Who is URPA?

[SCrails]

Can anyone share the background of this organization? From the name, I thought it would be an organization of rail passengers, similar to NARP. But their web site says it is not a membership organization and no outside funds can be donated. Is it more of a "think tank"? What have been some of URPA's major accomplishments and activities?

Just call me curious.

 

[Trogdor]

Accomplishments: none.

Activities: Publishing a "newsletter" with childish insults towards anyone whose political views differ from their own, and writing fancy reports claiming Amtrak is cooking the books, but without citing any creditable sources to back up their claims.

There's a thread pinned to the top of this page where you can read some of the stuff that they write.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Accomplishments: none.
Activities: Publishing a "newsletter" with childish insults towards anyone whose political views differ from their own, and writing fancy reports claiming Amtrak is cooking the books, but without citing any creditable sources to back up their claims.

There's a thread pinned to the top of this page where you can read some of the stuff that they write.

Why not say exactly what you think? :lol: I read most of their drivel for entertainment, everyone is entitled to their opinion but most of the posters they cite are stuffed shirts, my way or the highway types and just plain anti-everything! I do appreciate our members that post it but I'm not going to suscribe or try to answer those no nothings and self appointed guardians of our trains! Instead of telling us what Amtrak is doing right (lots all things considered!) they want to whine about why ole #8 doesnt make the milk run to Nowhereville like it did in 1938!

 

[Heading North]

The newsletters can be extremely negative, and the tone generally turns me off from reading them.

I do think they sometimes show some good creativity, like ways to extend LD trains to serve additional markets without needing much (or any) extra equipment. At the same time, equipment demands, and especially on-time performance, make it hard to really implement these ideas.

 

[RailFanLNK]

A railfan of mine always forwards me thier newsletter(s) and I read about two sentences of crap and quit. Sorry but its SO negative that it almost makes me puke! :lol:

 

[transit54]

As others have mentioned, they strike a very negative tone towards Amtrak most of the time. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that in and of itself doesn't turn me off to them.

But they really push the idea that Amtrak can be self-sustaining fiscally if only they made some management/operational changes. Honestly, anyone who perpetuates that myth doesn't understand the first thing about passenger rail or public transit. There is not a shred of evidence from any corner of the world that indicates that passenger rail can be operationally profitable without massive capital investment on the scale of the interstate highway system. And even then, it basically covers it's costs with profitable routes cross-subsudizing less profitable feeder routes.

They are also pretty political. I'd have a bit more respect for them if they stayed out of the political fray, or at least simply provided information (like NARP does) on various candidates on rail issues. But I recall a year or two they wrote a whole piece on why John McCain's history of opposing Amtrak isn't really relevant if you're considering him as a candidate. The argument was along the lines of 'plenty of previous other presidential administrations have been opposed to Amtrak, and it still exists, so don't worry about McCain's Amtrak views when considering him as a candidate.'

I'm not advocating making Amtrak one's top voting issue, but I think a pro-rail organization (which URPA claims to be) shouldn't be effectively endorsing candidates who have an absolutely awful record on passenger rail issues. By saying that McCain's Amtrak record is irrelevant, they're effectively saying that there are other good reasons to vote for McCain - and while they're certainly were, depending on your political orientation, it's not the purpose a rail group to push a candidate based on values that have nothing to do with rail (I hope I'm making my point clearly). I didn't sign up to get their newsletters to receive a political commentary unrelated to transportation.

 

[SCrails]

...I do think they sometimes show some good creativity, like ways to extend LD trains to serve additional markets...

Heading North, this idea of extending LD trains was what caught my eye while reading a few of the past URPA posts. I live in Columbia, SC, a city I think would benefit tremendously from having daytime service. Extending the Carolinian about 100 miles from Charlotte would accomplish this, but I've never even seen the idea mentioned elsewhere. Sure, there would be huge hurdles, like the fact that no passenger trains currently operate on that route. But Columbia managed to generate 37,000 passengers last year, considering that the two daily trains depart in the wee hours of the morning (approximately 2:00 and 4:00 a.m.).

Overall, the URPA writings I've read didn't seem to be making friends from any direction. Interesting opinions, nonetheless.

 

[3rdcook]

Accomplishments: none.
Activities: Publishing a "newsletter" with childish insults towards anyone whose political views differ from their own, and writing fancy reports claiming Amtrak is cooking the books, but without citing any creditable sources to back up their claims.

There's a thread pinned to the top of this page where you can read some of the stuff that they write.

Why not say exactly what you think? :lol: I read most of their drivel for entertainment, everyone is entitled to their opinion but most of the posters they cite are stuffed shirts, my way or the highway types and just plain anti-everything! I do appreciate our members that post it but I'm not going to suscribe or try to answer those no nothings and self appointed guardians of our trains! Instead of telling us what Amtrak is doing right (lots all things considered!) they want to whine about why ole #8 doesnt make the milk run to Nowhereville like it did in 1938!

URPA is actually a very big advocate of long distance trains . That is not drivel to me .

The fact is that they ARE critics of some of Amtrak's cost accounting and Amtrak's obvious bias towards state sponsored short haul trains and the NEC . All they are asking is for that there to be an honest accounting of expenses and a more enlightened management .They do a very credible job pointing out that Amtrak should be using , among other things, better management tools such as Load Factor (total seat miles divided by revenue passenger miles ) as measure of efficiency . Hey , these people are on our side !!

Considering the lack of progress we 've seen in the last 40 years by Amtrak in expanding long distance trains , I think URPA is doing the right thing prodding them to expand and improve a very skeletal system .

Andrew Selden is also president of Minnesota Rail Passenger News . He very knowledgeable in the transit business .

 

[transit54]

URPA is actually a very big advocate of long distance trains . That is not drivel to me . The fact is that they ARE critics of some of Amtrak's cost accounting and Amtrak's obvious bias towards state sponsored short haul trains and the NEC . All they are asking is for that there to be an honest accounting of expenses and a more enlightened management .They do a very credible job pointing out that Amtrak should be using , among other things, better management tools such as Load Factor (total seat miles divided by revenue passenger miles ) as measure of efficiency . Hey , these people are on our side !!

Considering the lack of progress we 've seen in the last 40 years by Amtrak in expanding long distance trains , I think URPA is doing the right thing prodding them to expand and improve a very skeletal system .

Andrew Selden is also president of Minnesota Rail Passenger News . He very knowledgeable in the transit business .

How do you account for the fact that they continue to promote the idea that Amtrak could be fiscally self-sufficent? I think that is a very dangerous idea to tout, especially without having any citable support for it.

They're advocacy for increased LD is noble, but I think their other messages many times harm support for Amtrak more than they help it. I've seen URPA cited in some news articles with statements that are just blatantly wrong, mostly regarding funding issues.

If the believe both things - that Amtrak should be able to support itself and that LD trains should be expanded, why don't they give up rail advocacy and just get into the passenger rail business themselves?

 

[haolerider]

URPA is actually a very big advocate of long distance trains . That is not drivel to me . The fact is that they ARE critics of some of Amtrak's cost accounting and Amtrak's obvious bias towards state sponsored short haul trains and the NEC . All they are asking is for that there to be an honest accounting of expenses and a more enlightened management .They do a very credible job pointing out that Amtrak should be using , among other things, better management tools such as Load Factor (total seat miles divided by revenue passenger miles ) as measure of efficiency . Hey , these people are on our side !!

Considering the lack of progress we 've seen in the last 40 years by Amtrak in expanding long distance trains , I think URPA is doing the right thing prodding them to expand and improve a very skeletal system .

Andrew Selden is also president of Minnesota Rail Passenger News . He very knowledgeable in the transit business .

How do you account for the fact that they continue to promote the idea that Amtrak could be fiscally self-sufficent? I think that is a very dangerous idea to tout, especially without having any citable support for it.

They're advocacy for increased LD is noble, but I think their other messages many times harm support for Amtrak more than they help it. I've seen URPA cited in some news articles with statements that are just blatantly wrong, mostly regarding funding issues.

If the believe both things - that Amtrak should be able to support itself and that LD trains should be expanded, why don't they give up rail advocacy and just get into the passenger rail business themselves?

Bruce Richardson has a built-in bias against the management of Amtrak, based in some small measure on the fact that he once was hired by the Gulf Coast management to do some marketing and related studies. He sometimes hangs his hat on an idea to serve food 24 hours a day, which he claims to have initiated on the Sunset and he also claims it was a huge success. He is totally incorrect and it was a failure, especially a financial failure. Imagine paying for OBS on a 24 hour basis for the occasional passenger who gets on in the middle of the night and might like a snack. It didn't happen and it won't happen. Most of those passengers are more interested in getting into their rooms or into their seats and going to sleep. He was also rebuffed by some of the marketing group, who choose not to hire him for other marketing projects. His constant nagging and negative comments are bothersome to most people. His term "the dog ate my homework" has been used and over-used to the point of being almost comical. He likes to write and he likes to read his own material, so let him to just that, but I have yet to see a formal, logical and workable plan to improve Amtrak, that has been endorsed by anyone, with the exception of his cadre of "experts".

 

[jis]

Considering the lack of progress we 've seen in the last 40 years by Amtrak in expanding long distance trains , I think URPA is doing the right thing prodding them to expand and improve a very skeletal system .

I just find them so off the wall in most cases that I don't really take their rants too seriously, but they at times can be an entertaining read for sure. And god knows I myself am an ardent critic of Amtrak on many issues. I am not sure why anyone at Amtrak would treat them any differently or any more seriously.

The lack of progress in 40 years has been because that is apparently what the original agenda for creating Amtrak was. In fact there seemingly was an ardent hope that the whole thing would fold in a few years. It has confounded all by puttering along all these years. And now we are to believe that a little prodding from the random rants and rave from the likes of URPA will fix the original intent? Witness the evident fact that even in these more favorable times all that is being talked of about LD service by all the paymasters is essentially maintaining current LD service with possible additions if the states involved are willing to foot significant portion of the bill. All the HSR money is specifically for HSR corridors, not for LD.