What if sleeper passengers had the option of meals?

[Blackwolf]

So Amtrak labor cost is higher than the seasonal Alaska trains, and the part time Rocky Mts train. Downeaster numbers are with out the total cost of taxes and benefits.

So this report means nothing.

Right?

Bingo. Quote the hourly rate AS IS PAID to the employee in their gross paycheck.

If you divide out the cost of benefits and retirement, then you are doing a dis-service because every pay period is different than the last (example: last Thursday the California Zephyr arrived on-time into Chicago, but did the same hold true for the rest of this month?) Benefits traditionally, and for good reason, were never included in hourly pay. They are factored in as a "benefit" because they should not be considered on the same level playing field as salary. Only in this INSANE recent period of time when people have lost their minds when it comes to money/pointing fingers at their neighbor/everything with Public Sector connections are considered EVIL have certain groups begun to improperly mash the two into one disconnected number.

 

[buddy559]

I just wanted to point something out. A good friend of mine, who is a multi engine pilot, for a regional airline was hired for 19$ per hour. She works 14 hour days, and is paid about 5.5 hours for her day. She paid $ for her first few hundred hours, to get her experience, flew traffic watch in the bay area for 2 years, (at 8 dollars an hour) flight instruction, 2 years of prop plane cargo, (at 11 dollars an hour) just to land this job. I am a flight attendant, who is licensed by the FAA, with the same restrictions as a commercial pilot. I have over 15 years experience as a flight attendant, and my last paid job was 18.50 per hour, at my last seniority pay scale. We work 4 day trips per week, with 3 days home (about 75 hours) per week, and get paid for 80-85 hours per MONTH, as do the pilots. I worked for a major airline for 8 years, and when I left that airline, at 8-9 year pay scale I was earning 23 dollars an hour, for an 80 hour month.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I just wanted to point something out.

So what's your point? That airlines, like most large corporations with stockholders, maximize profits by squeezing their workforce?

Amtrak, by virtue of having it's stock owned by Congress, has a different problem… all of their employees work at the good graces of the government. "Government" and "good graces" should never appear tin the same sentence without the phrase "has no" in-between.

 

[buddy559]

My point, while not trying to ruffle feathers, is that this is what transportation employees receive for compensation in the private sector. It just causes an irritation after spending the last 15 years of my life working for a wage, to hear people, in a similar industry, with similar work rules, and similar work schedules, (4 away from home, 3 at home per week) presenting themselves as exploited and underpaid, for being paid close to 50K per year. At a major airline I would have never seen 50K in my lifetime. I made after 8 years of service, 27,000 dollars, with all my overtime and picking up tips on my days off, ending up being gone 20 days a month, and only home for 10 days a month. (and with or without unions, I have done both, we were always held, to the standard of "railroad and transportation employees, that is what was fed to us in the lobby of a hotel after an 18 hour day, with 6 hours of pay, when we were facing a reduced 8 hour rest period.

Edit, this was not meant as a counter to your point, just an agreement.

 

[Bob Dylan]

What a Crummy Job "Flight Attendant" is! Looks like your Union(s) werent as Competent or Professional as the Amtrak ones! (or else did Sweetheart deals with Management! :angry: ) Unfortunately Airline Jobs were considered "Glamorous" Back in the Day and People were Lining Up to take these Jobs No Matter What the Pay or the Working Conditions!

This is a Perfect Example of Why Bashing Workers and Unions by Politicians and the Greedy Rich is now Considered OK by a Majority of the Sheep, er People who Dont know any better or are Rich @ the Expense of the People Who Actually Do the Work that makes them Wealthy! As the Old Saying goes: "It Could Happen to You! Wake up!" :help:

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

My point, while not trying to ruffle feathers, is that this is what transportation employees receive for compensation in the private sector.

Amtrak is a private corporation, it's employees are not government employees. The only difference between Delta and Amtrak is that Delta's stock is owned by is major private investors, Amtrak stock is owned by Congress. Amtrak is no more a public sector company than AIG was when Congress bought out their stock during their bail out.

If your point is that you're underpaid, perhaps you should consider a career with Amtrak. Plenty of their attendants are former flight attendants, particularly the ones who "weigh out" by becoming too heavy to fly.

 

[PRR 60]

My point, while not trying to ruffle feathers, is that this is what transportation employees receive for compensation in the private sector.

Amtrak is a private corporation, it's employees are not government employees. The only difference between Delta and Amtrak is that Delta's stock is owned by is major private investors, Amtrak stock is owned by Congress. Amtrak is no more a public sector company than AIG was when Congress bought out their stock during their bail out.

If your point is that you're underpaid, perhaps you should consider a career with Amtrak. Plenty of their attendants are former flight attendants, particularly the ones who "weigh out" by becoming too heavy to fly.

Amtrak is "owned" by US DOT, not Congress. Also, Amtrak is legally a "Designated Federal Entity", which differentiates it from a normal corporation. Amtrak is also subject to the Federal Freedom of Information Act, which obviously, Delta Air Lines and other corporations are not. While technically Amtrak is not a federal agency, it is much more like a federal agency than it is a private corporation.

 

[buddy559]

My point, while not trying to ruffle feathers, is that this is what transportation employees receive for compensation in the private sector.

Amtrak is a private corporation, it's employees are not government employees. The only difference between Delta and Amtrak is that Delta's stock is owned by is major private investors, Amtrak stock is owned by Congress. Amtrak is no more a public sector company than AIG was when Congress bought out their stock during their bail out.

If your point is that you're underpaid, perhaps you should consider a career with Amtrak. Plenty of their attendants are former flight attendants, particularly the ones who "weigh out" by becoming too heavy to fly.

"Weigh out" That is so hilarious I just can't! weigh ins for inflight has been gone since the 70's, and a laughable example to use for a workers compensation. Please can we not go back to the slave pet topic, my dog is about to go union! In addition, those who live in glass houses.... well... back to the diner car discussion for me!

 

[SarahZ]

They may not have to weigh-in, but I did not apply to be a flight attendant on a couple of airlines several years ago because they clearly stated height/weight requirements during the application process and advised uniforms were not made above a certain size.

I've talked to several Amtrak employees who used to be flight attendants and quit for various reasons. I don't think ALC was trying to insult you or imply you were too heavy. I read it as just one example of why former FAs now work as Amtrak attendants.

 

[buddy559]

Not at all, and that is not true. Every airline requires, "weight in proportion to height" No airline can legally list stated weights and heights, I have been flying since 1996 and I have never set foot on a scale. At my heaviest I was 240 and 5'6" with a 44 inch waist. I was with a non union airline at the time, and never had a question raised about my weight or size, and have 3 commendation letters for uniform appearance. Delta airlines has the "red dress" which was only available to a size 18. After the merger with northwest it is now available up to a size 24.

And I just wanted to add, I don't feel insulted by anyone, (thank you Sarah for your concern, you are such a nice gal, I could not take offence to anything you say) This is simply an internet chat board, I do not mean to offend, just enjoy learning about Amtrak, and throwing up an opposing opinion here and there.

You are too sweet! (awwe) and I am sure if you could pull my anxiety ridden butt out of my sleeper we could probably have a good time in the diner.

 

[SarahZ]

Right, and when I tried to apply, it said "height/weight proportionate" and "uniforms not issued above size 18". Those are pretty clear guidelines.

I did state this was several years ago, so it would have been long before the Delta/NWA merger. Besides that, I was not applying to Delta. I had checked out a few airlines, some of which are long gone now, and they all had similar statements.

Again, nobody is saying you are too heavy. ALC simply listed it as an example of why some FAs end up working for Amtrak. Please don't take that personally. I sincerely doubt it was meant that way.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Sarah's right, I wasn't talking about you.

I know three flight attendants who can't fly any more because of their weight. One worked for AirTran, two for Southwest. The one in AirTran was moved to the boarding gates and never flew again. The two from Southwest now work for Amtrak.

You're the first attendant I met who hasn't accused the major airlines of weight discrimination for flight attendants. The culture of discrimination exists even if there are no more mandated weigh-ins.

As I recall, you were the one who brought up flight attendant pay. Don't change the topic and then complain that we should be back on topic.

 

[buddy559]

Sarah's right, I wasn't talking about you.

I know three flight attendants who can't fly any more because of their weight. One worked for AirTran, two for Southwest. The one in AirTran was moved to the boarding gates and never flew again. The two from Southwest now work for Amtrak.

You're the first attendant I met who hasn't accused the major airlines of weight discrimination for flight attendants. The culture of discrimination exists even if there are no more mandated weigh-ins.

As I recall, you were the one who brought up flight attendant pay. Don't change the topic and then complain that we should be back on topic.

Not chumming the waters here, but this is so foreign to me I am not sure how to respond. I have worked for 3 airlines, 2 union, and one non union. I started at 21 years of age, and worked until 2 years ago. My weight goes up and down by 40 lbs every year, (more if i get extra christmas candy) and i never had a blink from anyone in regards to that. I was written up because the bottom cuffs of my pants were getting eaten up from sidewalk salt, and for non compliant luggage, but never ever, had a word breathed withing my hearing about my weight. Also when I was hired at my 2nd airline after a bankruptcy, and was stressed and fatter than ever.

Also, I am pretty thick skinned, I very much appreciate the courtesy, but do not take things here personally. Don't let my crusty exterior, prevent you from getting to know me. You have all been more than kind to share the wisdom, and as i embark on my next adventure, I will thank you all for your information, and banter!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

In the words of the aforementioned AirTran attendant; "Hun, they would never hire you (meaning my 300 pound self) to be in one of their airplanes, hell they don't even want you paying to be on board one of their planes"

 

[buddy559]

In the words of the aforementioned AirTran attendant; "Hun, they would never hire you (meaning my 300 pound self) to be in one of their airplanes, hell they don't even want you paying to be on board one of their planes"

My high school guidance counselor gave me the same speech. "Sweetie you are just not attractive enough, and a little to large to have this job, why don't you try something more realistic for your, uh, something your more physically suited to...

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

In the words of the aforementioned AirTran attendant; "Hun, they would never hire you (meaning my 300 pound self) to be in one of their airplanes, hell they don't even want you paying to be on board one of their planes"

My high school guidance counselor gave me the same speech. "Sweetie you are just not attractive enough, and a little to large to have this job, why don't you try something more realistic for your, uh, something your more physically suited to...

I wasn't inquiring about a job, I hate flying lol… hence why I am on this message board. I was just striking up a conversation at dinner.

 

[Bob Dylan]

This Months Nominee for the AU Thread that Got the Farthest Off Topic! (with a Little Help from All of Us! ^_^ )

 

[Tumbleweed]

This Months Nominee for the AU Thread that Got the Farthest Off Topic! (with a Little Help from All of Us! ^_^ )

:giggle:

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

This Months Nominee for the AU Thread that Got the Farthest Off Topic! (with a Little Help from All of Us! ^_^ )

Are you sure it isn't the one about rude passengers that became slavery and pets?

 

[oldtimer]

I don't view it as off topic as I worked 4 years as a federally certified Airframe and Powerplant mechanic. The late 60's and early 70's were boom and bust years for aviation. I also worked for 3 different airlines and part-time for another shop. After the third layoff I went to work as a railroad electrician, my starting wage was $3.125 an hour the 0.005 as a skill differential. At the same time I was working part-time at a shop at the airport for 19.50 /hour. Great pay but not steady work,and the railroad could fire me for having another job, even if it didn't interfere with my railroad job.

I did give up my part-time job when after a year on the PC as I took a much more lucrative management position with Amtrak almost 41 years ago. In my management position I couldn't take the lack of insight by some of my superiors and went back to the tools. Now the OBS wages cited are not much more than an electrician on the railroad makes. The electrician must go through a 3 year apprenticeship, and obtain other certifications from the EPA and Amtrak. Most of these positions no get little if any overtime. The workload has increased in addition to an approximately 30% reduction of forces. In 1981 Amtrak mechanical employees took a 12.5% give back that was not made up until 1996. I know we can't talk politics but think about those dates, also think about the workload of the current mechanical employees the next time a reading light is out in your sleeper.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

n 1981 Amtrak mechanical employees took a 12.5% give back that was not made up until 1996

I didn't understand this, would you explain what you mean please?

 

[AlanB]

My point, while not trying to ruffle feathers, is that this is what transportation employees receive for compensation in the private sector.

Amtrak is a private corporation, it's employees are not government employees. The only difference between Delta and Amtrak is that Delta's stock is owned by is major private investors, Amtrak stock is owned by Congress. Amtrak is no more a public sector company than AIG was when Congress bought out their stock during their bail out.

If your point is that you're underpaid, perhaps you should consider a career with Amtrak. Plenty of their attendants are former flight attendants, particularly the ones who "weigh out" by becoming too heavy to fly.

Amtrak is "owned" by US DOT, not Congress. Also, Amtrak is legally a "Designated Federal Entity", which differentiates it from a normal corporation. Amtrak is also subject to the Federal Freedom of Information Act, which obviously, Delta Air Lines and other corporations are not. While technically Amtrak is not a federal agency, it is much more like a federal agency than it is a private corporation.

As I understand things, the US DOT holds the Preferred Stock (the stock with voting rights) in trust for Congress and We The People. But the DOT doesn't own Amtrak.

 

[rrdude]

May I remind everyone that the meals were included with First Class tickets to save the Dining Cars. You can rest assured that if that changes, the Dining Cars will be gone within a couple of years. So be careful what you wish for. They will most likely get converted to Buffet/Cafe/Lounge service with no sit down meal service, with perhaps two (if we are lucky) SAs providing convection oven heated fare at best. They will resemble the service provided on the LSL Boston Section except there will be no at table service, if they continue to exist at all. That is what was considered as the other alternative when the last time Dining Car Service was facing extinction. So we've been there and done that once. Maybe this time the result will be different and worse than the last time.

Thank you for pointing that out JIS.

 

[rrdude]

btw, as many of you no doubt have figged out from my past postings, I absolutely LOVE the posts that go off topic, and generate real life examples of different situations. Love 'em, Love 'em. Love 'em.

 

[Swimmingcat]

It sure did go 'off topic' but it's been interesting reading nonetheless, & I've learned a few things as well!