Transportation service and product differentiation

[jis]

The length of Acela trainsets are not determined by any platform length considerations All stations where Acelas stop can easily accommodate 12 85' cars and most can handle 14. At present, if one is to believe the RFQ that was used to place the order for Acela 21s the reason for the length of these sets is that they have to fit in the avaiable yard and maintenance building space that is available at Ivy City, Sunnyside and Southampton Street facilities dedicated to Acelas.

The fares commanded by Acelas is managed by (a) limiting supply (i.e. using short enough trains to keep supply lower than demand and (b) artificially running the Regionals significantly slower than what they are capable of. Given the limitations of top speed that is inherent in the nature of the right of way, such marketing and price management tricks help increase overall revenues.

 

[railiner]

b) artificially running the Regionals significantly slower than what they are capable of.

I was not aware of that…
Seems like a devious practice…

 

[PVD]

Airlines don't fly at their max cruising speeds, they fly at reasonable speeds that also maximize fuel economy.

 

[railiner]

Airlines don't fly at their max cruising speeds, they fly at reasonable speeds that also maximize fuel economy.

Not the same comparison. When the Concorde was flying, BA and AF didn’t slow down their conventional flights to make the added cost of the SST appear a greater value…

 

[PVD]

No, but airlines slow down flights to make more money. It isn't that different.

 

[jis]

No, but airlines slow down flights to make more money. It isn't that different.

In countries with extensive passenger railroad systems it is not that unusual to find that two trains with essentially the same equipment is run on two different schedules, one faster and one slower where premium fare is charged for the faster schedule, and the slower schedule is significantly slower because it is allowed 5 minute stops at many places, where the faster schedule either does not stop or stops for only a minute or two. This is exactly what Amtrak is doing on the NEC. Now one could opine that in some determination of fairness and trickiness this is bad, but factually this is not all that uncommon all around the world.

 

[PVD]

Of course. It is likely more the norm than not. Even on the same train or plane you can receive more or less amenities or levels of comfort based on what you are willing (or able) to pay. Fairness is imaginary (or subjective) equality is entirely different.

 

[jis]

I thought that, at least pre-pandemic, the proposal was to use the extra new sets to run half-hourly New York - Washington and hourly New York - Boston. That would be a substantial supply increase over the current schedule, which doesn't seem to me like they are trying to keep supply very low to charge higher fares.

The plan is premised on increasing Acela service while reducing inventory on Regionals, thus hopefully bumping more travelers upto Acela class service and hence higher revenues. It constitutes a different route to increasing demand to match or exceed supply. And mind you, I don't begrudge that at all. As I have mentioned it is all very standard practice where one can make it work.

As for the speed of the Regionals, given that many still arrive late, I think that the schedule is reasonable based on the amount of interfering traffic. Certainly you could go faster with the same equipment and a clear route, but that just isn't realistic.

That is exactly the point. One thing that one buys with the Acela higher fare is priority. In the relatively disorderly world of congested NEC. It is often the case that an Acela and a Regional vie for the same block even though timetable-wise that is not supposed to happen. In such cases the Acela gets priority, and that increases the net running time of the Regional, not the lack of its speed capabilities. When you are moving at 0mph speed capabilities are a bit irrelevant. Additionally the timetabled dwell times at stations is more than double that for Acelas.

The question to ask is how would a Regional train set do in an Acela slot with Acela priority. The running time difference is nowhere near as huge as it is in the timetables between an Acela and a Regional.

Between New York and Boston, Acelas still do not beat the best historical timetable time achieved before electrification. That is because of congestion and conflicts, of which there is more today because of the loss of significant parts of the infrastructure over the years.

 

[fdaley]

In countries with extensive passenger railroad systems it is not that unusual to find that two trains with essentially the same equipment is run on two different schedules, one faster and one slower where premium fare is charged for the faster schedule, and the slower schedule is significantly slower because it is allowed 5 minute stops at many places, where the faster schedule either does not stop or stops for only a minute or two.

This really was true in the latter days of the Metroliner, when those trains were running the same Amfleet cars as the regular trains, so the faster schedule was really the only thing to differentiate them. And it's one reason I almost never used the Metroliner in that era; it didn't seem worth a sharply higher fare to save maybe 30 or 40 minutes at most.

At least with the current Acela, the train sets are different -- with flat sides, bigger windows, table seating in some cases -- so you feel that you're getting an overall superior experience, in addition to speed, for the extra fare. On the Boston end, the time savings seems more striking too. And of course, Acela First is a league apart from the premium "business class" on the regionals.

 

[jis]

At least with the current Acela, the train sets are different -- with flat sides, bigger windows, table seating in some cases -- so you feel that you're getting an overall superior experience, in addition to speed, for the extra fare. At least on the Boston end, the time savings seems more striking too. And of course, Acela First is a league apart from the premium "business class" on the regionals.

Exactly. The main reason I use Acelas, when the fare differential was not totally outrageous at least, from the get go was for the better ambiance if you will. Though for some unknown reason on an average the Acelas seem to have suffered from worse ride quality. But when you seated and have not experienced a TGV or Shinkansen at 180-200mph, it is tolerable.

Acela First is really a Premium service, where Acela Business is just a mischaracterized Coach service in an attempt to demand higher fares IMHO, but as I said before, it really is par for the course.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

Acela First is really a Premium service, where Acela Business is just a mischaracterized Coach service in an attempt to demand higher fares IMHO, but as I said before, it really is par for the course.

Agreed, Acela Business Class is really a misnomer as none of the perks normally associated with BC are present such as free non alcoholic drink and 2+1 seating. You do get seat reservations though which is important.

 

[PVD]

Prior to the refresh of the AM-1 there were times when the Acela cars were generally in better interior shape especially the seats, even that has changed. The AM-1 coaches are not bad.

 

[Anderson]

Of course. It is likely more the norm than not. Even on the same train or plane you can receive more or less amenities or levels of comfort based on what you are willing (or able) to pay. Fairness is imaginary (or subjective) equality is entirely different.

Fair is a place with cotton candy and a ferris wheel.

Of course, if the railroad can "pad out" the schedule mainly by adding stops, that can also help the bottom line.

Having said that, as long as you can produce the upgrade cards (I'm looking forward to having Select Executive back in a few months), notwithstanding some menu gripes Acela First is definitely worth the added benefits vs Regional coach/BC IMO.

 

[MARC Rider]

Acela First is definitely worth the added benefits vs Regional coach/BC IMO.

That might be true for a WAS-BOS trip, and, to a lesser extent a WAS-NYP trip, but it's sort of silly to ride Acela First between, say, WAS and BAL. (Though I've done it.) or between NYP and PHL. Unless one is just trying to earn TQP to get to Select Plus for Lounge access.

Last summer, I paid $87 for a BOS-BAL Acela ticket, then used a coupon to upgrade to First. The first class ticket, had I paid for it, was a bit over $300. Not sure I would have paid that much money.

 

[Anderson]

That might be true for a WAS-BOS trip, and, to a lesser extent a WAS-NYP trip, but it's sort of silly to ride Acela First between, say, WAS and BAL. (Though I've done it.) or between NYP and PHL. Unless one is just trying to earn TQP to get to Select Plus for Lounge access.

Last summer, I paid $87 for a BOS-BAL Acela ticket, then used a coupon to upgrade to First. The first class ticket, had I paid for it, was a bit over $300. Not sure I would have paid that much money.

This is almost exactly what I was talking about.
[I've done WAS-BAL as well. Jamming in dinner on a later train out of DC and pocketing the TQPs on a holiday-adjacent day to requal for Select Executive IIRC.]