US long distance vis European long distance

[UKPhil]

We live in England now, having returned from a three year expat assignment in Boston MA back in 2004 - we being my wife and I and our son (8) and daughter (11). As part of our return trip back in 2004 I arranged for us to travel by train coast to coast on the LSL and the CZ with breaks on the way in Chicago, Denver and SFO as part of an epic vacation before finally flying back to the UK from SFO. We travelled by sleeper, booking two roomette opposite each other for each leg - My wife was very concerned that I had commited us to a journey of unmitigating tedium on the train. However, after the trip the children and my wife rated the train trip as 10 out of 10 - they absolutely loved it, they enjoyed the experience of dining on the train, found the scenary fantastic and really loved the company of the other passengers. So much so that since then we have returned to the US for vacation on two separate occasions and each time were able to build a train trip into our itinerary - 2006 on the CS from LA to Seattle and in 2008 on the SWS from Chicago to LA.

Now this year we decided to use the European train service to travel from London to Locarno in Switzerland at the start of our vacation. The journey by Eurostar on the leg from from London to Paris was great (we had taven up a special offer and booked 1st class so got a fantastic meal at our seat), the leg from Paris to Zurich by TGV was fine (very, very fast), the leg from Zurich to Locarno was extremely Scenic going through the Alps. The journy home at the end of our vacation was via Milan so that we could catch the sleeper service overnight to Paris - it was a good experience but the family realised that they missed the friendly porter, the laid back conductor and the diner for breakfast that they had so enjoyed with Amtrak. The final leg back to London with eurostar was again very good.

The verdict of the family - European train travel is good - but not a patch on Amtrak

So next year it will have to be US for our vacation, now which train should we choose .........

PHIL

 

[the_traveler]

I have never taken a European train overnight, but what I have heard before, I'd have to agree that Amtrak is better! It's always good to hear it from "the horse's mouth" of someone who is really qualified to compare!

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Shanghai]

I have taken several overnight train trips in Europe. Paris to Munich, Munich to Vienna, Budapest to Paris, Amsterdam to Berlin, Berlin to Malmo, Copenhagen to Amsterdam, Amsterdam to Praha, Amsterdam to Geneva. I think the service is comparable to Amtrak but I do admit the Amtrak personnel seem to be more friendly. I think the most scenic train trip was up Jung Frau from Interlaken, Switzerland. I also liked the ICE from Amsterdam to Koln. We took the Eurostar from Paris to London several times and the Thalys from Amsterdam to Paris.

I'm happy to hear that our UK friends enjoy their Amtrak travel in the US.

 

[saxman]

Thanks for the report Phil!

I too have ridden long distance trains in Europe as well, and honestly I think Amtrak sleeper service is better. Despite the timelyness and skeletal system we have. That's not to say Europe doesn't have any good sleeper service. I just never came across it. I rode from Paris to Madrid in a sleeper train. There were six beds stacked 3 high to a room. There was a dining car but you had to pay for your meal. No one was there to take care of us or get us anything. I also rode from Rome to Lucerne in a sleeper. Same sort of deal. No service. If I remember right, there wasn't even a food service car. You just got on and went to sleep and arrived at your destination the next morning.

 

[Mark]

We live in England now, having returned from a three year expat assignment in Boston MA back in 2004 - we being my wife and I and our son (8) and daughter (11). As part of our return trip back in 2004 I arranged for us to travel by train coast to coast on the LSL and the CZ with breaks on the way in Chicago, Denver and SFO as part of an epic vacation before finally flying back to the UK from SFO. We travelled by sleeper, booking two roomette opposite each other for each leg - My wife was very concerned that I had commited us to a journey of unmitigating tedium on the train. However, after the trip the children and my wife rated the train trip as 10 out of 10 - they absolutely loved it, they enjoyed the experience of dining on the train, found the scenary fantastic and really loved the company of the other passengers. So much so that since then we have returned to the US for vacation on two separate occasions and each time were able to build a train trip into our itinerary - 2006 on the CS from LA to Seattle and in 2008 on the SWS from Chicago to LA.
Now this year we decided to use the European train service to travel from London to Locarno in Switzerland at the start of our vacation. The journey by Eurostar on the leg from from London to Paris was great (we had taven up a special offer and booked 1st class so got a fantastic meal at our seat), the leg from Paris to Zurich by TGV was fine (very, very fast), the leg from Zurich to Locarno was extremely Scenic going through the Alps. The journy home at the end of our vacation was via Milan so that we could catch the sleeper service overnight to Paris - it was a good experience but the family realised that they missed the friendly porter, the laid back conductor and the diner for breakfast that they had so enjoyed with Amtrak. The final leg back to London with eurostar was again very good.

The verdict of the family - European train travel is good - but not a patch on Amtrak

So next year it will have to be US for our vacation, now which train should we choose .........

PHIL

Always glad to hear there's a few Amtrak fans from the UK out there. The wife and I did London and Paris for our Honeymoon back in 2000. We took the Eurostar from Waterloo to Paris. I guess the trip took a little longer back then before "High Speed 1" was completed and the move to St Pancras. We really enjoyed that trip!

I'd like to vote for the Empire Builder! Chicago to Seattle, good scenery and a great train, one of Amtrak's best in my opinion. From Seattle you can hop the Cascades train to Vancouver BC for a little extra adventure if you'd like. That leg I haven't done but its on the short list!

 

[Bob Dylan]

I second the Empire Builder from either Seattle or Portland to CHI! Second choice would be the Cardinal from CHI to WAS or New York! Glad to hear yall like our trains, I havent been in Europe in years, would love to try the trips yall took but as a member says: so much time, so little money! Guess Ill ride Amtrak and VIA (theres an idea for yall too, the Canadian trains are first rate, especially the Canadian and the Ocean!) Glad to have yall, keep intouch with the forum,we can all learn from each other! You also might consider the Adirondack from New York to Montreal, great scenery!!

 

[Sam31452]

There is one big difference between Amtraks LD trains and european trains:

On the CZ 95% of the passengers are tourists, on the average european train about 20% of the passengers are tourists.

Over here we use trains as a normal way to get from point A to point B. Even on international night trains you get quite few people who travel for professional reasons. This means that there is no special excitement for an average european in the fact that he's travelling by train.

While the average american is completely excited when he can get from Williams to the Grand Canyon travelling in an average commuter train.

 

[Neil_M]

Thanks for the report Phil!
I too have ridden long distance trains in Europe as well, and honestly I think Amtrak sleeper service is better. Despite the timelyness and skeletal system we have. That's not to say Europe doesn't have any good sleeper service. I just never came across it. I rode from Paris to Madrid in a sleeper train. There were six beds stacked 3 high to a room. There was a dining car but you had to pay for your meal. No one was there to take care of us or get us anything. I also rode from Rome to Lucerne in a sleeper. Same sort of deal. No service. If I remember right, there wasn't even a food service car. You just got on and went to sleep and arrived at your destination the next morning.

Bit of a different set up though isn't it? Most European sleepers are only running for one night, indeed you can get on very late and get off very early, kind of a moving hotel.

Less need for the whole diner and loads of staff thing that you would need for a train you can be on for 3 days.

The 6 beds in compartment is a bit odd, but couchettes have been a feature of European train travel for a while now.

 

[FrankStar]

Well, I can only thus far compare one USA sleeper train experience with one (albeit unusual) European sleeper train experience.

My first USA sleeper train experience was last month, on the Capitol Limited from Washington DC to Chicago. It was more or less the standard experience described here countless times so I won’t re-cover that ground.

The European sleeper experience was something quite different. It was the Berlin-Frankfurt Duty Train, from when I was stationed in Berlin with the U.S. Air Force when the wall was still up. This was a military train run by the U.S. Army for U.S. Military members and their dependents. I traveled on it round trip three times – once for an Air Force theatre competition, and once on leave to try to catch a space-available flight from Frankfurt home to Philadelphia, and once on my way to Oktoberfest in Munich.

Before traveling on the duty train, you had to have valid leave, TDY, or travel orders, an up-to-date Military ID card (if you were active duty) or Passport (if you were a dependant), a reservation, and a set of Flag Orders to allow crossing the borders of what was then East Germany. This was VERY strict and the slightest discrepancy would be refused by the Army personnel responsible for boarding the train, or even worse, the Soviet guards wouldn’t allow crossing. You didn’t need to travel in uniform, however.

Once going through all the rigmarole associated with military and political concerns you boarded and found your compartment. There was no coach seating at all, only sleepers with four bunk beds in each room. There was no diner car. If I recall correctly, alcohol wasn’t allowed, but some people found a way to get some on board anyway. You pretty much had to bring your own food if you wanted anything substantial to eat, but there was a German porter with a small cart with sandwiches, snacks, and soft drinks in the evening. The train boarded around 8 p.m., so you had plenty of time to catch dinner and drinks somewhere before you left anyway.

Shortly after departing the Lictherfelde-West station, you arrived at the border crossing from West Berlin into East Germany. There was a long wait at this station while the Soviet border guards checked through the documents of every single person on the train. Soviet officials did not board the train, nor did the passengers leave the train- the U.S. Army train commander, his interpreter and staff carried all the documents. While stopped here, and all through East Germany, no photographs were allowed. Also, while stopped, the toilet facilities were not allowed to be used.

The process of document inspection is repeated as you leave East Germany for West Germany near Helmstedt. . Engines were also changed in Potsdam to East German equipment, then back to West German equipment at Marienborn. The Soviets didn’t want “Capitalist Engines” pulling the train over East German tracks.

The train had very low priority, and spent much of its time on sidings waiting for other trains to pass, both in East Germany and West Germany. It’s only about 300 miles between Berlin and Frankfurt, but the Duty Train trip typically took about 12 hours, so that should give you an idea. A train in Germany today covers the distance in about 5 hours.

Depending on the quality of one’s dinner and alcohol consumption, the trip could be very bearable. The beds, if I recall correctly, were much more comfortable than Amtrak roomettes, and they were actually rooms - with about 4 feet of space between the two sets of bunk beds. The toilet facilities were separate for each car, but there were no showers that I recall. I also can’t recall if you were allowed to move freely from car to car. I don’t remember doing it, at any rate.

The trip to the theatre competition was taken with other cast members that filled up two rooms, so that trip passed quickly with lots of things to do – like rehearse lines and just generally be silly. The other trips I traveled alone, so I was stuck with whoever else was traveling single, but I never had any issues.

The next morning after waking, you are greeted by the one sound that everyone who traveled on the Duty Train seems to remember, the German porter going around the cars announcing in heavily-accented English that “Coffee! Tea! Marble Cake!” were available for purchase. And that’s all that was available for breakfast. His pronunciation of “marble cake” was most memorable – something akin to “maaaahlbooollkaaayk!”

Then it was on to the Frankfurt am Main Hauptbahnhof to whatever your final destination happened to be. The Duty Train back from Frankfurt to Berlin was pretty much the same experience in reverse – with the exception of the “maaaahlbooollkaaayk!” also occurring in the morning.

 

[sunchaser]

It really depends on what part of the country you want to see.

I would like to ride The Empire Builder myself, it is well known for beautiful scenery & good service.

I would probably choose to board/depart from Seattle.

I would probably try to combine the whole route of the Coast Starlight with it.

We haven't ridden most of the trains, we are newbies & and only have one route that runs near us. We would have to take a train/fly to catch any of the other trains!

Good to hear you all enjoyed your train rides & want to go again!!

 

[Donctor]

The verdict of the family - European train travel is good - but not a patch on Amtrak PHIL

I rather enjoyed CityNightLine the few times I took their trains. Everything seemed so much cleaner and newer than Amtrak. But then I guess that takes away some of the "homey" feel that Amtrak always seems to have.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

There is one big difference between Amtraks LD trains and european trains:
On the CZ 95% of the passengers are tourists, on the average european train about 20% of the passengers are tourists.

That's quite an exaggeration.

I don't think there is a majority passenger on any LD train, a good portion are students, people who hate flying, railfans, Amish, people who are traveling to remote locales and yes tourist. But what is a tourist anyway? I met somebody on the CZ who was going to CHI for a vacation and decided to take the train. Does that make him a tourist or a traveler?

BTW- I didn't know that Amtrak ran "average commuter trains" on it's 2,000+ mile routes

 

[Tim_Metra]

There is one big difference between Amtraks LD trains and european trains:
On the CZ 95% of the passengers are tourists, on the average european train about 20% of the passengers are tourists.

That's quite an exaggeration.

I don't think there is a majority passenger on any LD train, a good portion are students, people who hate flying, railfans, Amish, people who are traveling to remote locales and yes tourist. But what is a tourist anyway? I met somebody on the CZ who was going to CHI for a vacation and decided to take the train. Does that make him a tourist or a traveler?

BTW- I didn't know that Amtrak ran "average commuter trains" on it's 2,000+ mile routes

I take LD trains for business trips under 1000 miles. Two words have changed business travel and Amtrak does seem to know it yet; "Wireless Internet". I can get internet about 50% of the time with my T-mobile Blackberry on the train. They need to add wireless internet in more station. PS I take the CZ from Chicago to Omaha all the time on business.

 

[George Harris]

There is one big difference between Amtraks LD trains and european trains:
On the CZ 95% of the passengers are tourists, on the average european train about 20% of the passengers are tourists.

Over here we use trains as a normal way to get from point A to point B. Even on international night trains you get quite few people who travel for professional reasons. This means that there is no special excitement for an average european in the fact that he's travelling by train.

While the average american is completely excited when he can get from Williams to the Grand Canyon travelling in an average commuter train.

For the Grand Canyon train, yes to the 95%, if not higher. The CZ is also probably fairly high in the percentalge of tourists, particularly west of Denver, but 95% is probably a stretch. For the rest, I would suspect that half if not more are in the getting from "A" to "B" without using Greyhound, driving, or flying. Then, if you go to trains like the Amtrak California services, the tourist percentage is probably well under the 20% levle.

 

[the_traveler]

But what is a tourist anyway? I met somebody on the CZ who was going to CHI for a vacation and decided to take the train. Does that make him a tourist or a traveler?

It wasn't me - so they must have been a tourist! :lol:

But I agree, some may be tourists, but many are using Amtrak to get somewhere for a reason. Just looking at me, I have a reason to go to PDX, so am I a tourist when I travel on the SWC between CHI-LAX and a traveler between LAX and PDX? :huh: And which am I between WAS and BHM? :huh: (It's the opposite direction to "home" - wherever that is!) But I'm going from PDX to KIN!

 

[sunchaser]

But what is a tourist anyway? I met somebody on the CZ who was going to CHI for a vacation and decided to take the train. Does that make him a tourist or a traveler?

It wasn't me - so they must have been a tourist! :lol:

But I agree, some may be tourists, but many are using Amtrak to get somewhere for a reason. Just looking at me, I have a reason to go to PDX, so am I a tourist when I travel on the SWC between CHI-LAX and a traveler between LAX and PDX? :huh: And which am I between WAS and BHM? :huh: (It's the opposite direction to "home" - wherever that is!) But I'm going from PDX to KIN!

Soooo, if you're a railfan, you also a tourist???? :lol:

I thought you guys/gals all wore train themed stuff- complete with a fez, not straw hats, sunglasses, flip flops, bermuda shorts & wild hawaiin shirts!!! And sipping some drink with pineapple & a small umbrella!

Or do you combine the look?

 

[Sam31452]

I don't think there is a majority passenger on any LD train, a good portion are students, people who hate flying, railfans, Amish, people who are traveling to remote locales and yes tourist. But what is a tourist anyway? I met somebody on the CZ who was going to CHI for a vacation and decided to take the train. Does that make him a tourist or a traveler?

If it's leisure travel, it makes him a tourist. If it's for business or anything similar (like having your family 1000miles away or so) i wouldn't call him a tourist. The case may be different on other trains, but for the CZ it's 95% tourists.

For the Grand Canyon train, yes to the 95%, if not higher.

Show me somebody who takes part on a train ride which includes a fake robbery for professional reasons and i'll show you somebody who works as a fake train robber.

PS I take the CZ from Chicago to Omaha all the time on business.

Congratulations, you are one of the other 5 or maybe 10%. Not to mention that you use exactly the part of CZs route which has (after my opinion) the biggest potential of attracting people who travel for professional reasons.

 

[sunchaser]

But what is a tourist anyway? I met somebody on the CZ who was going to CHI for a vacation and decided to take the train. Does that make him a tourist or a traveler?

It wasn't me - so they must have been a tourist! :lol:

But I agree, some may be tourists, but many are using Amtrak to get somewhere for a reason. Just looking at me, I have a reason to go to PDX, so am I a tourist when I travel on the SWC between CHI-LAX and a traveler between LAX and PDX? :huh: And which am I between WAS and BHM? :huh: (It's the opposite direction to "home" - wherever that is!) But I'm going from PDX to KIN!

Sooo, you're a tourist & a railfan?

So does that mean you dress as a tourist, with sunglasses, straw hat, flip flops, bermuda shorts & a wild hawaiian shirt, and wander around with a drink with an umbrella in it?

Or as a railfan, with train themed clothing & a fez? Snapping pics, with a scanner, gps, notebook, etc., hanging out of your fully stuffed backpack?

Or a combination of both?

Please post the photos!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I don't think there is a majority passenger on any LD train, a good portion are students, people who hate flying, railfans, Amish, people who are traveling to remote locales and yes tourist. But what is a tourist anyway? I met somebody on the CZ who was going to CHI for a vacation and decided to take the train. Does that make him a tourist or a traveler?

If it's leisure travel, it makes him a tourist. If it's for business or anything similar (like having your family 1000miles away or so) i wouldn't call him a tourist. The case may be different on other trains, but for the CZ it's 95% tourists.

Well who cares if they're going for business or pleasure? I bet I can find some flights that are 90% tourist flights... Atlanta to San Juan?

Point is you can't make a broad generalization like that-- what is leisure? I used the Penny back and forth to NYP because I was going to school-- was that business? I have advised people who don't have much stuff to move by train. Is moving leisure?

You can't just say everybody is either 'business' or 'leisure'. There are many shades of grey and the pax are more diverse than you could ever assume they would be--