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USrail21

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The Vermonter is a semi-express Amtrak line that operates from Washington DC to Saint Albans. But there are 2 problems that trouble me. First of all, why did Amtrak cut the Vermonter short from going from Montreal. That was actually kind of stupid since Montreal is a large city (even though it is in Canada) and Saint Albans is a tiny town. So solution, if Amtrak is smart enough, they would run the Vermonter back to Montreal. Second, why does Vermonter stop at Metropark on weekends only. What is about that. It should stop there at all times. Metropark is a busy station for not long Amtrak lines. It had >300,000 passengers. So Vermonter should stop there at all times. So those are the two problems that should be fixed.http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/public/style_extra/post_icons/icon10.gif
 
The Vermonter is a semi-express Amtrak line that operates from Washington DC to Saint Albans. But there are 2 problems that trouble me. First of all, why did Amtrak cut the Vermonter short from going from Montreal. That was actually kind of stupid since Montreal is a large city (even though it is in Canada) and Saint Albans is a tiny town. So solution, if Amtrak is smart enough, they would run the Vermonter back to Montreal.
Montreal got cancelled due to bad calling times, low ridership, delays due to customs at the border crossings, and the fact that Vermont pays for the train. So Vermont gets a say in where it runs.

Second, why does Vermonter stop at Metropark on weekends only. What is about that. It should stop there at all times. Metropark is a busy station for not long Amtrak lines. It had >300,000 passengers. So Vermonter should stop there at all times. So those are the two problems that should be fixed.http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/public/style_extra/post_icons/icon10.gif
I really wish you'd be consistent with things. Here you're complaining about a train skipping a stop that only services 300,000 people. Yet in other posts you want to close stations that serve even more people. Please make up your mind.
 
Dont want to make a new thread

IF US and Canada agreed to build a HSR between NY and Montreal would it go through Vermonter route or closer to Adirondack route? Because aside from Albany I dont see any potential stops between NYP and MON.
 
The Vermonter is a semi-express Amtrak line that operates from Washington DC to Saint Albans. But there are 2 problems that trouble me. First of all, why did Amtrak cut the Vermonter short from going from Montreal. That was actually kind of stupid since Montreal is a large city (even though it is in Canada) and Saint Albans is a tiny town. So solution, if Amtrak is smart enough, they would run the Vermonter back to Montreal.
The reasons, as AlanB stated, for the Vermonter to terminate at St. Albans were costs and, as backdrop, slow running times due to deteriorating track conditions and the re-route to Palmer MA. Wikipedia entry on the Vermonter has a history of the train.

However, the Governor of Vermont wants to restore Vermonter service to Montreal as reported in this Burlington Free Press article from August. The funded track improvements in central MA and in Vermont up to St. Albans make the prospects of restoring service more likely. The big issue as the article discusses is where and how to provide the customs facility. The second is finding the funds to upgrade the tracks north of St. Albans. The third is who pays for any track improvements on the Canadian side?

MA is also interested in a Boston to Montreal train which would would go to Springfield and then north through central MA rather than the more direct route through NH. Whether there would be 2 daily trains through eastern VT to Montreal is an open question. These are not solid near term plans, but more of a wish list for MA. The idea of a secure customs facility in Montreal may also be of interest to NY state which raised that idea in their state rail plan for the Adirondack. There are a number of US and Canadian agencies who have to get involved in approval of and negotiations on any such facility. US State Department, Customs, DHS, Border Patrol, their Canadian counterparts, the state governments, etc. Type of project that would need the full support of governors who are in office long enough to see it through.
 
Ok, lost an original post to spotty WAS wi-fi thanks to being parked next to an Acela or two. Cue irony.

1) Good to get an answer on that question, even if a crappy calling time in MTR might help with crewing issues. I'd sort of wondered the same thing...St. Alban's is a strange place to end a train.

2) As to NYP-MTR HSR, there are two answers I suspect:

-If the BOS-MTR plan goes ahead, a connecting, compatible line from that line to New Haven might happen to satisfy the NYP-MTR market demand (since otherwise, you'd likely get some wacky extension of the shuttle to save people going to Boston and then effectively backtracking...cue a royal mess)

-More likely, I think NYP-MTR would go up the Adirondack's line. My reasoning is this: 1) Albany is still a bigger market than most of the intermediate markets on the Vermonter, NHV possibly excepted; 2) IIRC, there is some kind of plan to upgrade NYP-ALB, but I can never recall what the plan is or what the desired equipment types are; 3) NYP-MTR avoids the Connecticut-related hangups that make a mess of NYP-BOS service at times; and 4) If the NYP-ALB equipment types are compatible with the Acelas, Amtrak might simply (with a large enough Acela II order) run a couple of the terminate-at-NYP trains up the Hudson to ALB, and then continue a few to MTR (while others, again pending compatibility, would go out west in NY state).

2 and 4 are subject to what the plans in New York State actually end up being; honestly, 1 and 3 are bigger concerns, since Amtrak could just skip the 2/4 issues by getting some dual-power engines like they use in the UK and run them on the lines, which might enable WAS-NYP-ALB-MTR trips as well. Even assuming a 110-125 MPH top speed and a good deal of running below that, if Amtrak ran most of these "express" from ALB-MTR (or frankly, ran a couple effectively non-stop NYP-ALB-MTR), they could whack a lot of time off the trip.

Another question: How long would a restored Montrealer have to go once it hit the border? If it's only 30 miles or so, just "putzing" along for that last segment might not be a deal-killer if it's "only" 30 miles.

Finally: Where can I get a look at NY state's plans, afigg?
 
Dont want to make a new thread

IF US and Canada agreed to build a HSR between NY and Montreal would it go through Vermonter route or closer to Adirondack route? Because aside from Albany I dont see any potential stops between NYP and MON.
The route of a proposed HSR line between NYC and Montreal would be the key issue of several rounds of studies. Got to do the Tier I and Tier II EIS, alternatives analysis, engineering studies first. Also, what type of HSR would it be? 110 mph corridor trains? Electrified 160-180 mph trains? 220 mph? If it went through western Vermont, it would probably have stops at Rutland and Burlington.

For NY state, figuring the HSR line would follow the current route to Albany and to Schenectady, there would presumably be stops at Croton-Harmon, Poughkeepsie, Hudson, Albany, Schenectady, Saratoga Springs, and a couple TBD stops in northern NY state or in VT. Because there are stations there, does not mean every HSR train would stop at all the HSR stations. There would be express trains and semi-express trains. True HSR means high frequency of service to justify the cost, not 3-4 trains a day. However, the prospects of a NYC to Montreal HSR line even starting construction in the next 20 years are limited. US and Canada have to start on their own internal HSR lines first.
 
-If the BOS-MTR plan goes ahead, a connecting, compatible line from that line to New Haven might happen to satisfy the NYP-MTR market demand (since otherwise, you'd likely get some wacky extension of the shuttle to save people going to Boston and then effectively backtracking...cue a royal mess)

-More likely, I think NYP-MTR would go up the Adirondack's line. My reasoning is this: 1) Albany is still a bigger market than most of the intermediate markets on the Vermonter, NHV possibly excepted; 2) IIRC, there is some kind of plan to upgrade NYP-ALB, but I can never recall what the plan is or what the desired equipment types are; 3) NYP-MTR avoids the Connecticut-related hangups that make a mess of NYP-BOS service at times; and 4) If the NYP-ALB equipment types are compatible with the Acelas, Amtrak might simply (with a large enough Acela II order) run a couple of the terminate-at-NYP trains up the Hudson to ALB, and then continue a few to MTR (while others, again pending compatibility, would go out west in NY state).

Another question: How long would a restored Montrealer have to go once it hit the border? If it's only 30 miles or so, just "putzing" along for that last segment might not be a deal-killer if it's "only" 30 miles.

Finally: Where can I get a look at NY state's plans, afigg?
To your last question, google is your friend. :D

New York 2009 State Rail Plan (Page 92 mentions a 2004 analysis on reducing Adirondack Schenectady to Rouses Point trip times by 38 minutes).

Massachusetts 2010 State Rail Plan

I suspect you are over-thinking the current plans. MA would be looking at a BOS to Springfield to Montreal train (with track and signal upgrades from BOS to SPG). Which might meet up with a NB Inland Route Regional at Springfield, but this would the even slower route to Montreal for someone in NYC over the Adirondack.

VT wants 2 daily trains over the Vermonter route in VT. The 2nd train may be the BOS-MTR train which would provide direct service from the VT stops to Worcester and Boston. Now if the Vermonter is extended to MTR, that would provide one seat ride to MTR from WAS and PHL for those willing to take a long day trip and an alternate one seat ride over a longer route from NYP.

We are a long way from running any Acelas up to Albany, let alone to MTR. I don't know if NY State and Amtrak have ever done serious engineering studies of catenary electrification to Albany. Now that Amtrak and Metro-North have control of the line to Albany, that might be on the table, but the NIMBYs along the Hudson river would present a considerable obstacle. How Metro-North would regard catenary over their portion of Hudson Line, no idea.

What NY State discusses in their plan is cutting the Albany to Montreal trip times to 6-1/2 hours which would require pre-boarding and arrival customs checkpoint in Montreal, not a hour plus stop at the border. If the Adirondack NYP-MTR trip times can be cut to 8-1/2 to 9 hours, that might get enough ridership to support adding a second daily Adirondack. One that departs early in the morning, the second at mid-day. That is how support is incrementally built for a true HSR line from NYC to Montreal.

If there were 3 daily trains (Adirondack, Vermonter, BOS-MTR) from the US to Montreal, that could provide enough of a base to justify a secure customs facility setup in Montreal. Three daily Amtrak trains to Montreal would be very cool. All daytime trains however from my read of the plans.
 
I'd sort of wondered the same thing...St. Alban's is a strange place to end a train.

Not really from an operational standpoint; it's New England Central's main yard/servicing facility. While I'd rather see the Vermonter rerouted to Burlington Union Station from Essex Junction, there's no place to store the trainset overnight in downtown Burlington, so St. Albans it is.
 
I'd sort of wondered the same thing...St. Alban's is a strange place to end a train.

Not really from an operational standpoint; it's New England Central's main yard/servicing facility. While I'd rather see the Vermonter rerouted to Burlington Union Station from Essex Junction, there's no place to store the trainset overnight in downtown Burlington, so St. Albans it is.
Why couldn't it be stored in the VRS rail yard right in downtown? Or couldn't it just be parked along the tracks at Union Station and cleaned there? They left the 40th Anniversary Train parked there for several days. I'm aware that the NECR needs to move interchange freight through there, but that could take place during the day when the train isn't parked there.

I think the main problem is the condition of the track from Essex Jct to Burlington.
 
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