TSA's here...

[gatelouse]

Well, WAS appears to be swabbing the exteriors of bags and doing ETD (explosives trace detection). Differences from the airport experience:

- Amtrak Police choose who to screen, generally those with larger carry-on luggage it seems

- Presuming no line at the screening counter, about 45 seconds total.

- No primary, physical bag searches like on NY or Boston transit

- No offensive pat downs, body searches, etc.

- No gaudy blue uniforms. You could barely tell they were TSA.

- Amtrak K9s watching the boarding line, presumably sniffing the passengers as they walk by.

So, presuming that they can keep this process moving, I may be willing to tolerate this. I'm no fan of TSA, but as

long as Amtrak Police remain "in charge" of any security operation, this looks more like actual security vs. security theater.

Your thoughts? My question is whether this was a VIPR team or an actual pilot or permanent fixture at WAS.

 

[jis]

Possibly this is just temporary heightened security following the killing of a few Al-Queda leaders in Yemen last week.

 

[hippyman]

Is this happening anywhere else, except DC? The second amtrak goes TSA, I'm finished....I'm taking the highways, from now on. Anyone else agree?

 

[JayPea]

Is this happening anywhere else, except DC? The second amtrak goes TSA, I'm finished....I'm taking the highways, from now on. Anyone else agree?

I certainly understand this point of view, as I'm not exactly a huge fan of TSA, but I like Amtrak travel so much it would take a lot for me to stop traveling Amtrak. Barring a complete shutdown of Amtrak or physical incapacitation, I can't forsee any reason I'd quit traveling Amtrak.

 

[hippyman]

Is this happening anywhere else, except DC? The second amtrak goes TSA, I'm finished....I'm taking the highways, from now on. Anyone else agree?

I certainly understand this point of view, as I'm not exactly a huge fan of TSA, but I like Amtrak travel so much it would take a lot for me to stop traveling Amtrak. Barring a complete shutdown of Amtrak or physical incapacitation, I can't forsee any reason I'd quit traveling Amtrak.

I doubt I would stop riding completely, trust me, and I can understand heightened security at the nations capital...I'm just curious, is that the only place where security has been kicked up?

 

[transit54]

Is this happening anywhere else, except DC? The second amtrak goes TSA, I'm finished....I'm taking the highways, from now on. Anyone else agree?

While I'd hate to see Amtrak go the route of airports (and think it's very unlikely), I also find long distance driving to be the most absolutely unpleasant and unproductive form of travel there is. So you'd still be seeing me on Amtrak. But I might choose to fly more often and Megabus might be seeing more of my business. It's less that I find the security procedures invasive and more that I like the ability to show up 10 minutes before my train departs.

 

[fillyjonk]

It would depend greatly on how intrusive it became. If they wanted to swab the surface or even inside of my bag to check for explosives, fine, no problem with that. If they have sniffer dogs, fine, no problem with that. But if they started doing patdowns with the "over the breasts, between the legs" check similar to those in the airports....I'd stop traveling unless absolutely 100% necessary. And even then I'd do what I could to drive rather than take mass transportation.

I suspect, though, that if that happened, a great number of the smaller stations (and all the unmanned stations) would be shut down, which would make Amtrak travel sufficiently inefficient and annoying for me that I'd stop traveling ANYWAY. If I had to drive to downtown Dallas to get on the train, for example, and could only get off in Little Rock, St. Louis, or Chicago, and then had to take a bus or whatever to my actual destination - forget it.

 

[jis]

Is this happening anywhere else, except DC? The second amtrak goes TSA, I'm finished....I'm taking the highways, from now on. Anyone else agree?

It happens occasionally at New York Penn Station and in Philadelphia 30th St station. But I have never seen these continue on a regular basis.

 

[hippyman]

if amtrak goes that route, starts shutting down stations, and whatnot, then I may have to just invest in me an RV...one of those would make driving well worth it; alot better than flying, thats for sure

 

[hippyman]

Is this happening anywhere else, except DC? The second amtrak goes TSA, I'm finished....I'm taking the highways, from now on. Anyone else agree?

It happens occasionally at New York Penn Station and in Philadelphia 30th St station. But I have never seen these continue on a regular basis.

thats a relief, as long as it doesnt happen on a continued basis, I'm fine

 

[Grandpa D]

Is this happening anywhere else, except DC?

Wednesday (09/28) I saw them setting up at CUS. They didn't bother those of us boarding the Hiawatha (337) but I think the EB was going to use that gate later in the afternoon.

 

[gatelouse]

Didn't see anything else out of the ordinary at NYP today, but Amtrak Police did ride through the tunnel EWR-NYP. Sounds like we got VIPR'd at WAS.

In media interviews, Amtrak's police chief showed a solid appreciation for the convenience of train travel and the fact that an airport style model won't work. This appears to be the case from what I observed--the procedure was clearly optimized for rail at a major station.

Given that this wasn't too obtrusive and directed by Amtrak police, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. Still, one would think the dogs are enough. Not to mention the 2 TSA Inspectors watching the 2 TSA swabbers...

 

[MattW]

I think Amtrak would kick tsa to the curb if they could. This is likely a compromise that keeps the tsa at bay by letting them do something, but doesn't bring the garbage to Amtrak that takes place at the airports.

 

[the_traveler]

Even if Amtrak does go the way of airport "Security", I'd still ride Amtrak! And driving instead?

The most dangerous portion of my trips is the 4 miles I have to drive to the station!

Yes it may be (somewhat) possible to set up "airport style Security" at some major stations, but certainly not at most smaller stations and unstaffed stations!

A few years ago, I dropped of my sister near the platform at KIN while I went to park the car. Before I found a parking spot, the train arrived!

I still made the train. If I had to go thru any "Security", I hardly think I would have made it!

 

[dlagrua]

The use of bomb sniffing dogs at the major Amtrak stations has proven time and time again that this is all that is needed. You CANNOT get any explosives past the nose of these trained dogs. I won't fly because of the degrading security procedures but don't mind the department of homeland security with their dogs. With 1000's of stations nationwide, many of which are not mannned and with 1000's of miles of track, in reality there is only so much you can do with train travel but the passengers can help by keeping their eyes open.

 

[jis]

I think the TSA Trusted Traveler program which is being tested at four airport now, will improve the lives of those that are frequent and trusted travelers, just like the CBP Trusted Traveler program has done so at CBP checkpoints at airports. Coincidentally, the CBP Trusted Travelers will automatically be included in the TSA Trusted Traveler program provided they are US citizens.

Heck they have more information on a person in the CBP Trusted Traveler program than the person him/herself has about him/herself it would seem! In my interview for the CBP Trusted Traveler program they went back all the way to my Naturalization and my stay in the US as a F-1 and H-1, and threw in a few lies here and there to check how I handle those too. It was actually quite interesting analyzing the techniques used, which is what I was doing while they were analyzing me.

Incidentally, for the TSA Trusted Traveler program the bar will be much lower than the CBP's. Apparently all one has to do is be Platinum or higher level Elite in the airline program to qualify (+ a few other caveats I am sure), but nothing like the CBP grilling.

As you can see, I seldom take any of this as a personal affront or anything like that. They are all just an analytical challenge for me, and that keeps me quite amused.

 

[afigg]

Even if Amtrak does go the way of airport "Security", I'd still ride Amtrak! And driving instead?

The most dangerous portion of my trips is the 4 miles I have to drive to the station!

We will not see current airport type security imposed on Amtrak. For starters, the threat level is different. Someone can not hijack a train and fly it into a building. Someone could take down an airplane, which is a pressurized aluminum tube at 30 thousand feet, with a comparatively modest amount of explosive in their underwear or hidden on their body. Set off a similar explosive in a stainless steel non-pressurized train car at ground level and take out a couple of row of seats. Most people on the train are not harmed.

Furthermore, if oppressive security is imposed on Amtrak and its' 500+ stations, what about the commuter trains? Complete scanner setups for LIRR, MNRR, NJT, Metra, SEPTA? How about the NYC subway and DC Metro systems? They carry more people than Amtrak on a daily basis and can have packed standing room only cars. Even the industrial security complex with companies and consultants looking to come up with any excuse to sell more expensive scanners and security systems, get support contracts realize that imposing airport level security on passenger trains is not even remotely possible or reasonable.

No, the system that Amtrak has devised of bomb sniffing dogs and infrequent spot checks appears to be an effective and affordable approach. We just have to put up with the occasional security theater show from TSA with a roving team to show that they are doing something with the considerable amount of funding going to DHS.

 

[TimePeace]

Is this happening anywhere else, except DC? The second amtrak goes TSA, I'm finished....I'm taking the highways, from now on. Anyone else agree?

Not I.

 

[amamba]

I believe it is the amtrak police and not the TSA, but someone has been doing explosive detection tests on pax & bags for about 3-4 weeks in PVD. My H rides the 66 every morning and they have pretty much been there every day. It is a HUGE PITA - they grab everyone going down the platform and all of the regular commuters have been rolling their eyes about it.

My H had to wait 5-10 minutes one morning before going down to the platform becuase it was taking so long and was pretty worried that he was going ot miss his train. He said something to one of the guys conducting the test and he was assured that he would not miss the train - but my H didn't see how the conductors on the train could be communciating with the amtrak police/TSA people, because they are conducting their searches in the station and one has to go down a set of stairs to get to the platforms.

The police have been stopping everyone - not just random pax - and doing the explosive dection test where they swab the bags.

I hope this is NOT the new norm.

 

[amamba]

Oh one other htought on the matter - they don't appear to be checking people boarding MBTA trains at the exact same time - a train which is headed to the same location (BOS). Further demonstrating to me that this whole dog & pony show is "security theater."

 

[jis]

Oh one other htought on the matter - they don't appear to be checking people boarding MBTA trains at the exact same time - a train which is headed to the same location (BOS). Further demonstrating to me that this whole dog & pony show is "security theater."

Didn't you know that the bad guys have been given strict instructions to use only Amtrak trains?

 

[Ispolkom]

Incidentally, for the TSA Trusted Traveler program the bar will be much lower than the CBP's. Apparently all one has to do is be Platinum or higher level Elite in the airline program to qualify (+ a few other caveats I am sure), but nothing like the CBP grilling.

I like this. Right now, airlines treat their coach passengers so badly in part to encourage frequent travelers to get status so they are treated better. Now, the intrusive TSA searches will be an additional selling point for frequent-flyer status. Talk about making lemonade when you're given lemons!

 

[amamba]

I think the TSA Trusted Traveler program which is being tested at four airport now, will improve the lives of those that are frequent and trusted travelers, just like the CBP Trusted Traveler program has done so at CBP checkpoints at airports. Coincidentally, the CBP Trusted Travelers will automatically be included in the TSA Trusted Traveler program provided they are US citizens.

Incidentally, for the TSA Trusted Traveler program the bar will be much lower than the CBP's. Apparently all one has to do is be Platinum or higher level Elite in the airline program to qualify (+ a few other caveats I am sure), but nothing like the CBP grilling.

jis, can you tell me what the CBP trusted traveler program is?

Is this TSA trusted traveler program separate from the "Fly Clear" program that went bankrupt a few years ago?

I was actual a member of clear and I thought it was well worth the money because it meant I could bypass the line and just had to put my fingers on the little screen at the line. I did still have to go through the metal detectors but that wasn't a big deal at all.

While I enjoyed being a member of Clear, it obviously had limitations because a) it wasn't in enough locations and b) I do think its somewhat elitist. I actually have a somewhat ethical issue with the TSA (a government agency) operating checkpoints and then allowing first class pax or those with airline status into a faster/shorter line. If the checkpoint is being funded by the government, why should some folks get into a faster/shorter line just because they paid more? IF the line is for folks that have been through a screening process already (like trusted traveler or clear) than I think it makes sense, but it sort of rubs me the wrong way to have shorter lines for the people that paid more to a private corporation when the checkpoint is operated by a government agency.

 

[jis]

jis, can you tell me what the CBP trusted traveler program is?

CBP Trusted Traveler Program has three means to be trusted - NEXUS, Globar Entry, and one more the name of which I forget. Of these Global Entry just uses you Smart Card Passport with attached biometric and relevant other info kept by CBP to let you clear immigration at port of entry using a machine and biometrics, typically 4 finger prints, without ever meeting a person.

Is this TSA trusted traveler program separate from the "Fly Clear" program that went bankrupt a few years ago?

Yes. Clear is available again at a few airports. TSA's is a separate program being developed in collaboration with airlines and CBP. The biometric information from CBP is used in it. I don;t believe the frequent flyers need to provide any biometrics though I may be wrong. And it is still not known what form the final fully deplyed program will take. At rpesent it is in limited trial at 4 airports using two airlines with a limited set of invited participants.

I was actual a member of clear and I thought it was well worth the money because it meant I could bypass the line and just had to put my fingers on the little screen at the line. I did still have to go through the metal detectors but that wasn't a big deal at all.

Theoretically, in the Trusted Traveler program being designed by the TSA those that are authenticated using biometrics will most likely be able to forego most of the security check most of the time, but there will be random cases of running one through the full process just to keep the elemnt of unpredictability in the equation.

While I enjoyed being a member of Clear, it obviously had limitations because a) it wasn't in enough locations and b) I do think its somewhat elitist. I actually have a somewhat ethical issue with the TSA (a government agency) operating checkpoints and then allowing first class pax or those with airline status into a faster/shorter line. If the checkpoint is being funded by the government, why should some folks get into a faster/shorter line just because they paid more? IF the line is for folks that have been through a screening process already (like trusted traveler or clear) than I think it makes sense, but it sort of rubs me the wrong way to have shorter lines for the people that paid more to a private corporation when the checkpoint is operated by a government agency.

The TSA program will eventually allow anyone that wants to register as a CBP trusted traveler to participate even if they have no prayer of becoming a elite frequent flyer. The cost will be something of the order of $100 per 5 years.

And again if the program workout the way it is being described in many cases a biometrically authenticated person with an acceptable clean record will be able to forego most of the check procedure.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

That idea that your hands and eyeballs are all that stands between a criminal or a nutcase and his or her next heist or attack is rather alarming to me. Not to mention the continuing erosion of our civil liberties that these ever more invasive security procedures help promote. Yes it's still by choice, for now, but if this becomes the new standard then those who choose to opt-out are likely to find traveling through their own country more and more difficult over time. And for what benefit? Until terrorism becomes more than a statistical anomaly I don't see the benefit of spending such a large amount of money fighting it. It seems to me that far more Americans are being harmed by domestic abuse, gangland drug wars, everyday car collisions, and poor health than are being harmed by actual terrorists. I'd rather spend my tax money addressing problems like those. But maybe that's just me.