recall reading several weeks ago that $50B was roughly the total amount of money needed to fund all of the high-speed-rail applications submitted by states. While I'm sure the $50B figure quoted in the article is far from final, it got me thinking: would $60B over 10 years be enough to revolutionize our nation's rail transportation system?

UPDATE: This December 2009 New York Times article provides additional background and details on the transportation bill.

 

[Rumpled]

The California Hish Speed Rail project is like $50 Billion all by itself.

The $50 B might cover something like a 10% or 20% match for everything submitted at best I'd guess.

 

[goodnightjohnwayne]

It would only take a fraction of this amount to re capitalize Amtrak's rolling stock and motive power for the next couple of decades. Instead, with budget battles ahead, this looks like a disaster for passenger rail advocacy. This sort of colossal, and inevitably corrupt, appropriation is going to lead to years of political scandals, half finished projects and taxpayer anger as subsidies mount.

 

[WICT106]

It would only take a fraction of this amount to re capitalize Amtrak's rolling stock and motive power for the next couple of decades. Instead, with budget battles ahead, this looks like a disaster for passenger rail advocacy. This sort of colossal, and inevitably corrupt, appropriation is going to lead to years of political scandals, half finished projects and taxpayer anger as subsidies mount.

This is something that I'm concerned about. With all of the anti-spending fervor going about our nation, I hope that *investment in passenger rail transportation* does not get thrown out with all of the other wasteful spending. It is up to us, the members here and at other pro-rail web fora, to counter all of the Wendell Cox, anti-rail statements and rhetoric. If we do not get out and get active and get involved, this opportunity for investment (again, note the use of this term) in passenger trains will slip through our fingers. Contact your Elected Representatives, fellow AU'ers.

 

[jcl653]

This sort of colossal, and inevitably corrupt, appropriation is going to lead to years of political scandals, half finished projects and taxpayer anger as subsidies mount.

This statement seems unqualified and hyperbolic.

Passenger transportation systems are never profitable. All must be subsidized by government. But the strong return on the subsidy make the up-front investment worth it.

Over a dozen countries around the globe (England, France, Spain, China, Japan, Brazil and India to name a few) have built or are planning to build high-speed rail systems. All are being built with at least some public money. To argue that America should throw up her hands in defeat seems anti-American to me.

 

[dlagrua]

It sounds like this appropriation bill will be used to fund state metro transportation projects only not long distance passenger travel. If we wish to expand and modernize long distance train travel projects the investment should not be that great. The recapitalization of Amtrak rolling stock and the restoration/revitalization of several more passenger lines should be a good first stop . Where ridership of a particular line is light, Amtrak could simple go to alternate day train scheduling to save money.

 

[AlanB]

Where ridership of a particular line is light, Amtrak could simple go to alternate day train scheduling to save money.

That only serves to further reduce ridership, going to alternate days. People need to know that the train is there every day, not every other day. It's too hard to work schedules around alternate day services.

If ridership is light, then reduce consist size, consider DMU's, and/or run promo's to get ridership back up.

 

[MikefromCrete]

It sounds like this appropriation bill will be used to fund state metro transportation projects only not long distance passenger travel. If we wish to expand and modernize long distance train travel projects the investment should not be that great. The recapitalization of Amtrak rolling stock and the restoration/revitalization of several more passenger lines should be a good first stop . Where ridership of a particular line is light, Amtrak could simple go to alternate day train scheduling to save money.

Less than daily service just doesn't cut it. The three-times-a-week service on the Sunset Limited was initiated by the Southeran Pacific back in the 60's as a way to discourage ridership and eventually eliminate the train. Somehow, the Sunset has survived as a three-day-a-week run under Amtrak for 38 years. It _ and the Cardinal _ would be better off as daily routes.

The future of rail servivce is in 500-600 mile corridor services and that is what Amtrak and the states are concentrating on. I doubt if we will ever seen another long distance route launched.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

On several conventions that I have attended I wanted to go part way by train but couldn't due 3 day a week schedules somewhere on the route. So I flew :huh:

 

[dlagrua]

It sounds like this appropriation bill will be used to fund state metro transportation projects only not long distance passenger travel. If we wish to expand and modernize long distance train travel projects the investment should not be that great. The recapitalization of Amtrak rolling stock and the restoration/revitalization of several more passenger lines should be a good first stop . Where ridership of a particular line is light, Amtrak could simple go to alternate day train scheduling to save money.

Less than daily service just doesn't cut it. The three-times-a-week service on the Sunset Limited was initiated by the Southeran Pacific back in the 60's as a way to discourage ridership and eventually eliminate the train. Somehow, the Sunset has survived as a three-day-a-week run under Amtrak for 38 years. It _ and the Cardinal _ would be better off as daily routes.

The future of rail servivce is in 500-600 mile corridor services and that is what Amtrak and the states are concentrating on. I doubt if we will ever seen another long distance route launched.

Perhaps the 3 day per week schedule is not the answer but you cn only reduce consist size so much and still stay profitable. I would say the future of passenger rail service in the USA should be more like 900-1000 miles or 1 overnight.. routes that connect New York, Phila, Pittsburgh, Atlanta Chicago, New Orleans, Orlando etc. I believe most people would consider getting on the train at dinner time and arriving the next morning at their destination. After all you don't do much in the evening anyway so why not relax and sleep on the train?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I doubt if we will ever seen another long distance route launched.

We already know for almost certain that the Broadway Limited will be back with the next Viewliner order, and we expect the Silver Palm and Twilight Shoreliner to come with it. Furthermore, the NCH, DW, and Pioneer are likely candidates to come back, as well.

 

[Chris J.]

We already know for almost certain that the Broadway Limited will be back with the next Viewliner order, and we expect the Silver Palm and Twilight Shoreliner to come with it. Furthermore, the NCH, DW, and Pioneer are likely candidates to come back, as well.

Relaunched Twilight - call it the New Moon :lol:

 

[volkris]

Over a dozen countries around the globe (England, France, Spain, China, Japan, Brazil and India to name a few) have built or are planning to build high-speed rail systems. All are being built with at least some public money. To argue that America should throw up her hands in defeat seems anti-American to me.

It's not throwing up hands in defeat, it's recognizing that America is a different culture with different values and different priorities. Americans don't want to fund these projects not because they're afraid to or feel defeated; they simply want to spend their money in different ways. There's nothing wrong with that.

If anything it's anti-American to suggest that America should put aside its values and identity to be just like England, France, Spain, China...

Perhaps the 3 day per week schedule is not the answer but you cn only reduce consist size so much and still stay profitable. I would say the future of passenger rail service in the USA should be more like 900-1000 miles or 1 overnight.. routes that connect New York, Phila, Pittsburgh, Atlanta Chicago, New Orleans, Orlando etc. I believe most people would consider getting on the train at dinner time and arriving the next morning at their destination. After all you don't do much in the evening anyway so why not relax and sleep on the train?

Maybe YOU don't do much in the evening

I'd say the future of standard rail service is the opposite direction, 100-400 miles. After that the speed of air travel starts to put rail to shame. Should I spend overnight on a train or sit on a plane for an hour and sleep at my destination in a real bed? Sit on a train or join in my family's activities for the evening?

Maybe HSR will be able to close the gap, and then sure, trains will become more competitive for longer distances, but that's far from a done deal.

 

[NativeSon5859]

I doubt if we will ever seen another long distance route launched.

We already know for almost certain that the Broadway Limited will be back with the next Viewliner order, and we expect the Silver Palm and Twilight Shoreliner to come with it. Furthermore, the NCH, DW, and Pioneer are likely candidates to come back, as well.

And of course the "City of Miami".

 

[AlanB]

Over a dozen countries around the globe (England, France, Spain, China, Japan, Brazil and India to name a few) have built or are planning to build high-speed rail systems. All are being built with at least some public money. To argue that America should throw up her hands in defeat seems anti-American to me.

It's not throwing up hands in defeat, it's recognizing that America is a different culture with different values and different priorities. Americans don't want to fund these projects not because they're afraid to or feel defeated; they simply want to spend their money in different ways. There's nothing wrong with that.

Actually I have to disagree with this in a slightly off kilter way. Many Americans don't want to spend their money period on infrastructure projects in general. The problem is that they aren't paying attention to things and are just looking short term and watching the media headlines. Many American's see the big price tags of new rail projects for example and panic that their taxes are going up. Yet they blissfully believe that the gas taxes fully fund the highways with no general revenues mixed in.

If they started getting the real facts, they might change their minds.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I doubt if we will ever seen another long distance route launched.

We already know for almost certain that the Broadway Limited will be back with the next Viewliner order, and we expect the Silver Palm and Twilight Shoreliner to come with it. Furthermore, the NCH, DW, and Pioneer are likely candidates to come back, as well.

And of course the "City of Miami".

I am choosing not to see that as new service. It is Amtrak restoring "temporarily suspended" service, which they should have done. Or at least said its gone.