Why I will never ride Amtrak

[jackal]

Amtrak is NOT at fault for the 45 minute delays. The crews did NOT "decide" to stop. The host railroad, Union Pacific primarily in your case, ordered them to stop, so as to benefit Union Pacific's freight trains.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions. From Denver to Chicago, the CZ runs on BNSF lines, not UP rail. Host railroads don't screw with Amtrak for fun. Delays are caused by congestion, mechanical breakdowns, weather, etc. Yesterday, Amtrak 5 was stopped west of Grand Junction due to rock slides. Was that anyone's fault?

Very true, and UP doesn't intentionally delay Amtrak just because they hate having to give it space. However, it does seem that BNSF does go the extra mile to ensure Amtrak is treated as well as possible, even going as far as to have a dedicated person in their dispatch center to watch over Amtrak's trains and ensure they are given priority and kept on time. While UP can't be accused of killing Amtrak for sport, they certainly appear to do the bare minimum (although I'm sure UP freights are delayed quite a bit as well, since they didn't have the foresight BNSF did to double- and triple-track the entirety of their core high-volume routes).

 

[RailBirder]

Very true, and UP doesn't intentionally delay Amtrak just because they hate having to give it space. However, it does seem that BNSF does go the extra mile to ensure Amtrak is treated as well as possible, even going as far as to have a dedicated person in their dispatch center to watch over Amtrak's trains and ensure they are given priority and kept on time. While UP can't be accused of killing Amtrak for sport, they certainly appear to do the bare minimum (although I'm sure UP freights are delayed quite a bit as well, since they didn't have the foresight BNSF did to double- and triple-track the entirety of their core high-volume routes).

I'm not sure where you get your information but, the UP also has a dedicated manager in their dispatch center to answer to for delaying Amtrak. I don't know, but I would be surprised if the CSX and other major railroads don't also have a dispatch Amtrak manager. Which BNSF Amtrak routes are double- and triple tracked their entirety? None that I know of. Certainly not any of the scenic mountainous routes.

 

[had8ley]

Katie;

I just want to add that no transportation system is perfect. I don't care what Donald Trump says about everything he rides on is "perfect." There is no such thing. You, unfortunately, experienced just about everything that could go wrong on Amtrak. Why don't you sit back and read some of the other stories that posters have written under Travelogues. Combined with what you experienced plan another trip and give it an educated shot. I'm sorry you were the lamb who went to the meat packer but next time, with a little investigating, you can come out of the gate like a lion at the Coliseum.

 

[had8ley]

Very true, and UP doesn't intentionally delay Amtrak just because they hate having to give it space.

I would like to agree with you but I have been on the Sunset and sat in a siding, more than once, when not one, but two, hot shot stack trains went sailing by at 70 mph going in the SAME direction. I have also been in the Harriman dispatching center (it's called the "bunker" because it's under ground) when I heard a dispatcher say, "Oh well, #2's only 10 hours late. What's another couple of hours gonna hurt?" If I had not been standing there I would never have believed it.

 

[the_traveler]

Which BNSF Amtrak routes are double- and triple tracked their entirety? None that I know of.

I think most of the BNSF trans-con is double tracked, except in a few small places. (And those are being expanded to double track!) And most of the trans-con through AZ is (IIRC) triple-tracked!

 

[VentureForth]

Which BNSF Amtrak routes are double- and triple tracked their entirety? None that I know of.

I think most of the BNSF trans-con is double tracked, except in a few small places. (And those are being expanded to double track!) And most of the trans-con through AZ is (IIRC) triple-tracked!

Very true. There are a few exceptions. One of the last ones on the main trans con is at Abo Canyon, just East of Belen where the trains go back into the mountains.

The former BNSF line from Belen to Trinidad, CO where the SWC rides is single track, but was sold to the state of New Mexico. The bottle neck here will be negotiating with the Rail Runner which gets priority if Amtrak isn't on time.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

I was just watching CNN at lunch today, & the anchor was talking about all the trouble the airlines are in lately. She quoted the following statistics, all without sources (which is one of the great things about TV news, you apparently never have to bother about quoting your sources):

*three airlines have shut down this week (ATA, Aloha, and my local favorite Skybus)

*passenger complaints are up 60% over last year

*25% of all flights now arrive late

And the higher gas prices go, the worse air travel is going to get. So yes, Amtrak has its faults, but air travel is far from an "ideal" alternative to rail travel.

 

[jis]

My WORST flight experience was with United. After being bumped off our originating flight for a flight 6 hours later, we end up in Denver. We then walk to the rebooking desk as instructed. At the desk, a lone employee is handling the rebooking of a line of about 20 passengers. With, say, maybe 14 left in the line, the agent LEFT the desk and told the rest of us to goto the ticketing desk. I was livid. If he had told us that when we first got there, instead of making us wait in line for an HOUR, I would not have erupted at him (which I did).

Ah yes, good old United. Their crowning achievement was when they told me that their flight from Newark to Chicago connecting to a flight to Tokyo cannot make it into Chicago in time on a perfectly clear and weather free day both in New York and Chicago, and hence I should just go home and come back tomorrow to try again. No voucher for nuthin'. I was supposed to make arrangements to get back home which then was 65 miles away and make arrangement to get back to the airport the next day too. When I complained, they said well you could consider spending the whole day and night at the airport if you wish.

In all I have flown from Newark to Tokyo about 9 round trips on United of which they have managed to get me to Tokyo on the day on which I was scheduled to arrive only 5 times. The other 4 times they were a day late! Needless to say I don;t fly them anymore. So please don't tell me about how private companies are soooooo much better.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Try to take Amtrak to Tokyo!

I once went to europe as a non-booked (I made the arrangements with the captain) passenger on a container ship. Thats how I'd go to Japan if I ever felt the need to.

 

[PRR 60]

Try to take Amtrak to Tokyo!
I once went to europe as a non-booked (I made the arrangements with the captain) passenger on a container ship. Thats how I'd go to Japan if I ever felt the need to.

Did you have to be packed in a container, or could you be out and about?
Years ago, before containers took over marine freight, you could book travel on freighters. Some of them were pretty nice rides with nice cabins and great food. There was only a hint at a schedule, but that made it a little like Amtrak.

 

[AlanB]

Just in time for this little discussion, NBC World News Tonight just tonight did a segment on the Airlines. Complaints are up by 60%, 27% of all flights were delayed, and many many other complaints and issues.

You can view the video by clicking here.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Try to take Amtrak to Tokyo!
I once went to europe as a non-booked (I made the arrangements with the captain) passenger on a container ship. Thats how I'd go to Japan if I ever felt the need to.

Did you have to be packed in a container, or could you be out and about?
Years ago, before containers took over marine freight, you could book travel on freighters. Some of them were pretty nice rides with nice cabins and great food. There was only a hint at a schedule, but that made it a little like Amtrak.

Was a pretty nice cabin. Nothing luxurious or such, but nice sized. Bigger than anything I've ever been in on a cruise ship. Food was danged good. I figured it would be plain, but it wasn't. I could walk around so long as I didn't get in the way.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

Just in time for this little discussion, NBC World News Tonight just tonight did a segment on the Airlines. Complaints are up by 60%, 27% of all flights were delayed, and many many other complaints and issues.
You can view the video by clicking here.

Sounds to me like its time to take away airline subsidies and spend them on Amtrak and high-speed rail.

 

[VentureForth]

Some folks have commercialized container ship cruises - to the tune of several thousand dollars per leg.

So much for that pastime. Will swab deck for passage and chow.

 

[gswager]

Which BNSF Amtrak routes are double- and triple tracked their entirety? None that I know of.

I think most of the BNSF trans-con is double tracked, except in a few small places. (And those are being expanded to double track!) And most of the trans-con through AZ is (IIRC) triple-tracked!

Very true. There are a few exceptions. One of the last ones on the main trans con is at Abo Canyon, just East of Belen where the trains go back into the mountains.

Two more- Pecos River bridge and the flyover over UP line in Vaughn.

As for Abo Canyon, I believe it is either now double track or almost completed.

The former BNSF line from Belen to Trinidad, CO where the SWC rides is single track, but was sold to the state of New Mexico. The bottle neck here will be negotiating with the Rail Runner which gets priority if Amtrak isn't on time.

True, but the distance is not that bad, so the delay is minor since ABQ is Amtrak's service stop which scheduled for about an hour.

 

[gswager]

Try to take Amtrak to Tokyo!
I once went to europe as a non-booked (I made the arrangements with the captain) passenger on a container ship. Thats how I'd go to Japan if I ever felt the need to.

Did you have to be packed in a container, or could you be out and about?
Years ago, before containers took over marine freight, you could book travel on freighters. Some of them were pretty nice rides with nice cabins and great food. There was only a hint at a schedule, but that made it a little like Amtrak.

Was a pretty nice cabin. Nothing luxurious or such, but nice sized. Bigger than anything I've ever been in on a cruise ship. Food was danged good. I figured it would be plain, but it wasn't. I could walk around so long as I didn't get in the way.

How do I find the information over the website about booking on freight ships and even freight airlines as a pasenger?

 

[caravanman]

I suppose in fairness to the original post, passengers do have less familiarity with trains than planes, in America. I think it would be reasonable, given the high percentage of late trains, for whatever reason, that Amtrak spelt out their policy about getting people to their destinations. Everyone is a first time user at some point, and most first timers will not be aware of what happens after the delays. I am sure info is there in the Amtrak terms and conditions for keen readers, but I am guessing that most ticket agents will not inform purchasers of the potential for delay, and the consequences for that passenger..

It is a complex issue, and a lot depends on the customer service attitude of the Amtrak staff at the time, but I feel that if it was clear to first time users what would happen to them in a delay situation, before they bought their ticket, it might cut down the incidence of passenger expectations not being met.

Ed B)

 

[the_traveler]

I suppose in fairness to the original post, passengers do have less familiarity with trains than planes, in America. I think it would be reasonable, given the high percentage of late trains, for whatever reason, that Amtrak spelt out their policy about getting people to their destinations. Everyone is a first time user at some point, and most first timers will not be aware of what happens after the delays. I am sure info is there in the Amtrak terms and conditions for keen readers, but I am guessing that most ticket agents will not inform purchasers of the potential for delay, and the consequences for that passenger.. It is a complex issue, and a lot depends on the customer service attitude of the Amtrak staff at the time, but I feel that if it was clear to first time users what would happen to them in a delay situation, before they bought their ticket, it might cut down the incidence of passenger expectations not being met.

Ed B)

While I agree that Amtrak could spell out their policy, most people would not care and would still complain.

There are radio and/or TV traffic reports, so people are aware of the traffic up ahead, but I'm sure many people complain about the traffic they encounter in New York, Los Angeles or London! The airlines may tell you what will happen if your plane is delayed, but I'm sure many people complain if the flight is 2-3 hours late and they miss their connecting flight!

So why do you think that people will read "the Amtrak policy" and not complain? :huh:

 

[BobWeaver]

Try to take Amtrak to Tokyo!
I once went to europe as a non-booked (I made the arrangements with the captain) passenger on a container ship. Thats how I'd go to Japan if I ever felt the need to.

Did you have to be packed in a container, or could you be out and about?
Years ago, before containers took over marine freight, you could book travel on freighters. Some of them were pretty nice rides with nice cabins and great food. There was only a hint at a schedule, but that made it a little like Amtrak.

Was a pretty nice cabin. Nothing luxurious or such, but nice sized. Bigger than anything I've ever been in on a cruise ship. Food was danged good. I figured it would be plain, but it wasn't. I could walk around so long as I didn't get in the way.

How do I find the information over the website about booking on freight ships and even freight airlines as a pasenger?

A quick Google search pulled this one up first: http://www.geocities.com/freighterman.geo/mainmenu.html.

 

[AlanB]

I suppose in fairness to the original post, passengers do have less familiarity with trains than planes, in America. I think it would be reasonable, given the high percentage of late trains, for whatever reason, that Amtrak spelt out their policy about getting people to their destinations. Everyone is a first time user at some point, and most first timers will not be aware of what happens after the delays. I am sure info is there in the Amtrak terms and conditions for keen readers, but I am guessing that most ticket agents will not inform purchasers of the potential for delay, and the consequences for that passenger.. It is a complex issue, and a lot depends on the customer service attitude of the Amtrak staff at the time, but I feel that if it was clear to first time users what would happen to them in a delay situation, before they bought their ticket, it might cut down the incidence of passenger expectations not being met.

Ed B)

While I agree that Amtrak could spell out their policy, most people would not care and would still complain.

There are radio and/or TV traffic reports, so people are aware of the traffic up ahead, but I'm sure many people complain about the traffic they encounter in New York, Los Angeles or London! The airlines may tell you what will happen if your plane is delayed, but I'm sure many people complain if the flight is 2-3 hours late and they miss their connecting flight!

So why do you think that people will read "the Amtrak policy" and not complain? :huh:

Agreed, far to many people never read the fine print and disclaimers. Not to mention that you'd be shooting yourself in the foot to advertise that your train could be a day late.

The airlines certainly don't go around advertising that their planes can be late. It just simply isn't done and won't be done.

 

[RailFanLNK]

Well...I hope Katie didn't decide to try and fly on American Airlines this week! :angry:

 

[TraneMan]

Well...I hope Katie didn't decide to try and fly on American Airlines this week! :angry:

LOL Yeah, I was thinking of the same thing! What a mess they got going!

 

[GG-1]

Well...I hope Katie didn't decide to try and fly on American Airlines this week! :angry:

LOL Yeah, I was thinking of the same thing! What a mess they got going!

Aloha

Someone who knows a lot more about the wire issue in the planes told me the grounding and inspections are only beginning. So far they are finding about 7% don't pass. This person reported to me some heads will role in FAA for allowing this to become this serious and delaying these inspections.

 

[Chris J.]

Well...I hope Katie didn't decide to try and fly on American Airlines this week! :angry:

Giving American Airlines credit where it's due, they did reroute me to get me back to the UK having cancelled my flight. It may have helped I was at the airport early (so the other flights weren't full yet) and I was willing to take a London flight rather than try to get to Manchester (it made little difference for me in terms of time, and they gave me a form to (try and) claim back the extra expense).

I don't think the cancellation was related to the inspections (it was meant to be a 767), but I was relieved to be able to get a flight and not spend the night at O'Hare!

This was an international flight tho, I can imagine passengers on internal flights might not be so fortunate!

 

[had8ley]

But an FYI is Amtrak, as a govermnet owned company, has been caught and reported in newspapers for standing on tracks to rack up thier pay.

I’d love to see the proof on this one. I’m sorry, but I’ve been following Amtrak for years and I’ve never heard this story before. And short of standing in Chicago’s Union Station, it can’t happen and wouldn’t happen just about anywhere else, for several reasons.

Second, the operating crews (engineer & conductors) can’t easily play a game like that, as two things happen. First, they are only allowed by law to work a certain number of hours. If they go over that, bad things happen. Second if they don’t get to where they are going within a reasonable amount of time, then they don’t get enough rest and can’t work their next shift, which means that they now loose potentially 8 or more hours of pay.

And believe me; most of the crews want to ensure that either they get home to their own beds that night, or to the hotel where they are supposed to stay. They don’t want to run out on their hours of service and be stuck in the middle of no where waiting for a van to come pick them up and take them to their hotel, much less standing there facing angry passengers who want to know why the train is stopped.

As for the on board service crew, the car attendants, waiters, cooks, café attendants; those guys and gals have pretty much been on duty for two days straight by the time they get to Chicago. They aren’t looking for an extra hour or two of work at that point; they are looking for a bed!

Finally, we don’t know all of the fact regarding the women who said she had booked a sleeper. Occasionally double bookings do happen. But it is also possible that she boarded at the wrong stop, and therefore the crew believed that she was a no-show and sold her room to someone who wanted to upgrade.

Alan; I'm not sure about Amtrak but the freight railroads have a "free day" work rule. If you are not rested for your next tour of duty for working "over the hogs" (beyond 12 hours) you get paid what the relief, or extra, crew makes the next trip while you sit at home.