Why different end-to-end travel time in opposite directions?

[Jacob Goes By Jack]

Hey all - I've always been curious, and just got reminded again when buying tickets for Thanksgiving travel: why are some of the long-distance trains scheduled appreciably faster (end to end) in one direction than the other?

The case I'm most familiar with is the Lake Shore Limited... 49 leaves New York at 3:40pm eastern and gets to Chicago at 9:45am central, which is 10:45am eastern so that's 19 hours 5 minutes. But 48 leaves Chicago at 9:30pm central which is 10:30pm eastern, and gets to New York at 6:23pm eastern so that's 19 hours 53 minutes. Where do those extra 48 minutes come from... is there more congestion heading eastbound than westbound? Something about which parts are traveled during the day and which at night? I can't imagine it's uphill vs. downhill since that route is so flat.

I recall it was or is also like this on the California Zephyr but that was a while ago, so maybe it is just the LSL.

If this is already on the forum somewhere, feel free to point me there... I googled a little and couldn't find it...

-Jack

 

[the_traveler]

It has a lot to do with padding. To make the arrival at the destination, they may "schedule" extra time to "arrive closer to on time at the final stop.

An example is on #3, the time between Fullerton and LA is "scheduled" for about 1 1/2 hours. It only takes about 30 minutes to travel between them. As you can guess, many times #3 is early into LA!

 

[Jacob Goes By Jack]

Yeah I know about padding... but why is there almost an hour *more* of padding in one direction than the other? That's what I don't get...

 

[looshi]

Could be different traffic flows and scheduled meets. For instance, the Cardinal has more padding going eastbound than westbound, because most of the freight traffic on the Buckingham Branch flows westbound.

 

[Jacob Goes By Jack]

OK, that makes sense... does most of the freight traffic along the LSL route also flow westbound?

 

[neroden]

First of all, you *have* corrected for the time zone change, right?

 

[railiner]

My guess is that trains are delayed more frequently departing Chicago, as a result of waiting for late connections, so they get some more padding in that direction to recover lateness....

 

[Anderson]

The LSL is held up at ALB, IIRC, to avoid rush hour on Metro-North. That's basically the whole hour: Avoiding running into MNRR trains south of Poughkeepsie (and remember, a train which leaves NYG at 1730 won't get all the way out there for over an hour).

 

[Jacob Goes By Jack]

@railiner: Yes, that also makes a lot of sense. ^^ Though, actually 48 has departed Chicago on time almost every time I've taken it, so I guess I'm lucky.

@Anderson: Also sounds reasonable - the schedule backs that up too, they budget 2h40m for 48 to get from Utica to Albany, but only 1h43m for 49 from Albany to Utica. (The officially scheduled length of stop in Albany is about 45m both ways.) Though the westbound also has a lot of padding coming into Erie and Chicago where the eastbound doesn't, so it's still complicated. Maybe I'll overanalyze this in a spreadsheet or something

@neroden: yes, I totally counted the time zone difference - I wrote it all out in gory detail for yall to see! see the original post, second paragraph...

 

[Thirdrail7]

The LSL is held up at ALB, IIRC, to avoid rush hour on Metro-North. That's basically the whole hour: Avoiding running into MNRR trains south of Poughkeepsie (and remember, a train which leaves NYG at 1730 won't get all the way out there for over an hour).

The eastbound LSL is completely scheduled to run in rush hour between ALB-NYP. If anything, it would leave EARLIER to avoid rush hour. As such, it has a longer schedule since it has to blend in. Metro-North is usually using 3 of its 4 tracks to push North from CP-12 to CRT.Unless something has changed, 48 trudges along the lone remaining track during rush hour, closing in on the Metro-North POU local, which runs semi-express from CRT-GCT If it is out of slot, it may follow the local our of CRT.

It it manages to operate on time on Metro-North, it needs to fit in NYP, which is also in the midst of rush hour. Given the length of 48, that means it has to operate on 6,7 or 8 track. There is scheduled hold time to allow these tracks to clear out.

 

[Anderson]

Hmmm...you're actually right, my memory was faulty. In the PIP for either the Cap or LSL (I forget which), there was discussion about shuffling times and mention that if they pulled the LSL back a bit it would run the risk of an out-of-slot arrival at NYP. It was NYP (where pushing it to the back of rush hour is important since, as you noted, the tracks need to be able to clear and potentially be free for a late arrival) that was at issue, not MNRR.