Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[Amtrak172]

Looking at the bag-dorms, I am absolutely certain there won't be enough baggage space for typical loads out of New York City on the LSL, Meteor, Star, or Crescent. The baggage area is simply too short; there's maybe room for 8 rack units, maybe only 6. The baggage load arriving at Syracuse NY from the west alone will fill 3 or 4 units, so I can't imagine how much baggage must be going from NY-Chicago or NY-Miami. And Amtrak's planning to allow bicycles, too....

Expect most trains to run with both a bag-dorm and a full baggage car; even if Amtrak tries to operate with only a bag-dorm at first, it won't work on most of the trains.

There may be some clever allocation of space so that the full baggage car is only opened at major stations and the bag-dorm is used for baggage to and from minor stations. I'd expect bikes to be preferentially placed in the bag-dorm. Something similar may be done on western trains where coach-baggage cars are available.

One of the reasons why Amtrak ordered 55 baggage cars as well as the 25 bag/dorms is to use the baggage cars on routes that need the extra baggage space. The bag/dorms will provide rooms for the crew and baggage space (if needed).

Amtrak172

 

[JNaismith]

How many Viewliner Trainsets are in use currently?

 

[neroden]

How many Viewliner Trainsets are in use currently?

My resource for counting stuff like this has always been this page:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/32610-line-numbersconsist-listings/

 

[William W.]

The only trains that I could see running with only a bag-dorm are the Cardinal and 66/67.

Catch me if I'm wrong, but I don't see why Amtrak wouldn't keep the heritage baggage cars that are in better shape around. That way, they can add capacity when needed, and have extras to stand in for bad ordered cars.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The only trains that I could see running with only a bag-dorm are the Cardinal and 66/67.

Catch me if I'm wrong, but I don't see why Amtrak wouldn't keep the heritage baggage cars that are in better shape around. That way, they can add capacity when needed, and have extras to stand in for bad ordered cars.

There aren't any that are " in better shape!" They're worn out and mechanical burdens, run hard and put up wet as the saying goes!

 

[jis]

Ryan is correct. I have heard one of the very high level managers in Amtrak with some real day on this matter say so. I believe as long as Boardman is around this will definitely hold true. After that one never knows.

I also happen to think that Phase IVb is Amtrak's second least attractive scheme on single level trains. The worst of course being the silly lava lamp thing on Acelas and even more so on the Regionals. It would have been better to simply leave them as clean Stainless Steel. Just IMHO.

Improving the interior takes way more money than just striping the exterior. They are not even in the same ballpark in terms of funds needed.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Amtrak172]

How many Viewliner Trainsets are in use currently?

Amtrak has a little less than 50 Viewliner I's still in service.

Amtrak172

 

[Amtrak172]

Ryan is correct. I have heard one of the very high level managers in Amtrak with some real day on this matter say so. I believe as long as Boardman is around this will definitely hold true. After that one never knows.

I also happen to think that Phase IVb is Amtrak's second least attractive scheme on single level trains. The worst of course being the silly lava lamp thing on Acelas and even more so on the Regionals. It would have been better to simply leave them as clean Stainless Steel. Just IMHO.

Improving the interior takes way more money than just striping the exterior. They are not even in the same ballpark in terms of funds needed.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

Phase IVb is way better than phase IV. The shade of blue is better, it doesn't have coach or sleeper etc., and it has Amtrak's current logo.

Amtrak172

 

[rickycourtney]

I don't mind the Phase III stripes... what bugs me is the inconsistent logos and their haphazard placement.

On one version of the logo (the logotype) the "America" is buried in small white type in the blue line. The other version of the logo using the old pointless arrow seems to be stuck on the car wherever there was a free area of stainless steel. Say what you will about phase IVb (or any other phase for that matter) but at least there was consistency with things like logo placement and size.

These things are just basic design principals. Create a consistent "look" and stick with it. But I guess that's expecting too much from Amtrak (a company that spent the last 10+ trying to rebrand itself, removing all traces of the pointless arrow logo, just to bring it back on a limited number of cars for no apparent reason.)

 

[William W.]

For me, having a uniform paint scheme is meaningless on the eastern LD trains, since the train consists themselves aren't uniform. Until they are able to run with all-Viewliner consists, all they really need to do is paint "Amtrak" on the side. I think people tend to notice that a train has three (or even four) different types of cars on it more than they do the paint job.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Having enjoyed another look at the Union Pacific Armour Yellow Passenger Fleet including an E9A & B parked alongside TD Ameritrade in Omaha for the CWS confirms as basic as it is, that is one terrific paint scheme. Of course as with airliners, more paint means more maintenance.

That is why I like Phase IVb. Basic and allows a decent match up of the Duke's Mixture of cars on a typical train.

 

[Amtrak172]

These things are just basic design principals. Create a consistent "look" and stick with it. But I guess that's expecting too much from Amtrak (a company that spent the last 10+ trying to rebrand itself, removing all traces of the pointless arrow logo, just to bring it back on a limited number of cars for no apparent reason.)

This is exactly why I think Amtrak should stick to phase IVb.

Amtrak172

 

[Amtrak172]

For me, having a uniform paint scheme is meaningless on the eastern LD trains, since the train consists themselves aren't uniform. Until they are able to run with all-Viewliner consists, all they really need to do is paint "Amtrak" on the side. I think people tend to notice that a train has three (or even four) different types of cars on it more than they do the paint job.

Same.

Amtrak172

 

[blueman271]

The only trains that I could see running with only a bag-dorm are the Cardinal and 66/67.

Catch me if I'm wrong, but I don't see why Amtrak wouldn't keep the heritage baggage cars that are in better shape around. That way, they can add capacity when needed, and have extras to stand in for bad ordered cars.

What are the chances that 66/67 only get a bag-dorm and not a full sleeper? They could sell the dorm as full revenue space since the cafe stays open all night and that would free up two sleepers for the other Eastern routes.

 

[William W.]

That could be a good idea. It would be a good way to test demand for sleepers on that route without committing two full sleeping cars. Do the bag-dorms have showers though? I feel like that would be an essential feature for a revenue sleeping car, especially if the bag-dorm provides the only sleeping space on the entire train. If they are going to try to market the train to business travelers, a shower is a must.

 

[TommyBNSF]

What I don't get is why they would just repaint the single level trains. The Superliner trains will have the new baggage cars and they're long distance so it would make sense to restripe them as well. We'll just have to see when the time comes.

 

[neroden]

The bag-dorm definitely has a shower; look at the window pattern carefully. There's one of those "high only" windows. Frankly, the OBS probably use the shower more than the customers do.

As for "paint" schemes, these are all vinyl appliques now. It's relatively cheap to change them and as a result I would expect a fair amount of churn.

Personally I vote for the word "Amtrak" in large logotype, the car number, the type (sleeper/diner/etc), and bare stainless steel the rest of the way. But then I do tend to go for "form follows function".

 

[Ryan]

What I don't get is why they would just repaint the single level trains. The Superliner trains will have the new baggage cars and they're long distance so it would make sense to restripe them as well. We'll just have to see when the time comes.

Because the VL1s are going in for refurb as soon as they can, so this will just be a part of that.
There aren't enough Superliners to go around as it is, shopping them for just a new exterior wouldn't be very smart.

 

[neroden]

...also, I think some of the Superliners (and possibly some Amfleets?) still have paint on them.

It may be easy to take a car in for a vinyl wrap, but if you have to take the old paint off first, that's a *project*.

...(on edit)...

It looks like Amtrak's current vinyl decalling and removal machinery was well in place in 2004, judging by a comment by "rickycourtney" from 2013 on another website:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3218538

It appears that there are very few cars left with actual paint. So it might really be quite an easy job to restripe all the Superliners and Amfleets and Viewliner Is. But I suspect Amtrak will not do that until the new cars come into service; at the moment "phase IIIb" is not in use on any active equipment, so why rush it?

 

[Thomas McGowan]

What I don't get is why they would just repaint the single level trains. The Superliner trains will have the new baggage cars and they're long distance so it would make sense to restripe them as well. We'll just have to see when the time comes.

Because the VL1s are going in for refurb as soon as they can, so this will just be a part of that.
There aren't enough Superliners to go around as it is, shopping them for just a new exterior wouldn't be very smart.

I understand that and I'm not saying they'll rush it. I mean it took 9 years to restripe all of the Superliners from IV to IVb (39043 being the last), so I'm saying if they go in for an overhaul, they can restripe them then but of course restriping just for the heck of it would be stupid.

 

[NE933]

Dear Jesus Christ, me, my circle of folks, and the world, are on fire. We burn with war, sickness, and hunger. And while trains by themselves can not resolve all our hardships, it seems people are happier when they get to where they are going. Many of our own vacations and work duties would've bee in jeopardy without them. I hope and pray for the new railcars and locomotives to serve their callings well, and we celebrate their potential to bring widespread benefits. And therefore, I pray for malfunctioning leaders to rise up and provide more of them, and for the mechanical tests to reveal encouraging outcomes. For these reasons we clang glasses of the nectars of hope and imagination which symbolize a common humanity.

 

[William W.]

...oh lord, here we go...

 

[VentureForth]

The principle problem that I have noticed with changing livery (and let us, please use that term rather than "paint") is the fact that rather than "paint", most livery schemes are vinyl stickers.

When Amtrak gets sick of one livery, they peel the stickers and put on new ones. But they don't do their best to clean where they've peeled - or maybe they do, and the stainless steel is brighter behind the residue. Regardless, when you see remnants of a previous livery, it completely destroys the aesthetics of the new one that has replaced it.

I would argue that the US is one of the last countries where their major long distance trains are still "rainbow". Not quite like the rainbow days of the 70's, but mismatched heights, paint, cross section shape, etc., are all a true shame to an otherwise fairly cool rail system.

Perhaps the only consist/livery in the Amtrak system that doesn't look "odd" in my own humble opinion is the completely unmodifiable Acela. But it's a waste of platform space with its two locos serving a mere 6 coaches.

1. All Superliner, Pac Surf, Talgos are pretty consistent most of the time. However, the P42 or F59PHI that hauls them are not the same height or paint scheme as the coaches. Worse when a green loco is set up with the "swoop" baggage car on the Talgos. The baggage car on the Superliner sets disrupt the flow between the loco and the Superliners. Medium height loco, single level baggage, two level superliner... Ick.

2. The NERs look pretty consistent. The locos are a bit tall for the rest of the consist. I still prefer weight distributed DMU/EMU's, but I know we can't expect that so long as we have to have these trains jump from diesel to electric systems.

3. The worst have got to be the ones we're talking about most in this thread - the Single Level sleeper trains. The Viewliners are almost the same height as the P42s. If there were ONLY Viewliners in a consist, and the livery was good, it would look fantastic. But I don't think there is any plan to replace the coaches with Viewliner shells - who needs 12' ceilings in coach?

 

[tricia]

Dear Jesus Christ, me, my circle of folks, and the world, are on fire. We burn with war, sickness, and hunger. And while trains by themselves can not resolve all our hardships, it seems people are happier when they get to where they are going. Many of our own vacations and work duties would've bee in jeopardy without them. I hope and pray for the new railcars and locomotives to serve their callings well, and we celebrate their potential to bring widespread benefits. And therefore, I pray for malfunctioning leaders to rise up and provide more of them, and for the mechanical tests to reveal encouraging outcomes. For these reasons we clang glasses of the nectars of hope and imagination which symbolize a common humanity.

 

[Blackwolf]

Just noticed this when watching one of the YouTube videos again.

The new diners have their stove hood exhaust vents on the side of the car, not the roof. That's a shift from every diner I've ever seen, which has the exhaust up top. I suppose its because Amtrak has the stove/ovens/cooking equipment on the outside wall of the kitchen instead of the traditional location of against the inside wall for the passageway.

Hopefully the vents don't become an eyesore with kitchen grease buildup. On the other hand, walking past a VLII diner at a station platform has the treat of smelling what's cooking inside. Amtrak better make sure it smells good!