Viewliner Diner on the Road

[Dutchrailnut]

We've talked about this before, but let's look at this again from a practical standpoint. Is there no way to have a Viewliner coach where the headroom is the same as a Heritage or Amfleet and the resulting space beneath could be used for luggage? It would be almost like the crawl space under a bus. It just seems to me that there is an awful lot of wasted space in a baggage car, and they are so poorly maintained - how long will 75 brand new ones last?
If I haven't seen with my own eyes how poorly checked baggage is treated on Amtrak (across the country on at least two different services), I may have a different opinion. But it seems like if they are going to exploit the Viewliner design (which I'm totally in favor of), why not make them a bit more utilitarian (not in aesthetics, but in function)?

And how would a passenger get his lugage out of those underbody Bagage holds?? specially at a High level platform like on N E C and some of its feeder lines.

 

[AlanB]

Right now, the only trains at BOS with checked luggage are the Lake Shore Limited and the train formerly known as the Twilight Shoreliner.

...And it doesn't seem to be too much of a problem.

It would also be nice if Amtrak always had absolute priority, but I don't see it buying UP anytime soon.

Lack of luggage service on the NEC is a big problem. There are plenty of people who are left holding the bag as it were and are sometimes put off from traveling on Amtrak because of a lack of service on the NEC.

 

[Ryan]

We've talked about this before, but let's look at this again from a practical standpoint. Is there no way to have a Viewliner coach where the headroom is the same as a Heritage or Amfleet and the resulting space beneath could be used for luggage? It would be almost like the crawl space under a bus. It just seems to me that there is an awful lot of wasted space in a baggage car, and they are so poorly maintained - how long will 75 brand new ones last?
If I haven't seen with my own eyes how poorly checked baggage is treated on Amtrak (across the country on at least two different services), I may have a different opinion. But it seems like if they are going to exploit the Viewliner design (which I'm totally in favor of), why not make them a bit more utilitarian (not in aesthetics, but in function)?

And how would a passenger get his lugage out of those underbody Bagage holds?? specially at a High level platform like on N E C and some of its feeder lines.

Not to mention the resulting cars would either have to have the vestibules raised in every car to accommodate the higher floor (rendering the equipment incompatible with everything else on the rails today), or have two flights of stairs inside each car (ADA issues?).

 

[VentureForth]

We've talked about this before, but let's look at this again from a practical standpoint. Is there no way to have a Viewliner coach where the headroom is the same as a Heritage or Amfleet and the resulting space beneath could be used for luggage? It would be almost like the crawl space under a bus. It just seems to me that there is an awful lot of wasted space in a baggage car, and they are so poorly maintained - how long will 75 brand new ones last?
If I haven't seen with my own eyes how poorly checked baggage is treated on Amtrak (across the country on at least two different services), I may have a different opinion. But it seems like if they are going to exploit the Viewliner design (which I'm totally in favor of), why not make them a bit more utilitarian (not in aesthetics, but in function)?

And how would a passenger get his lugage out of those underbody Bagage holds?? specially at a High level platform like on N E C and some of its feeder lines.

When does a passenger ever get his own luggage from the checked baggage car?

 

[VentureForth]

We've talked about this before, but let's look at this again from a practical standpoint. Is there no way to have a Viewliner coach where the headroom is the same as a Heritage or Amfleet and the resulting space beneath could be used for luggage? It would be almost like the crawl space under a bus. It just seems to me that there is an awful lot of wasted space in a baggage car, and they are so poorly maintained - how long will 75 brand new ones last?
If I haven't seen with my own eyes how poorly checked baggage is treated on Amtrak (across the country on at least two different services), I may have a different opinion. But it seems like if they are going to exploit the Viewliner design (which I'm totally in favor of), why not make them a bit more utilitarian (not in aesthetics, but in function)?

And how would a passenger get his lugage out of those underbody Bagage holds?? specially at a High level platform like on N E C and some of its feeder lines.

Not to mention the resulting cars would either have to have the vestibules raised in every car to accommodate the higher floor (rendering the equipment incompatible with everything else on the rails today), or have two flights of stairs inside each car (ADA issues?).

It's all in the engineering. Perhaps it can be worked out, perhaps it can't. I just can't help but wonder if there is a way to better utilize the size of the Viewliner shells to incorporate baggage rather than continuing to use baggage cars.

I know that there is no such thing as checked luggage on Japanese long distance trains (even the overnighters). Does Europe have checked luggage? 75 new baggage cars seems like money better suited towards other new technologies and solutions, not rehashes of the same old problem.

 

[Tony]

It's all in the engineering. Perhaps it can be worked out, perhaps it can't. I just can't help but wonder if there is a way to better utilize the size of the Viewliner shells to incorporate baggage rather than continuing to use baggage cars.

How would two or three new Viewliner cars handle all the baggage from a long distance train like the Silvers? Those few Viewliner cars will need to accommodate not only all the sleeper passenger's checked luggage, but all the checked luggage from all the coach cars.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Right now, the only trains at BOS with checked luggage are the Lake Shore Limited and the train formerly known as the Twilight Shoreliner.

...And it doesn't seem to be too much of a problem.

It would also be nice if Amtrak always had absolute priority, but I don't see it buying UP anytime soon.

Lack of luggage service on the NEC is a big problem. There are plenty of people who are left holding the bag as it were and are sometimes put off from traveling on Amtrak because of a lack of service on the NEC.

Right but adding checked bags would be a big issue I mean they would have to make a baggage corridor car as to not slow operations down and even with that there would need to be ALOT of them.

 

[AlanB]

Right now, the only trains at BOS with checked luggage are the Lake Shore Limited and the train formerly known as the Twilight Shoreliner.

...And it doesn't seem to be too much of a problem.

It would also be nice if Amtrak always had absolute priority, but I don't see it buying UP anytime soon.

Lack of luggage service on the NEC is a big problem. There are plenty of people who are left holding the bag as it were and are sometimes put off from traveling on Amtrak because of a lack of service on the NEC.

Right but adding checked bags would be a big issue I mean they would have to make a baggage corridor car as to not slow operations down and even with that there would need to be ALOT of them.

Don't need one for every train, but there should be maybe 4 or 5 runs in each direction that carry luggage.

If you're in the Boston area and connecting to either a Silver or the Crescent, you have a big problem if you want more luggage than the two allowed carry-on's. Your choice is to either not bring what you want and perhaps need, or show up at South station the day before and check your bag onto 66/67. Alternatively you could return to your arriving station the next day when you bag shows up because it went out of Boston that night, long after you left.

Neither is an attractive alternative and it does put people off from traveling on Amtrak.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Right now, the only trains at BOS with checked luggage are the Lake Shore Limited and the train formerly known as the Twilight Shoreliner.

...And it doesn't seem to be too much of a problem.

It would also be nice if Amtrak always had absolute priority, but I don't see it buying UP anytime soon.

Lack of luggage service on the NEC is a big problem. There are plenty of people who are left holding the bag as it were and are sometimes put off from traveling on Amtrak because of a lack of service on the NEC.

Right but adding checked bags would be a big issue I mean they would have to make a baggage corridor car as to not slow operations down and even with that there would need to be ALOT of them.

Don't need one for every train, but there should be maybe 4 or 5 runs in each direction that carry luggage.

If you're in the Boston area and connecting to either a Silver or the Crescent, you have a big problem if you want more luggage than the two allowed carry-on's. Your choice is to either not bring what you want and perhaps need, or show up at South station the day before and check your bag onto 66/67. Alternatively you could return to your arriving station the next day when you bag shows up because it went out of Boston that night, long after you left.

Neither is an attractive alternative and it does put people off from traveling on Amtrak.

Hmm. There is no place on a regional where they could make a baggage compartment. So there would have to be a car made or redone. The new baggage cars won't help if there baggage/ crew dorm as thats not needed on the NEC.

 

[Ryan]

We've talked about this before, but let's look at this again from a practical standpoint. Is there no way to have a Viewliner coach where the headroom is the same as a Heritage or Amfleet and the resulting space beneath could be used for luggage? It would be almost like the crawl space under a bus. It just seems to me that there is an awful lot of wasted space in a baggage car, and they are so poorly maintained - how long will 75 brand new ones last?
If I haven't seen with my own eyes how poorly checked baggage is treated on Amtrak (across the country on at least two different services), I may have a different opinion. But it seems like if they are going to exploit the Viewliner design (which I'm totally in favor of), why not make them a bit more utilitarian (not in aesthetics, but in function)?

And how would a passenger get his lugage out of those underbody Bagage holds?? specially at a High level platform like on N E C and some of its feeder lines.

When does a passenger ever get his own luggage from the checked baggage car?

Passenger or not, a below the car solution is going to be inaccessible to anyone at a high platform.

 

[battalion51]

While all of this is hypothetical, I have to wonder if they're not thinking about buying coaches similar to what NJT has bought in the bi-level variety. Obviously this would greatly increase the capacity both on and off the NEC. They could potentially create a baggage area on the upper level of one car, this way it would match up better with the baggage carts. I don't know what the feasibility is, but it'd be a good thing IMHO.

 

[Tony]

In thinking about this some more (adding baggage on the NEC), I would be worried that if Amtrak were pressed enough, baggage might be "sold" as a revenue generator, with (like the airlines) Amtrak charging $25 to check the first bag, and $50 to check the second.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Hmm. There is no place on a regional where they could make a baggage compartment. So there would have to be a car made or redone. The new baggage cars won't help if there baggage/ crew dorm as thats not needed on the NEC.

If Amtrak's only option were baggage-dorm cars, why wouldn't those help on the NEC? They do have the ability to carry roughly half as much baggage as a full baggage car, which would be helpful even if the dorm space went unused, even if it might not be the most cost effective approach.

If there were roomettes in a half-baggage, half-roomette car which weren't needed for crew dorm purposes, they could be sold as revenue compartments. You'd have to convince far less than 10% of the Acela First Class passengers that a roomette on a slightly slower train is more attractive than an Acela FC seat to fill those roomettes. Or you could draw from the passengers who are going to stations not served by the Acela but served by the Northeast Regional. If there are 8 revenue roomettes per car and they each earn Amtrak $200 in revenue a day, that's over half a million dollars a year, which probably means that over time, those 8 revenue roomettes will collect enough money to more than pay for the entire car, and unless that $200 a day is an overestimate, Amtrak is probably throwing money away if they don't do this. (Or maybe I'm not adequately accounting for operating expenses, but it's also very possible that that $200 a day is a pretty major underestimate.)

 

[Long Train Runnin']

While all of this is hypothetical, I have to wonder if they're not thinking about buying coaches similar to what NJT has bought in the bi-level variety. Obviously this would greatly increase the capacity both on and off the NEC. They could potentially create a baggage area on the upper level of one car, this way it would match up better with the baggage carts. I don't know what the feasibility is, but it'd be a good thing IMHO.

AlanB or Jis may recall better then I but the new ACES service has the bi-levels with luggage racks with all the racks there really are not to many more seats open then on an AMI corridor car. Also there is no over head. With the seats that close the tray table is really right there. Larger people would find it impossible to use. So the bi-levels with luggage racks don't feel like the answer to me.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Hmm. There is no place on a regional where they could make a baggage compartment. So there would have to be a car made or redone. The new baggage cars won't help if there baggage/ crew dorm as thats not needed on the NEC.

If Amtrak's only option were baggage-dorm cars, why wouldn't those help on the NEC? They do have the ability to carry roughly half as much baggage as a full baggage car, which would be helpful even if the dorm space went unused, even if it might not be the most cost effective approach.

If there were roomettes in a half-baggage, half-roomette car which weren't needed for crew dorm purposes, they could be sold as revenue compartments. You'd have to convince far less than 10% of the Acela First Class passengers that a roomette on a slightly slower train is more attractive than an Acela FC seat to fill those roomettes. Or you could draw from the passengers who are going to stations not served by the Acela but served by the Northeast Regional. If there are 8 revenue roomettes per car and they each earn Amtrak $200 in revenue a day, that's over half a million dollars a year, which probably means that over time, those 8 revenue roomettes will collect enough money to more than pay for the entire car, and unless that $200 a day is an overestimate, Amtrak is probably throwing money away if they don't do this. (Or maybe I'm not adequately accounting for operating expenses, but it's also very possible that that $200 a day is a pretty major underestimate.)

Interesting point... Well for a price point you could find what it used to cost when 66/67 ran with a sleeper. They would be more like Day rooms in most cases though. Although BOS to NPN Is quite a long ride... Even if they don't sell the rooms its the government so efficient isn't always what's in mind.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Well for a price point you could find what it used to cost when 66/67 ran with a sleeper.

Except the other factor is how aware the traveling public is of the options. If they made a major effort to advertised private compartments without adding any substantial amount of rolling stock, I bet the prices would go up a lot.

 

[DAWall]

Are there any photos available of the interior of the Viewliner Diner?

I was on the Cardinal on Wednesday when number 8400 was shunted onto the back of Viewliner 62020 Moonlightview in Washington (may be from the Great Downunder but I know how you guys love these details).

The carriage is a total wreck, it has been completely gutted from the kitchen/corridor section and has only minimal panelling left in the dining section. It was accompanied by Amtrak crew from Washington to (I presume - I was in bed) Indianopolis.

Nevertheless, we must have made a pretty cool consist with three Amcans, one Amcan dinerlite, one Viewliner and the one and only (pretend) Viewliner diner.

If you want interior and exterior pics I've got them in my camera and I'm home in just over a week (CZ tomorrow) but I'm blowed if I know how to attach them to a post in this site.

I'll post a travelogue or three when I get home and have a broadband connection, but, overall it has been a very good trip so far (and that has completely jinxed it).

Does anyone know if the 8400 actually made it back to Beech Grove? By what I've been reading it should have been there a couple of days ago.

 

[AlanB]

Well for a price point you could find what it used to cost when 66/67 ran with a sleeper.

I paid $124.89 for a roomette on the last run of the Twilight Shoreliner, BOS - WAS, including railfare.

I paid $140.36 the very next day for a roomette on the first run of the Federal WAS-BOS, again including railfare.

 

[AlanB]

Does anyone know if the 8400 actually made it back to Beech Grove? By what I've been reading it should have been there a couple of days ago.

I have to believe so, since it's not even a one night journey from DC to Indianappolis on the Cardinal and I haven't heard of any derailments.

 

[sechs]

Lack of luggage service on the NEC is a big problem.

No, luggage service on the NEC is simply inconvenient.

Boston to Washington is not a great distance. People don't need to lug huge bags with them.

 

[AlanB]

Lack of luggage service on the NEC is a big problem.

No, luggage service on the NEC is simply inconvenient.

Boston to Washington is not a great distance. People don't need to lug huge bags with them.

If we were just talking about BOS - WAS, you might have a partial case, even though there will always be people who do feel the need to lug more. Especially if like they're going to school or to a branch office for a few weeks.

But the big problem is as I stated in this post:

If you're in the Boston area and connecting to either a Silver or the Crescent, you have a big problem if you want more luggage than the two allowed carry-on's. Your choice is to either not bring what you want and perhaps need, or show up at South station the day before and check your bag onto 66/67. Alternatively you could return to your arriving station the next day when you bag shows up because it went out of Boston that night, long after you left.
Neither is an attractive alternative and it does put people off from traveling on Amtrak.

 

[Tony]

Boston to Washington is not a great distance. People don't need to lug huge bags with them.

I think it really depends on the type of passenger. If one is simply commuting to Washington for the day, and planning on returning back that evening, then yes, there isn't a great need for checked baggage.

However, if one is going to Washington for a week or more, then one probably needs to lug huge bags with them.

What the purpose of the Acela and NE Regional? Its it just a longer commuter railroad?

 

[VentureForth]

Maybe this is something already offered in the Northeast with certian geographical boundaries, but if not it should be considered. When I took my family to Japan 6 years ago, I flew into Tokyo and took the bullet train to Osaka. There is no checked baggage on the Shinkansen, so I takkyubiin'd (over ground parcel service like UPS) our four large checked bags from the airport to my parent's house. Repeated the process on the return trip. I've heard of families that own small personal aircraft that Fed Ex their bags to their destination and travel light in their aircraft. Problem in the US is that the geographical range is so large that it's not practical to make it a National Service. And, regionally, I don't think it's cheap to send a 50 lb bag by 2-day delivery (ours in Japan cost $10 per bag - had plenty of necessities for two nights in our carry-ons).

Is there a similar type service available in the NEC region? Checked bags on railroads could become obsolete. I don't think I'd have a problem with that, except that sending bags by FedEx or UPS is not as easy as it is in Japan (per my own perception).

 

[wayman]

Are baggage cars any more valuable to a museum than a freight railroad boxcar in this regard? I seem to recall a couple of aging boxcars parked on sidings (or perhaps abandoned mainlines) near the MBTA Fitchburg Line...

Not hugely more valuable, but a bit since they come with internal lighting, whereas box cars don't. They can also be hooked end to end to allow people to walk through from one car to the next, again something that a box car can't do.

They can also be used as rolling museums, as the West Chester RR does with their baggage car. It serves the dual function of cafe car and local museum car on their excursion trains. A very clever use of a resource!

I suspect there are at least a few heritage railroads which would love to purchase a heritage diner as well--some of these operations have extensive volunteer expertise and could do their own restoration work and keep a diner in operating condition, and the opportunity to have an operating diner to facilitate the true dinner train experience could--given the proper sort of heritage railroad--be a great revenue draw.

 

[DAWall]

Are there any photos available of the interior of the Viewliner Diner?

I was on the Cardinal on Wednesday when number 8400 was shunted onto the back of Viewliner 62020 Moonlightview in Washington (may be from the Great Downunder but I know how you guys love these details).

The carriage is a total wreck, it has been completely gutted from the kitchen/corridor section and has only minimal panelling left in the dining section. It was accompanied by Amtrak crew from Washington to (I presume - I was in bed) Indianopolis.

Nevertheless, we must have made a pretty cool consist with three Amcans, one Amcan dinerlite, one Viewliner and the one and only (pretend) Viewliner diner.

If you want interior and exterior pics I've got them in my camera and I'm home in just over a week (CZ tomorrow) but I'm blowed if I know how to attach them to a post in this site.

I'll post a travelogue or three when I get home and have a broadband connection, but, overall it has been a very good trip so far (and that has completely jinxed it).

Looking forward to the pics! This site does not host pictures, you have to save them somewhere else and then embed a link.

Did you get to go inside the diner? If so, did you do that on your own or did someone let you?

I went by Beech Grove today, the 8400 is there. was on the end of a long line of single level cars on the east side of the shops. Just an observation, Many of the wreaked Superliners that had been line up out back have been moved..and I saw a few sticking out of shops. Looks like there going to work.