Viewliner II (sleepers)

[Pullman]

Is there any word on when we can expect the new Viewliner sleepers to be put into service? What is the name of the company building them?

 

[johnny.menhennet]

From what I've heard elsewhere on this site, the first Viewliner II car should roll off the line at the very end of this year.

 

[eagle628]

The builder is CAF, a Spanish company which builds railcars in Elmira, New York, if I remember correctly.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

That sounds right. It is CAF.

 

[afigg]

Is there any word on when we can expect the new Viewliner sleepers to be put into service? What is the name of the company building them?

The stated delivery date in the Amtrak news releases and reports for the first Viewliner II car, a diner, for testing is October, 2012. This is the goal, but the date could very easily slip. If the delivery stays on schedule, the first car or cars will have to undergo extensive testing. Don't expect to see any new cars in revenue service until sometime in 2013. There has been no public statements on the projected delivery schedule or sequence of car types, only that the first new car is to be a diner. Could be all diners and baggage-dorms first. Or not.

 

[Acela150]

Is there any word on when we can expect the new Viewliner sleepers to be put into service? What is the name of the company building them?

The stated delivery date in the Amtrak news releases and reports for the first Viewliner II car, a diner, for testing is October, 2012. This is the goal, but the date could very easily slip. If the delivery stays on schedule, the first car or cars will have to undergo extensive testing. Don't expect to see any new cars in revenue service until sometime in 2013. There has been no public statements on the projected delivery schedule or sequence of car types, only that the first new car is to be a diner. Could be all diners and baggage-dorms first. Or not.

I'm going to go on a wing it here and say that Amtrak will want one of each to start with for testing purposes and then move on from there. So I'm going to GUESS the first delivery order will be Diner, Baggage, Bag/Dorm, Sleeper. If this happens I'll actually get a chuckle out of this. :giggle:

I think as far as Public service were looking mid to late summer of 2013. Yet again a guess.

Steve

 

[AlanB]

Is there any word on when we can expect the new Viewliner sleepers to be put into service? What is the name of the company building them?

The stated delivery date in the Amtrak news releases and reports for the first Viewliner II car, a diner, for testing is October, 2012. This is the goal, but the date could very easily slip. If the delivery stays on schedule, the first car or cars will have to undergo extensive testing. Don't expect to see any new cars in revenue service until sometime in 2013. There has been no public statements on the projected delivery schedule or sequence of car types, only that the first new car is to be a diner. Could be all diners and baggage-dorms first. Or not.

I'm going to go on a wing it here and say that Amtrak will want one of each to start with for testing purposes and then move on from there. So I'm going to GUESS the first delivery order will be Diner, Baggage, Bag/Dorm, Sleeper. If this happens I'll actually get a chuckle out of this. :giggle:

I think as far as Public service were looking mid to late summer of 2013. Yet again a guess.

Steve

Amtrak might want that, but I'm not sure if they'll get that. A lot will depend on their contract with CAF. But it wouldn't surprise me to see all diners come off the line first, followed by all of another car. The reason for this being the the diners have special, mid-car doors for emergency evacuation and loading. Don't want to keep changing the line to make the cutouts for those doors. Same with the special loading doors for the baggage cars.

So again, I suspect that we'll see the cars arrive by type, before they move onto the next type.

 

[trainviews]

I'm going to go on a wing it here and say that Amtrak will want one of each to start with for testing purposes and then move on from there. So I'm going to GUESS the first delivery order will be Diner, Baggage, Bag/Dorm, Sleeper. If this happens I'll actually get a chuckle out of this. :giggle:

I think as far as Public service were looking mid to late summer of 2013. Yet again a guess.

Steve

Amtrak might want that, but I'm not sure if they'll get that. A lot will depend on their contract with CAF. But it wouldn't surprise me to see all diners come off the line first, followed by all of another car. The reason for this being the the diners have special, mid-car doors for emergency evacuation and loading. Don't want to keep changing the line to make the cutouts for those doors. Same with the special loading doors for the baggage cars.

So again, I suspect that we'll see the cars arrive by type, before they move onto the next type.

That sounds plausible. If they set up one production line all the cars of one type will come first. If they set up two we will see two types first, then switching to other types.

 

[Trogdor]

While there will certainly be different specific parts required for each type, I can't see that being a showstopper for mixing types on the same line.

Airplane manufacturers can build different variants of the same type of plane (different fuselage lengths, different door configurations, different engine types, etc.) on the same production line, one after the other. I believe transit bus manufacturers do the same thing with the different sub-types of buses (30-foot, 40-foot, 60-foot, etc.). No reason a railcar manufacturer couldn't set up their line the same way. If the basic structural frame of the car is the same (I don't know that it is, but it could be), cutting out spots for different window and door configurations could be done in-line, or off to the side on a secondary line.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

How would be it easier and cheaper, to mix the types, rather than make all of the same type in the same run?

 

[afigg]

Amtrak might want that, but I'm not sure if they'll get that. A lot will depend on their contract with CAF. But it wouldn't surprise me to see all diners come off the line first, followed by all of another car. The reason for this being the the diners have special, mid-car doors for emergency evacuation and loading. Don't want to keep changing the line to make the cutouts for those doors. Same with the special loading doors for the baggage cars.

So again, I suspect that we'll see the cars arrive by type, before they move onto the next type.

Wouldn't the emergency doors on the diner car go where the plug is for sliding in the module components? The diner car just gets a special plug frame with an emergency door in it. Same goes for the baggage cars, the baggage doors - at least one of them - goes where the plug is.

But without even publicity drawings for the different configurations of the new CAF cars, we are guessing as to what exactly they will look like and specific aspects of the layout design.

As to the delivery order, we don't know if Amtrak will want to get one of each type early on to check the design and layout, if CAF can do that. I think most here would agree that the likely priority on deliveries would be diner and baggage-dorm cars, then sleepers, then baggage cars. The baggage-dorm cars will free up sleeper revenue space and address the short term problems of keeping enough baggage cars running.

 

[AlanB]

Wouldn't the emergency doors on the diner car go where the plug is for sliding in the module components? The diner car just gets a special plug frame with an emergency door in it. Same goes for the baggage cars, the baggage doors - at least one of them - goes where the plug is.

Yes, on the side where the corridor is, the E-door will be in the plug for module access. But on the kitchen side there is no plug, so they will have to cut out the frame for the door. As for the baggage cars, I'm not sure how that will work. But for the baggage/dorms, the loading doors for the luggage will be far from the plug, and again it's only on one side.

As to the delivery order, we don't know if Amtrak will want to get one of each type early on to check the design and layout, if CAF can do that. I think most here would agree that the likely priority on deliveries would be diner and baggage-dorm cars, then sleepers, then baggage cars. The baggage-dorm cars will free up sleeper revenue space and address the short term problems of keeping enough baggage cars running.

I tend to agree with your delivery order, but do keep in mind that 8400 was brought back to life to serve as the test bed for the diner. So really the only unknowns are the baggage cars and the baggage/dorm cars. And frankly the baggage cars don't really require much "checking of the layout." It also wouldn't surprise me, again assuming that Amtrak has any say in things, to find that the sleepers are the last off the line. Amtrak needs to retire the baggage cars more urgently than it needs new sleepers. And the sleepers are the hardest to produce, with lots more electrical work & plumbing work, not to mention many more modules to slid in and more cumbersome modules at that.

 

[NE933]

Can't CAF's large factory spaces allow for two production lines, so that more than one type of V-II car can be tested simultaneously and so quicker to get them in business?

 

[AlanB]

Can't CAF's large factory spaces allow for two production lines, so that more than one type of V-II car can be tested simultaneously and so quicker to get them in business?

I honestly have no idea about CAF's factory or their ability to turn out rail cars.

That said, even if they do have two or more production lines, the other lines could well be busy working on orders for other customers. Or, CAF could have decided that they'd rather employ 30 people for 2 years as opposed to 40 for 1 year. Note those are totally fictional numbers, I really have no idea, but you get the point. That being that they're trying to provide longer term employment for their key employees.

And Amtrak is probably not in much of a position to argue for faster production, since they were looking for low bids.

 

[Shanghai]

"Elmira Heights rail car maker CAF USA has landed a $298 million contract to build 130 single-level rail cars for Amtrak, as part of Amtrak's long-term fleet renewal plan. The five-year deal, which will mean the creation of 575 jobs at the Elmira Heights location, calls for CAF to perform all manufacturing and final assembly at the local facility. CAF will manufacture the stainless steel car shells and handle the final assembly of the cars, with the first scheduled to roll off the assembly line in October 2012".

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

..., with the first scheduled to roll off the assembly line in October 2012".

As pointed out, I don't think that the very first rolling off the assembly line is quite the same as seeing them going into service.

 

[jis]

..., with the first scheduled to roll off the assembly line in October 2012".

As pointed out, I don't think that the very first rolling off the assembly line is quite the same as seeing them going into service.

It will be at least three to four months after that before they go into service. Afterall they have to run the gauntlet of AAR testing at Pueblo and Amtrak testing wherever they choose before any goes into service.

 

[AlanB]

..., with the first scheduled to roll off the assembly line in October 2012".

As pointed out, I don't think that the very first rolling off the assembly line is quite the same as seeing them going into service.

It will be at least three to four months after that before they go into service. Afterall they have to run the gauntlet of AAR testing at Pueblo and Amtrak testing wherever they choose before any goes into service.

And then if they send the car to Sunnyside to be put into actual use it'll take another month or two before it rolls. Or at least it'll take management showing up there to get it on the road. That's what was needed to get the 8400 out on the road; management. Very high level management!

Although to be fair it didn't take months, but the car did sit in Sunnyside longer than it should have, despite orders to get it on the road. So that very high level manager showed up one day to ensure that they put the car into service, he actually rode the train NYP to Albany on its maiden voyage and had dinner in the car.

And as dumb luck would have it, the reservation that I had booked 8 months earlier to get us out to Seattle for the Gathering nicely coincided with that first run.

 

[afigg]

For what's it worth, the V2 Fleet Strategy Plan has a Attachment 1 table with projected equipment acquisitions by fiscal years. For the new single level equipment column it has 47 cars in FY13, 77 cars in FY14, and then the placeholder 65 cars in FY15 (which is repeated through FY30). Since the FY13 and FY14 entries have to be the CAF Viewliner IIs, that indicates that the contract is for CAF to deliver 124 cars (47 + 77) from Oct. 2012 through Sept. 2014 with the last 6 after the start of FY15 in October, 2014. So the plan is for CAF to ramp up to 77 cars in 1 year which works out to 6.5 per month.

So if Amtrak were to place a follow-on contract for Amfleet II replacements with CAF to insure a steady flow of new equipment, the Viewliner II LD coach cars could possibly start being delivered in the fall of 2014 once the current 130 car build is done. Which is consistent with the starting date of FY2015 for the Amfleet II retirements.

Version 3 of the Fleet Strategy Plan will be an interesting read when it gets released.

 

[sechs]

I tend to agree with your delivery order, but do keep in mind that 8400 was brought back to life to serve as the test bed for the diner. So really the only unknowns are the baggage cars and the baggage/dorm cars. And frankly the baggage cars don't really require much "checking of the layout." It also wouldn't surprise me, again assuming that Amtrak has any say in things, to find that the sleepers are the last off the line. Amtrak needs to retire the baggage cars more urgently than it needs new sleepers. And the sleepers are the hardest to produce, with lots more electrical work & plumbing work, not to mention many more modules to slid in and more cumbersome modules at that.

I think that it would make a lot of sense to do the bag/dorms before the revenue sleepers, to work out some of the bugs.

 

[Donctor]

So really the only unknowns are the baggage cars and the baggage/dorm cars. And frankly the baggage cars don't really require much "checking of the layout."

What could CAF do that needed correction? "No, this rack isn't supposed to be blocking the door..."

 

[AlanB]

So really the only unknowns are the baggage cars and the baggage/dorm cars. And frankly the baggage cars don't really require much "checking of the layout."

What could CAF do that needed correction? "No, this rack isn't supposed to be blocking the door..."

I've never heard if CAF or some other company is building the modules for the Viewliners. I know that CAF is of course doing the shells, trucks, etc. But I don't know who is building the modules that slid into the cars. Every room is a module, each luggage shelving unit is a module. They slid them in and bolt them down in the correct place. So the "checking" would be to make sure that all the modules are actually the correct size and that they will fit within the body of the car.

Yes, in theory engineering should take care of this issue by checking and double checking the measurements of everything. But then that's what NY's MTA thought too when they redid the tracks on the #1 line at South Ferry after 9/11. Yet when the first train pulled into the South Ferry station after the tunnel was rebuilt through the bathtub and service was restored, it scrapped the roof of the tunnel because somehow, someway, someone had screwed up the measurements. So they had to remove all the track, drill out all the new concrete roadbed, and start all over again.