Why I will never ride Amtrak

[transit54]

How many posts here claim trains are many hours late?

Yes, but this is a broader issue outside of Amtrak's direct control. This has been acknowledged, but there are a lot of politics involved.

How many posts here claim refund vouchers were too inconvenient to be useable (and therefore worthless)?

This I'm not really familiar with as an issue. If this is the case (I'm not doubting it is, its just been a while since I've been active on here), Amtrak should do something like my airline recently did - integrate a mechanism to apply vouchers during the payment phase of an internet booking.

How many posts here complained about the "tough luck, buster" attitude with the Coast Starlight landslide?

Again, Amtrak's fault, especially their ineptitude to deal with certain customer services crises, has been acknowledged here. I really can't do much more than that except to launch into a pages long analysis about the broken customer service culture at Amtrak and what they need to do to fix it (which won't be easy).

And how many of those posts were made by those who love to ride trains and would do so at any opportunity?

I think you can exclude me from this one. I love to ride trains for a variety of reasons, including comfort, reliability, and personal environmental beliefs. But I also work for an airline. I fly for free on my carrier and a lot of other carriers. So in fact, I find very few opportunities where I end up taking the train, but I generally enjoy it when I do, namely because I've intimately experienced the hassles of air travel, and have generally found train travel to be absolutely blissful compared to them.* Sure, as an Amtrak proponent I come from a skewed vantage point, but how exactly is this relevant? I believe that my air carrier is one of the best in the industry (for the type of carrier we are and the markets we serve), but that doesn't make me any less able to deal with customer service issues that crop up in my day to day work. In fact, I think it makes my ability to deal with such things better.

I suppose my point is, yes, Amtrak has tons of acknowledged issues. But what can we really do about them except acknowledge them, and hope that the politicians sort them out (and actively encourage them to do so)?

*I should note here, I find flying itself to be an exhilarating and beautiful experience. It's the current state of commercial air travel I'm absolutely fed up with. The time I've spent taking flight lessons, for instance, was time I'd never want to have spent any other way, including being on an Amtrak train, as wonderful as the experience is.

 

[VentureForth]

And the ad hominem attacks (avoiding the issue by attacking the person instead) aren't showcasing much comaraderie nor is it encouraging the traveler to take the train like is claimed. In one post, it's her fault for being a naiaeve traveler, and in another she's suspicious because of too many details. This isn't court; she doesn't have to detail every moment in minutea.

I take exception to this comment, because every single one of her issues were addressed. Many were even addressed with a level of empathy completely disproportionate to the way the vitriol was spewed in the first place. In fact, some of the more aggressive responses didn't take into consideration her age - and were later retracted. Even the fact that her original post was a copy of what she sent to Amtrak was not very clear until further down the thread.

If Katie gets anything out of any of this, I hope for the following:

1) When travelling, be prepared. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

2) If you come in screaming, you're going to get a whole lot less empathy than if you show respect and decorum.

3) Please don't say that you won't ever ride again because of one bad experience. You are only 17, and that would really limit your horizons for the next several decades of your life.

4) When people try to help you, try to hear the message, not necessarily the bantering. I know that can be difficult, especially when dealing with a very emotional situation, but a willingness to express your concerns should be coupled with a willingness to understand other points of view.

 

[RailFanLNK]

I have a friend whose daughter is 18 years old and started to talk about going to Argentina for spring break. When I heard this I about fainted. She's not mature enough to travel to another country to see a friend that was a foreign exchange student. Not that maturity is needed, but I have travelled enough to know, "expect the worst" theory. Katie in my opinion was too young to be out galavanting around the country on a mode of transportation that can take days instead of hours. I to, agree with others where she came on this forum with "guns blazing", ok....lets set the tone here, she comes and blasts things that most folks here are passionate about. Not a good move by Katie. My friends daughter is smart, but the maturity part that I'm talking about is when "things go bad, how will she/he handle it?" With Argentina, totally different world, the US....at least we speak the same language here.

So how many cups of coffee will Katie "share her story" about how "terrible" Amtrak was and never spend 1 minute saying, "I was too young and ill-prepared for a trip of this magnitude?" It won't ever be said because pride and ego will not let it happen. Live and learn and she will end up on a trip from hell on the airlines, on Mega Bus, on Greyhound or with a rental car. Those trips from hell are out waiting for her, and if she is ill-prepared again, there will be another mode of transportation she will eliminate due to the terrible consequences of the trip itself.

 

[had8ley]

I have a friend whose daughter is 18 years old and started to talk about going to Argentina for spring break. When I heard this I about fainted. She's not mature enough to travel to another country to see a friend that was a foreign exchange student. Not that maturity is needed, but I have travelled enough to know, "expect the worst" theory. Katie in my opinion was too young to be out galavanting around the country on a mode of transportation that can take days instead of hours. I to, agree with others where she came on this forum with "guns blazing", ok....lets set the tone here, she comes and blasts things that most folks here are passionate about. Not a good move by Katie. My friends daughter is smart, but the maturity part that I'm talking about is when "things go bad, how will she/he handle it?" With Argentina, totally different world, the US....at least we speak the same language here.
So how many cups of coffee will Katie "share her story" about how "terrible" Amtrak was and never spend 1 minute saying, "I was too young and ill-prepared for a trip of this magnitude?" It won't ever be said because pride and ego will not let it happen. Live and learn and she will end up on a trip from hell on the airlines, on Mega Bus, on Greyhound or with a rental car. Those trips from hell are out waiting for her, and if she is ill-prepared again, there will be another mode of transportation she will eliminate due to the terrible consequences of the trip itself.

Nice post Al. The blurb about crews sitting on the tracks to make overtime makes absolutely no sense. It is the sign of immaturity because either a dispatcher for the host RR or Amtrak HQ is going to want to know why and where they are stopped "making overtime." Sometimes a crew can be a little loose lipped and stopped at a red block or behind another train and blurt out, "We're on O/T so what the heck?" but I can't buy into sitting on tracks that 150 car freight trains need to use in order for a small (in comparison) Amtrak train to "make O/T." At age eight I used to take a Lackawanna train from Morris Plains, NJ to Hoboken. Then the ferry across the Hudson to Barclay Street. Then walk through the Farmer's Market to the subway. Then go to Grand Central Station and catch a NYC train home. I never remember ever being confronted by anyone and never having a hard time. I guess it's a sign of the times.

 

[Guest_Yerry_*]

Come off it; once again someone else is going on about the "trains sitting around for OT" bit. Like it's the cornerstone of the experience. More likely, it's brought up solely because it's the only thing that can be solidly proven wrong. Now it's a "maturity level" thing, as if ANY measurable percent of the US population knows that trains are DISPATCHED, let alone HOW, so 99.99%+ of the US is immature. And yes, that's a GLARING example of an ad hominem attack.

And whether she should have ASKED for a taxi is immaterial. Amtrak is in the business and and should have automatically offered, whether she looked 17, 25, like a debutante or a biker. Inexcusable. And politics, budgets or host railroad fault doesn't enter into it.

Comparing the experience with being stranded in an airport is comparing apples to oranges. I was amazed last Spring at how busy stands were at O'Hare at three in the morning and how many 'bummish looking" people had radio microphones poking out of their sleeves. And how many airports are in high-crime areas?

Yeah, I've wondered too about how many people will hear her story. One story may not do much, but I hear so many so often. And "romance of the rails" doesn't excuse it. MOST of my experiences with Amtrak have been nothing short of STUPENDOUS, but the few times things went bad, they were total meltdowns. I've seen with my own eyes passengers in wheelchairs being rolled out to trains early, ahead of the crowd, only to sit in the rain because crew "wasn't ready for boarding", and when they finally boarded after waiting a half hour, the one who dared complain was snapped at with a "You don't know how hard my job is." A friend summed it up for me once; "Amtrak is doing everything it can to put itself out of business"-- and he's motorcycled across India.

If you're all so bent about her decision not to ride again, and it offends you so much, why didn't any of you make any attempt to change her mind or offer suggestions? And why are so many of you taking what she posted so personally? Really. so many of the responses read more like, "Mrs, Lincoln, you would have liked the play better if you had chosen a better seat."

 

[had8ley]

Come off it; once again someone else is going on about the "trains sitting around for OT" bit. Like it's the cornerstone of the experience. More likely, it's brought up solely because it's the only thing that can be solidly proven wrong. Now it's a "maturity level" thing, as if ANY measurable percent of the US population knows that trains are DISPATCHED, let alone HOW, so 99.99%+ of the US is immature. And yes, that's a GLARING example of an ad hominem attack.
If you're all so bent about her decision not to ride again, and it offends you so much, why didn't any of you make any attempt to change her mind or offer suggestions? And why are so many of you taking what she posted so personally? Really. so many of the responses read more like, "Mrs, Lincoln, you would have liked the play better if you had chosen a better seat."

Dear Guest;

Let me first say that most, not all, of the posters here are NOT railroad employees. They are just like you and found the site in the same manner. I personally know some of these posters and they have nothing but the best interests of our damsel in mind. There's seldom "attacks" on this site unless someone's perception of an attack is different than most of the posters on here. The purpose of a Forum is to gather knowledge and convey it, in a dignified manner, to others who may share in that knowledge. To that end Alan and Anthony (who established this site but seldom posts) have done a magnificent job of keeping the site up and running. One lady who gets in distress distresses me but when 37 years of railroading experience kicks in and tells me all is not well as far as our damsel's post, then I have to cry, "TIME OUT." No, my friend, we are not here to attack or take personally someone else's misfortunes~ we strive to help those that want guidance and information obtain same and use it wisely. I hope I speak for a majority of my fellow posters.

 

[the_traveler]

Back in the days that airlines provided hotel vouchers easily, they just provided the voucher (even though it was "only" 1/4 mile away) I never had to ASK "How am I supposed to get there"?" I KNEW that there would probably be a shuttle van or - heaven forbid - I would have to take a cab!

True, Katie is a 17 year old female, but if you are mature enough to be traveling alone, you should be mature enough to plan ahead in case of the unexpected.

Even if your taking a city bus across town, and because of some reason (such as an accident, traffic, detour, etc...) it must end the run early, or gets in too late for the connection to be made, you have to have some other plan (plan B?). In her post, I didn't read anything about Katie's plan B in case something went wrong with her plan A!

I agree that Amtrak was not 100% right, but Katie was not 0% wrong either! There were some thing that she could have done (even before the problems arose) to help the situation.

"How many credit cards did you carry at 17?" True, she probably didn't have an acccount in her name, but most credit cards allow a second card to be issued on the account with someone else's name - and for no extra charge! (My sister had a VISA card on my account in her name - and there is no extra fee!) So she could have had a credit card with her name on (say) her mother's or father's account (for emergencies) - and it would not cost any more! (Maybe they didn't think she's mature enough for a credit card, but she's mature enough to be taking a cross country trip!)

I have had problems with Delta, United, Amtrak, cruise ships, the city bus (in numerous cities) - and even driving or walking! So should I say "I'm never going to fly, take the train, go on a cruise, take a bus, walk or drive ever again!" If I do that, the house is going to be very confining for the next 40 or 50 years!

If I don't sound sympathetic, I'm sorry. But Katie's first post didn't either.

 

[AlanB]

To AllenB-
Your responses and insights are always welcome, and I appreciate them. But I am disappointed that you defended the responses here to Katies' complaints by resorting to comparing how her statements would have fared in different forums. We are not talking about other message boards. We are talking about this one and how your members and guests reacted to it. Let's focus on the issue at hand. You don't know if she would have been butchered on those other sites, it is just your opinion. Since she didn't post, (or we don't know if she did) so how are you so sure and why would you stipulate that as truth if it didn't happen?

First please, it’s Alan, not Allen.

Second, I was neither defending nor criticizing the responses of this board’s members. That’s not my job here, my job is to ensure that people don’t start calling one another names, making personal attacks, using vulgar language, and seeing that posts are in the correct forums. It’s not my job to tell people how to think, or what the appropriate reaction should be to any posts made on this board.

People are going to believe what they want to believe in any given situation, as demonstrated even by a few who agree with you that perhaps people were to harsh and other’s who disagree with you.

I was however pointing out that if you personally were disappointed by the reaction here, that things would have been far worse else where. And that is not my opinion. I’ve seen it happen time and time again on other forums. I didn’t have to step in and clean up any of the comments made here in order to keep things within the rules that I’ve been given for running this forum. I’m positive that I would have needed to do so on most other forums, at least with our rules. There are a few forums, where even the members fight viciously amongst themselves, much less a brand new member making a post like Katie did.

But here at least everyone is allowed to put forth their opinion about anything. There are forums out there where Katie’s post would have simply been deleted. For that matter, so would yours. And please that’s not a threat against you; I’m simply stating the facts. At least here Katie got some skepticism, some support and supportive suggestions, as well as some disbelief. But she was allowed to put forth her complaint, and without being brutally attacked or cut off at the knees by the deletion of her post.

To Katie,

Should you find yourself in such a situation again, be it with Amtrak or not, next time just stick to the facts. Adding things like the bit about a woman who lost her sleeper don’t do anything to prove your case and are irrelevant. Especially to Amtrak or what ever company you’re trying to get some compensation or apology from. That is between Amtrak and that customer.

Including such a detail can cause others to think that you think that your case is weak, and therefore you’re trying to bolster it with other examples. To a customer service rep working on your case, it doesn’t matter what happened to others. It only matters what happened to you, and what he/she can or cannot do about it.

To all members and guests,

I don’t normally do this, but I do want to point out the Guest_Guest is not Katie posting in disguise. He/she has made many other posts to this board, which is one reason that I do wish that they would sign up. It would make it easier for people to communicate with them privately and vice-versa.

Additionally the guest post signed Jody is yet a third person and should not be confused with either Guest_Guest or Katie.

And Yerry has been posting here for years, although I’m not sure why he’s not using his account. Did you loose your password Yerry?

 

[George Harris]

"Maybe a good "chill or time out" is in order to get over it and go forward. Say that to your mother or 17 year old daughter when they run into some trouble.

I would definitely have said it to my daughter. Can't picture it with my mother. But then, we always had some discussion about the possibilities ahead of time. Where were her parents on this?

OK, so it wasn't a train, but my daughter made her first international flight alone at 16. Nearly 24 hours door to door with three changes of planes. On the other hand it was a route she had been on before, more than once.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Second, I was neither defending nor criticizing the responses of this board’s members. That’s not my job here, my job is to ensure that people don’t start calling one another names, making personal attacks, using vulgar language, and seeing that posts are in the correct forums. It’s not my job to tell people how to think, or what the appropriate reaction should be to any posts made on this board.
People are going to believe what they want to believe in any given situation, as demonstrated even by a few who agree with you that perhaps people were to harsh and other’s who disagree with you.

As the kiddies say, QFT!

Some of the worst, flame-ridden threads I've seen - on any board - involve this very issue. Someone - usually a "newbie" - makes a statement that many posters disagree with. The OP and his/her detractors then criticize the "regulars" for their lack of compassion. It escalates from there, until eventually Godwin's law is invoked & the thread is shut down.

What we need to remember - as Alan said - is that our only obligation is to obey the forum rules. No one is under any obligation to support, condone, criticize, condemn, or empathize with any poster or any behavior. We may think that it's in someone's best interest to do so, but that does not make it mandatory.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I have a friend whose daughter is 18 years old and started to talk about going to Argentina for spring break. When I heard this I about fainted. She's not mature enough to travel to another country to see a friend that was a foreign exchange student.

I've been galavanting around the world un-accompanied since I was 14 years old. I'm pretty sure there were times that I was a bit immature for where I was and what I was doing. I can think of quite a few examples, but would rather I didn't- I'd like to forget them. I came prepared with money, a cell phone or pone card, and what wits I had. And I'd say each of these experiences were part of my learning curve.

And I'm not saying that I don't realize that there can be serious consequences. I still vividly remember racing out of the guest house at a border kibbutz in southern Israel, getting into the shelter, and leaving a few hours later to see that same building a shattered ruin. I felt I was ready to go there, my parents gave up fighting me about it, and I went. If I wasn't ready to expect waring in Israel, I shouldn't have gone. If I wasn't ready for travel delays, I shouldn't travel in the US. But I wouldn't say that a 17 year old girl isn't ready by factor of age (or gender).

Come off it; once again someone else is going on about the "trains sitting around for OT" bit. Like it's the cornerstone of the experience. More likely, it's brought up solely because it's the only thing that can be solidly proven wrong.

When someone states the ridiculous, one tends to view their words as words coming from someone who just said something ridiculous. The boy who cried wolf wasn't believed when they were telling the truth for the simple fact that he lied several times. Anything blatantly inaccurate stated by someone, especially something absurd in its inaccuracy, tends to greatly reduce the credibility of all other statements made.

Combine that with the utterly childish- and stating you won't use one American transportation method because it has provided a bad experience the one time you use it, whilst tendering the clear implication that others are problem free is the epitome of childish in my mind- and you find it rather hard to take the person seriously.

That being said, I don't generally disbelieve the OP. Looking at what she actually said, and filtering it through eyes of the inexperienced, emotional, harried traveller, much of what she said not only sounds plausible, it sounds sadly familiar. I have no doubt Amtrak would have been happy to provide a taxi for the OP if she had asked- after all, they were willing to rustle up a bus and driver at 1 in the morning.

But I could easily see them not offering one automatically to a hotel they felt to be within walking distance. And I can see the OP, hassled, annoyed, and bothered, storming off angry about it. But it is the OPs fault that she didn't ask. It is not Amtrak's job to coddle people like babies- they are a rail company, not a pupil-transportation service. If one wants all their problems solved for them, they better be wealthy, because then they can hire a "personal executive secretary" to do all this for them. Otherwise, you have to speak up and deal with your own problems.

 

[RailFanLNK]

My statement with the 18 year old that I knew was wanting to go, was a person I know very well. When things don't go accordingly, she falls apart. So she's sitting in Mexico City, awaiting Argentina Air (or whatever flies there) a situation close to 9/11 happens, she now needs to find a cab and a hotel room and navigate the streets of Mexico City when she even has difficulty navigating the streets of LNK pop: 225,000, this person would completely fall apart. We (her elders) are thousands (plural) miles away, she has enough money for the trip but now we need to wire her money since she's going to be sitting for 1-4 days due to delays and she "can't fly home", now she needs to find a Western Union and this person (the person I mentioned in my post) would be going to pieces. I think Katie was having an extremely difficult time handling the transportation curve balls that were being thrown to her. In 5-10 years, this poster may have never posted because they would have been able to handle it alot better. I have discussed this thread with a couple of friends and the first thing they say is, "why is a 17 year old going on a trip unaccompanied without an adult" especially with a mode of transportation that takes days instead of hours?!?

Al

 

[transit54]

I completely agree with the above two posts. I've been traveling by myself since I was about 17, but I'm the type of person who can deal with things coming up very easily. At 18, I was also responding to 911 calls as an EMT, and I had already spent four years running a successful business, to put things in perspective. So, I've always been one to hate to accept arguments that are purely based on age. But at the same time, most of my friends I had when I was that age weren't prepared to take on journeys of the described magnitude.

The reality is that, regardless of age, some people just aren't great at dealing with things that come up unexpectedly in the course of travel - though its almost always a function of experience. When delays hit flights I'm working, I can tell the business travelers and experienced flyers from those who don't do much flying in the first five seconds they talk to me. With travel experience comes the understanding that things occasionally go wrong - and the knowledge to have a good sense of whether its just an uncontrollable situation or something where some blame needs to be handed to the carrier.

I think the more relevant question is how much travel experience Katie has had. If she hasn't had much (as I suspect), I think that she'll see that every form of transportation has its advantages and disadvantages, and no matter how you travel, sometimes things just go wrong. And also that, within any organization, there are a good employees and employees who frankly shouldn't be working for the company. You can't judge an entire company (and form of transit) based on a single experience.

 

[Guest]

Wow, after how many responses. comes a rational observer guest, guest. Thanks so much for chiming in. I thought I was the lone ranger here for awhile. Sorry about the mispelling of your name AlanB, I am usually meticulous about my spelling, but in my zeal to respond, I did not look at the correct wording of your name.

I guess after all this, the consensus remains the same. Excuses and the non-ability to sympathize or emapathize is the name of the game. Disect, criticiize and subjugate. Yeah, what a great way to welcome folks to your site.

I was 15/16 years old when I hitch hiked and rode trains through out Europe. It may have worked for me but why would you ever think that would apply to everyone else? When a person is angry, frustrated or scared they want reassurance, guidance and comfort. I would say that this person struck out on all three when she posted on this site.

 

[frj1983]

Wow, after how many responses. comes a rational observer guest, guest. Thanks so much for chiming in. I thought I was the lone ranger here for awhile. Sorry about the mispelling of your name AlanB, I am usually meticulous about my spelling, but in my zeal to respond, I did not look at the correct wording of your name.
I guess after all this, the consensus remains the same. Excuses and the non-ability to sympathize or emapathize is the name of the game. Disect, criticiize and subjugate. Yeah, what a great way to welcome folks to your site.

Excuse me but that's not true: please note Green Maned Lion's response: "That being said, I don't generally disbelieve the OP. Looking at what she actually said, and filtering it through eyes of the inexperienced, emotional, harried traveller, much of what she said not only sounds plausible, it sounds sadly familiar."

 

I too feel bad for the way the whole situation unfolded and it sounds somewhat familiar to me too. But you see this kind of customer service response everywhere, not just at Amtrak...as others pointed out the Airlines are rife with it! This cannot be the first time Katie has encountered this kind of thing or she has been really sheltered.

 

What makes you think she came here for reassurance, guidance, and comfort?? Because you might, does not mean that she did....does what you think apply to everyone else too? But lets say that she did, quite a few posters pointed out what could/could have been done, in what I thought was a non-threatening way. When you are dealing with strangers, as on this forum, you have to be willing to accept what's going to be said and also be willing to filter the information. If Katie is smart enough to use Google to find info about Amtrak and find this forum, smart enough to register for this forum, and smart enough to send a message, then she's got to be smart enough to accept that people are going to respond either negatively or positively to whatever statements she makes.

 

I have belonged to this forum for a number of years and have regularly seen people drop in here, rip Amtrak, and then leave and we never see them again! Katie ventilated, we responded, it's up to her to, once again, filter the information and pick up what would be helpful to her! I have the strange feeling, that we won't see her again!

 

Finally Guest_Guest, if you want to be the "Devils Advocate" here, please have the courage of your convictions and register. What you have to say would have more CREED with me IF you registered!

 

[Guest_Yerry_*]

CREED is a belief or motto you live by.

CREDENCE is the amount or trust placed in a statement purporting to be factual.

CREEDENCE is the partial name of a Fullerton, CA rock band of the late '60's and early '70's that pretended to be from the Bayou South.

Since AlanB said you don't have to submit your real name, just what exactly establishes or improves a registered poster's credence? I have a feeling it's not that fact that you're registered or not.

And the question begs to be asked-- if AlanB has to edit someone's post, what does that do to THEIR credence?

 

[jackal]

Since AlanB said you don't have to submit your real name, just what exactly establishes or improves a registered poster's credence? I have a feeling it's not that fact that you're registered or not.

I'm not taking sides here (I think I'm pretty much of the same mind as GML, and you (Yerry) make some valid points), but I just wanted to make an observation on the subject of registering.

I think for general questions or light conversation, unregistered guests and registered users are more or less equivalent.

But when you start to get involved in substantive debates, it is only natural to take someone who is an established member of the community, or at least shows an interest in establishing themselves as a member of a community, more seriously. In most communities, online and offline, internal criticism and debate is treated with greater regard than one-off comments from random outsiders who have no investment in the community. (Occasionally, it can be good to solicit advice from outside experts, but I don't think that's the case here.)

Registering on an anonymous Internet forum doesn't in and of itself prove commitment, but it does lend more weight to your arguments because, as a known member with an identity, you can then be held more accountable for your opinions. Random people who show up and say things anonymously are much more likely to disappear than someone who's taken the time to create an identity and register an email address.

It's also in your best interests, as someone could come along and post anonymously under your name by typing in "Yerry" and completely undermine your points or dash the credibility of your arguments with a single post.

I've participated in both forums that require registration and ones that are completely anonymous, and I have to say that forums requiring registration are typically more civil, because people are held accountable for their speech and community members will shun those who cause unnecessary discord. Anonymous forums (the altamontpress.com forums are notorious for this) are filled much more with vitriol and personal attacks, because it is hard to track a member's establishment in the community and impossible for administrators and moderators to establish rules and enforce discipline. And I'm not sure I'd buy that unregistered/anonymous fora are more open to debate--a good moderating team can still allow an appropriate, healthy amount of argument and discourse (and it appears we have a very good moderating team here). If anything, the moderators can foster healthy debate by curbing the unhealthy debate and personal attacks more common on unmoderated/anonymous forums.

Also, it's generally considered bad form on Internet forums to correct someone's spelling or grammar when the intended meaning is obvious (although you did so with humor, and I got a slight chuckle). It detracts from your argument, as it turns the attention from the facts and opinions to a form of a personal attack. Whereas an out-of-place capital or comma splice stands out to me like it's printed in red ink, I've come to realize over the last few years that some people just naturally don't see these mistakes or, despite receiving the same schooling I've had, just have a harder time grasping the concepts than I did. They're typically more gifted than I in other areas, whether it's differential equations, public speaking and live debate (I argue much better in writing, where I can analyze and formulate my thoughts more slowly than in person), or self-discipline and organizational skills (which I completely lack).

I'm not a moderator here, and it's probably slightly out of place for me to post this, but I just wanted to provide my perspective on this subject for your consideration.

 

[MrEd]

:angry: Then they told us that ever station would be open at the time of arrival, and with every stop we found that we were stranded in -45 degree weather in the slums of the city.

Katie, that does sound like a horrible experience. I have been to Detroit in the summer and I didn't really like it all that much. I hope your next trip finds better conditions, glad you made it home safe this time.

 

[AlanB]

Since AlanB said you don't have to submit your real name, just what exactly establishes or improves a registered poster's credence? I have a feeling it's not that fact that you're registered or not.

In addition to the two main points that Jackal provided:

Registering on an anonymous Internet forum doesn't in and of itself prove commitment, but it does lend more weight to your arguments because, as a known member with an identity, you can then be held more accountable for your opinions. Random people who show up and say things anonymously are much more likely to disappear than someone who's taken the time to create an identity and register an email address.
It's also in your best interests, as someone could come along and post anonymously under your name by typing in "Yerry" and completely undermine your points or dash the credibility of your arguments with a single post.

The other major reason that I see is simply the fact that it provides a way to contact the member privately via the PM system. This allows one to continue the discussion or express things that you might not express publicly.

And then there is the minor point of believing in your statements enough to make the extra, but slight effort to actually register and join the community. After all, a forum is only as rich as its members. All of them, no matter what their views or opinions might be.

And the question begs to be asked-- if AlanB has to edit someone's post, what does that do to THEIR credence?

I edited his post because the quotes were screwed up. Lack of understanding the nuances of the BB in no way diminishes his words.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

CREED is a belief or motto you live by.CREDENCE is the amount or trust placed in a statement purporting to be factual.

CREEDENCE is the partial name of a Fullerton, CA rock band of the late '60's and early '70's that pretended to be from the Bayou South.

Yerry, just to continue what others are saying, briefly, when I get into AIM debates with people, I occasionally come across a certain type of person that, when they run out of answers or places to check my points of view, they start tearing my syntax to shreds. They start saying that if I can't type correctly, I am obviously not mentally capable of continuing the argument, and am not worthy of having my own opinion. Which is ridiculous. Everyone is worthy of having an opinion, and everyone is worthy of expressing it, so long as they take the trouble to support them with facts.

In British (I think) slang, "cred" is often used to mean "credibility". I automatically assumed that to be what FRJ was referencing. On rare occasions, one's mistake in typo makes it hard to understand what they mean. Otherwise, its kind of irrelevant. I mean, if dey R tpin liek dis, if u no wut i men, then it would be reasonable to question their credibility, but if they add an extra letter, subtract one, misspell a word, or accidentally strike the wrong letter, (or my most popular problem of simply leaving out a word because I think faster than I type) its sensible to ignore it.

Also, registering gives people a name to put on a personality. I have an unusual style of talking/typing/writing or so I am told. Knowing it is me typing probably gives someone a better idea of what to take seriously, what to lighten in their mind, and when I am being sarcastic. So in addition to adding credibility and identity, it also increases understanding. Also, you get to understand what each persons area of expertise is. For example, rail information as pertaining to operations is an area of expertise best served by Had8ley, OBS Gone Freight, George Harris, and some I'm not going to list, while other members know more about history, or the science of rail, or particular rolling stock, or customer relations, or whatever.

 

[the_traveler]

I agree that taking the time and effort to register allows other members to "put a face" on a certain poster's words. That is not to say that "they have all the answers", but it does make them more believable. You get to know their areas of knowledge by seeing their postings over and over.

Some examples that I would not know if they did not register:

1) jackal - I would not know he is from Alaska and worked for the Alaska Railroad as a brakeman, and has railroad knowledge

2) rnizlek - I would not know that he works for an airline in customer service, and has been on "the other side" of many of the problems we raise

3) OBS gone freight - I would not have known he has knowledge of train operations

4) AlanB - Besides being a moderator, he has a wealth of knowledge about Amtrak

These are just 4 examples out of ~1500+ members of this forum that have taken the time to register. However, I can't think of 1 thing about "guest.guest" that stands out about her/him!

 

[Guest]

"I can't think of 1 thing about "guest.guest" that stands out about her/him "

Sometimes our first post on here is in reference to something really off the wall that is unlikely to ever happen again. The intensity of the experience provokes a post that is then met with more intensity... and sometimes animosity. In future responses to the poster the events that inspired the first post would be foremost in the responder's mind. You will always remember "Katy"s first post. She's probably a very decent human being who encountered something very stressful for her and it came out in her writing. Flight or fight doesn't always engender the most rational responses.

For some reason, I'm under the impression that Alan and the other moderators have access to the IP addresses and know if a registered poster is the same as an guest poster. If so, he knows that there are those of us who ARE registered but prefer not to post under the registered name. I've been posting pretty consistently, but not under the registered name, since last summer.

Many times I read posts about upcoming trips and could probably with enough Googling and searching this forum determine where you live. Folks, THAT could be a safety issue. While the folksiness is wonderful, this is read by people around the world and by anyone with a computer and an interest in this forum. For that reason, many of us are very careful about our posts.

I would advise Katy and her fellow GuestGuest poster to continue reading this forum to become astute about traveling on Amtrak and not to give up on Amtrak. Recognize that it was a learning experience. She's obviously safe and at her destination. I took my first train trip with 2 friends around age 16. It is my understanding that European childen commonly travel (or did) alone (part of the reason for the establishment of the youth hostels- correct me if this is wrong). So, learn from it, Katy, and add it to your life's experiences. Don't cut out Amtrak or you'll miss out on some future good-to-great experiences.

Jody

 

[The Metropolitan]

I guess there's not a whole lot to add to the discussion by this point. I doubt we'll ever hear back from the OP, but would have liked to ask just what, within reason, she would have suggested should have been done differently.

True that arranging transportation to the hotel would have probably gone a long way, but perhaps not. I've been on trains into Chicago where people were going to miss their westward connections and were being offered overnight hotel and transportation to/from and they were still angry as all could be for missing the connection.

As for the Bus Driver into Michigan, it seems like someone dropped the ball here, though I guess it would be hard to say if it was Amtrak or the Bus Driver himself. It *may* have even been an FTA "Hours of Service" limitation for the Operator himself that kept him from diverting up to East Lansing.

I do agree however that given the repeated nature of the need for bus fill-ins to passengers into Michigan who missed the last train due to their connecting trains running late, Amtrak should be at the ready with some sort of "trip-tik" itinerary routing for the Operators of these emergency situations.

I had a rather dismal trip out of Chicago last February on the Cardinal that tested my endurance significantly. On that, our very late train was almost stranded in West Virginia, and the crews were particularly nasty or dismissive with even the slightest inquiry. Yet, 7 months later, I hesitantly returned to the Cardinal for a return from Charlottesville, and was pleasnatly suprised at the difference.

I guess what I'm trying to say is

1- that one bad trip does not define a carrier.

2 - that when travelling by any means, it helps to lower your expectations from "perfection" to "definitely acceptable" and realize that things can happen to cause things not to occur as planned

3 - that Customer Service Reps are people too, that they have a very stressful job to handle on top of any personal stress, and that they don't always have the power to give you all that you ask. However, they should always treat you as a person and with due empathy for your situation.

Of course, when you fail to get a satisfactory response within reason and you've done a good job of being reasonable with a CSR, then by all means, it's time to take action to try to get proper restitution.

 

[AlanB]

I When a person is angry, frustrated or scared they want reassurance, guidance and comfort. I would say that this person struck out on all three when she posted on this site.

Hmm, let’s just think about that for a moment.

She clearly wasn’t seeking guidance, since 1) she never asked a question, not even an implied one; 2) she already knew what to do and had done so, that being contacting Amtrak. And Amtrak had already responded to the first incident obviously, since she had a $350 voucher for that trip. Basically a refund for her entire trip.

I’m actually a bit unclear as to how she gave $109 off that voucher to a friend in Denver, but that’s not really relevant.

Next, I want to point out to everyone that she was never alone in downtown Chicago at 1:00 AM, her 18 year old boyfriend was with her the whole time.

Also regarding guidance, why after that first experience, would she then let her other friend a 17 ride the same route without being the least bit prepared for any problems. It’s also left unexplained as to why the friend had to overnight in Chicago. Katie only mentions that something went wrong with the reservation when he went to pick up the tickets in Denver, such that the connecting ticket wasn’t there. But why they didn’t just buy/deal with the issue at that moment is unclear. I’m also not sure why he didn’t just buy a ticket when he got to Chicago for the train heading out that night.

If he was able to buy a ticket for the next morning, why not that night?

If after her first horrible experience she didn’t think to warn her friend to be prepared for anything, and to have alternatives in mind, I’m not sure that our guidance would much matter.

Now turning to reassurance and comfort, her post was really about her friend stuck in Chicago. There is very little that even she could do to reassure and/or comfort her friend stranded in CHI, much less anything that we could do. And our comforting her about her friend wasn't going to help him.

Her own experience was far enough in the past that she should have gotten over it at least a bit. But I didn't get the impression that she was looking for reassurance or comfort for herself. She was worried about her friend, a friend that she let set out on a trip, unprepared for a problem.

 

[AlanB]

Yes, Jody, we can see your IP addresses when you post. As an admin I can even see the address that one uses to register, although in your case you didn't use the same IP as you've got now. Not that I would ever reveal or otherwise cross reference the two publicly anyhow.

I only made mention of IP's at all, since people were beginning to wonder if all the posts were coming from Katie. So I wanted it to be clear to everyone, that we did indeed have three different people.