Vermonter Timetable Improvements

[Mike S.]

Hey guys,

I just quickly checked the new timetable for the Vermonter and it appears to be almost identical to one from last summer. When will the 25-30 minutes of travel time reduction be added?

Mike S.

 

[Anderson]

My guess is that they're planning to pad things out until all the construction is done. That's just a hunch, but it's also my best guess on the matter.

Edit: It's entirely possible that there's a desire to avoid screwing with the schedule repeatedly. It's one thing to incessantly tweak the NEC timetables, but on a once-daily service like this, Amtrak probably wants to switch things all in one go.

 

[afigg]

There was a statement by a Vermont official in late summer when the track upgrades in VT were completed that 25 minutes would be taken off of the Vermonter schedule in the next timetable release. The next timetable release was delayed until January and there was no change in the Vermonter schedule when it took effect. Don' t know why Amtrak would delay the schedule change, maybe they liked the improvement in on-time performance and decided to postpone the schedule change until spring.

My guess to minimize the effects of an interim schedule change is that the schedule would remain the same south of VT. Just have a later departure from and earlier arrival in St. Albans The track upgrade on the CT River line is supposed to finished in 2014, hopefully early 2014. So any schedule change this year will be followed by another 25 minute reduction in trip time in 2014 with new stations opening in Greenfield, Northampton, Holyoke MA.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I sure hope these track upgrades are put towards extension of service to MTR again. One less hour shouth of thhe border could free up time for the extension.

 

[transit54]

I have some connections at the state level and none of them were able to tell me anything. I have a feeling the delay is on Amtrak's end.

And yes, Gov Shumlin has made a commitment to extend the train the Montreal and has been taking steps towards this. I think the current estimates put it in the 2017-2018 timeframe if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Jay]

Here's the new Amtrak timetable put up on VT rail action network: http://railvermont.org/news/97-vermonts-amtrak-trains/376-vermonter-speeds-to-increase-march-1.html

I would seriously recommend the Governor take a look at buying some of the Stradler GTW trainsets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadler_GTW) being used in Texas now. They can go fast enough to hit the new top speeds, have decent capacity for a 5-6 times a day regional service linking Montreal-Essex/Burlington- White River/ Brattleboro and Essex/Burlington- Rutland/Albany.

The old Montrealer timetable shows a 2 hr 20min trip from Montreal to Essex/Burlington (http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track6/montrealer196009.html) and another 1.5 to Rutland and 3 hours to Brattleboro. A state regional system would connect the state together with quick small regional trains that are cheap to operate, promote economic synergies and growth and have dozens of similar examples to learn from.

 

[the_traveler]

The GTW could be used maybe on "short" hauls, but I doubt that many would want to ride them from MTR to WAS or Burlington to NYP!

 

[The Davy Crockett]

The old Montrealer timetable shows... ...and another 1.5 to Rutland and 3 hours to Brattleboro.

I think you mean Montpelier Jct. and not Rutland. The Montrealer never stopped in Rutland to my knowledge and Montpelier Jct. fits that time frame.

 

[afigg]

Saw this news link posted on rr.net from the Vermont Rail Action Network. The Vermonter schedule changes will take place on March 1 with 28 minutes taken from the trip times north of the VT border. The Amtrak reservation system shows the schedule changes starting on March 1.

This may be the first significant trip time schedule reduction for Amtrak made possible by the HSIPR stimulus grants. The Downeaster extended service to Freeport and Brunswick because of the stimulus grants, yes, but those were not trip time improvements. CHI to STL has a short 110 mph segment, but that is mainly for show and system testing with little change on the trip times (until more of the corridor work is completed).

 

[CHamilton]

Train speeds to increase in Vermont March 11

MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) — The Vermont Transportation Agency is warning people that trains will be moving faster between the Massachusetts border and St. Albans.

On March 11, train speeds are being increased to up to 79 miles per hour south of White River Junction and up to 59 mph to the north.

The speed increases follow upgrades to the tracks.

The upgrades included improvements to 46 road crossings, but there are still a number of non-gated crossings.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Train speeds to increase in Vermont March 11

MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) — The Vermont Transportation Agency is warning people that trains will be moving faster between the Massachusetts border and St. Albans.

On March 11, train speeds are being increased to up to 79 miles per hour south of White River Junction and up to 59 mph to the north.

The speed increases follow upgrades to the tracks.

The upgrades included improvements to 46 road crossings, but there are still a number of non-gated crossings.

Nice! Every little helps! Let's work to getting the Montrealer back, day train or not!

BTW, about the multiple units, more of them are not very comfortable and they are better used for commuter services. Even high-speed MUs in Europe are not very comfortable.

 

[Acela150]

Train speeds to increase in Vermont March 11

MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) — The Vermont Transportation Agency is warning people that trains will be moving faster between the Massachusetts border and St. Albans.

On March 11, train speeds are being increased to up to 79 miles per hour south of White River Junction and up to 59 mph to the north.

The speed increases follow upgrades to the tracks.

The upgrades included improvements to 46 road crossings, but there are still a number of non-gated crossings.

Nice! Every little helps! Let's work to getting the Montrealer back, day train or not!

BTW, about the multiple units, more of them are not very comfortable and they are better used for commuter services. Even high-speed MUs in Europe are not very comfortable.

I'd be looking for an extension to Montreal to be a Mid to Late Afternoon departure from Washington if Amtrak Adds a train.

 

[battalion51]

They'll definitely have to play with the schedules a little bit if Montreal ever comes to fruition. At worst you would want to see a 9 PM arrival in Montreal and 7 AM departure. Not only will this allow for decent times for the traveling public, but this will also ensure that your crew is able to get their rest in.

 

[Anderson]

1) It seems like even though the work was done before, it had to get signed off on by an agency somewhere.

2) Acela, you're looking at resurrecting the overnight Montrealer. I really only see that as a third/fourth train (i.e. behind the Adirondack, this, and probably a Boston train or Boston section). It's a pity, too, because there's probably an NYP-terminating Regional that Vermont could manage to get extended and adapted, and VT's involvement plus an off-peak slot request might actually get the train through CT.

 

[afigg]

They'll definitely have to play with the schedules a little bit if Montreal ever comes to fruition. At worst you would want to see a 9 PM arrival in Montreal and 7 AM departure. Not only will this allow for decent times for the traveling public, but this will also ensure that your crew is able to get their rest in.

Extending the Vermonter to Montreal will not happen until after the re-route back to the CT River line takes place, which will take another ~25 minutes off of the current trip time. Depending on when the extension can actually be implemented, there could be some trip time reductions on the NHV-SPG corridor and New Haven line that would help to schedule a Vermonter that arrives & departs Montreal at reasonable hours.

The odds of an extension to Montreal are pretty good. Gov. Shumlin was in Montreal several weeks ago to sign a cooperation agreement with the Quebec Premier Pauline Marois on cross border passenger & freight rail and roads. I had to go back and dig up a link to the AP story which I saw but never got around to posting on here. The major potential news item in the report is:

MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) — Quebec Premier Pauline Marois is committed to improving rail connections between Montreal and the U.S. border, possibly taking an hour off the trip to New York, Gov. Peter Shumlin said Monday.

If that means that Quebec will pay for track improvements on the Canadian side and is not just the time savings from the customs inspection at the border, that would be significant for both the Vermonter and Adirondack. Assuming that the agreement for the US Customs facility can be reached and approved.

As for an overnight train to MTR on the Vermonter route, I would regard that as very unlikely in the foreseeable future. Under the current rules of the PRIIA act, it would have to be a state subsidized train. Why the heck would VT or NY subsidize a train that passes through their state overnight, terminating outside of their state? A daytime Vermonter running between MTR and NYP/WAS provides daytime connections to major cities from the stations in VT in both directions.

BTW, good news for the Vermonter in the January 2013 monthly report: ridership was up +8.7% in January and is up +4.6% for the first four months of the fiscal year.

 

[Heading North]

It's true that VT may not have a good incentive to support an overnight train, but here are two thoughts:

1) From what I've heard, some of the ski resorts benefitted from the overnight in that it enables two full days of skiing for a quick weekend trip, but I can't speak to the demand.

2) If the timing is right, it would enable easy day trips to Montreal from northern Vermont (say, White River Junction through St. Albans).

 

[The Davy Crockett]

It's true that VT may not have a good incentive to support an overnight train, but here are two thoughts:1) From what I've heard, some of the ski resorts benefitted from the overnight in that it enables two full days of skiing for a quick weekend trip, but I can't speak to the demand.

2) If the timing is right, it would enable easy day trips to Montreal from northern Vermont (say, White River Junction through St. Albans).

As someone who use to catch the Montrealer in literally the middle of the night to and from Brattleboro to points south, (1:10 AM SB & 3:20 AM NB) I can tell you that it was no picnic. The folks who rode it tended to be either young, foamers, insomniacs and crazy people - or some combination of these . While a late departure from NYP - and the stations just to the north - might attract skiers in the winter months, it would hardly justify changing the schedule to accomodate them. Besides, if folks want a later departure to VT out of NYP on Fridays, there is now the Ethan Allen.

As far as "easy" day trips to Montreal, on the Montrealer one would have needed to depart from no further south than MPR, and even that was a 6:24 AM departure.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Train speeds to increase in Vermont March 11

MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) — The Vermont Transportation Agency is warning people that trains will be moving faster between the Massachusetts border and St. Albans.

On March 11, train speeds are being increased to up to 79 miles per hour south of White River Junction and up to 59 mph to the north.

The speed increases follow upgrades to the tracks.

The upgrades included improvements to 46 road crossings, but there are still a number of non-gated crossings.

Nice! Every little helps! Let's work to getting the Montrealer back, day train or not!

BTW, about the multiple units, more of them are not very comfortable and they are better used for commuter services. Even high-speed MUs in Europe are not very comfortable.

I'd be looking for an extension to Montreal to be a Mid to Late Afternoon departure from Washington if Amtrak Adds a train.

So, a departure around 3:00PM? That would get into Montreal around 6:00AM.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Vermont is not going to pay for a train that transverses the state in the middle of the night and I doubt if Amtrak will ever add a "national" long distance train again.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Vermont is not going to pay for a train that transverses the state in the middle of the night and I doubt if Amtrak will ever add a "national" long distance train again.

Hmm, they might add the BL though.

 

[transit54]

FYI there will be a press release in the next few days regarding the new timetable which includes the time savings, which will take effect on March 18th. You can see the new timepoints for the service if you attempt to book a trip on or after the 18th.

Essentially, they have delayed the departure from St Albans in the AM, and the train arrives earlier in the PM. IMO, while the time improvement in welcome, this is not the best way to use the time savings. I have reason to be hopeful, however, that this configuration will not be the permanent implementation of the time savings. Whether things will change before the MA work comes online, I do not know.

Once the MA work is done, if the schedule is adjusted properly, connections from the northbound Silver Meteor maybe be possible at WAS, or perhaps even to the westbound Lakeshore Limited in SPG (but that is a bit more of a stretch).

 

[Anderson]

The biggest problem with moving things around on the NEC is that, well, it's the NEC and it's extremely busy (esp. around NYP). Granted, moving it in the middle of the day isn't going to be as big a deal as a peak-hour move would be, but it's still a hassle. The other question is how much time will be needed on the MTR side of things. If they need all of that time to get the train into MTR at a decent hour, then it should come off of that end. If it's not needed, though, then moving things later on the southern end NB (and earlier on the southern end SB) would be a good use of time.

 

[fairviewroad]

It's true that VT may not have a good incentive to support an overnight train, but here are two thoughts:1) From what I've heard, some of the ski resorts benefitted from the overnight in that it enables two full days of skiing for a quick weekend trip, but I can't speak to the demand.

2) If the timing is right, it would enable easy day trips to Montreal from northern Vermont (say, White River Junction through St. Albans).

The weekend skiing market may produce large numbers on Fridays and Sundays in the winter, but that leaves the other 300+ days of the year

to worry about.

Also, I find it hard to believe there's enough demand for day trips to Montreal to use that as a justification for a particular schedule.

 

[Anderson]

It's true that VT may not have a good incentive to support an overnight train, but here are two thoughts:1) From what I've heard, some of the ski resorts benefitted from the overnight in that it enables two full days of skiing for a quick weekend trip, but I can't speak to the demand.

2) If the timing is right, it would enable easy day trips to Montreal from northern Vermont (say, White River Junction through St. Albans).

The weekend skiing market may produce large numbers on Fridays and Sundays in the winter, but that leaves the other 300+ days of the year

to worry about.

Also, I find it hard to believe there's enough demand for day trips to Montreal to use that as a justification for a particular schedule.

I don't believe that either day trips to Montreal from Vermont or skiing are the main justification here. The big reason to run an overnight train is to allow folks to get to Montreal without losing a whole day in transit and to allow connections further south without either getting into WAS at nearly 2 AM (been there, done that) or having to overnight somewhere along the line (been there, done that as well).

 

[transit54]

The biggest problem with moving things around on the NEC is that, well, it's the NEC and it's extremely busy (esp. around NYP). Granted, moving it in the middle of the day isn't going to be as big a deal as a peak-hour move would be, but it's still a hassle. The other question is how much time will be needed on the MTR side of things. If they need all of that time to get the train into MTR at a decent hour, then it should come off of that end. If it's not needed, though, then moving things later on the southern end NB (and earlier on the southern end SB) would be a good use of time.

There's no question that it is undoubtably a hassle for Amtrak. However, with the State of VT footing the bill for the train, they need to optimize the schedule to fit with the State's priorities to the greatest extent possible. While the extension to MTR is going to be a factor in the future, as best I can tell it really isn't on anyone's radar as far as scheduling is concerned. Obviously, an MTR departure is going to push back the time of the train, unless it's a very early departure, but I think that really shouldn't be an issue, provided that you move the train forward by a significant enough margin. But we're at least 4-5 years away from that at the moment.