Will anyone miss Amfleet cars?

[west point]

I prefer seeing Amfleets still around 15 years from now. That would mean that there is a massive increase of revenue passenger miles that Siemens cars cannot meet.

 

[Cal]

Chicago area railfans. Still going strong on Metra, many have been upgraded to F40PH-3.

Oh, well that's true. But I was talking about Amtrak service.

 

[Willbridge]

The attached 1982 brochure catches Amtrak at the point when pre-Amtrak equipment faded away.

 

[joelkfla]

The attached 1982 brochure catches Amtrak at the point when pre-Amtrak equipment faded away.

Fascinating!

Question: Why does a Superliner Baggage Coach seat 78 on the upper level, but a Superliner Coach seat only 62 up there? Is there less legroom on the Baggage Coach?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don’t think it is a stretch to say that Amfleet has defined Amtrak for most of its existence.

It's a bit of a stretch if you live West of Chicago.

 

[PVD]

That doesn't sound right, I though a typical SL coach was 62 upstairs 12 downstairs, a Coach Bag just the 62 upstairs, but California Cars and California SL rebuilds would have the higher density seating.

 

[jis]

It's a bit of a stretch if you live West of Chicago.

Indeed. There are relative few Amfleets between the Mississippi River and the Pacific Ocean. Amfleets are a mostly Eastern phenomenon.

In the past there were many more Amfleets west of the Miss, but not anymore.

But then again insisting on the centrality of Amfleet for Amtrak goes hand in hand with insisting on the centrality of the NEC for Amtrak, which has been an ongoing struggle for the identity of Amtrak.

 

[jiml]

Indeed. There are relative few Amfleets between the Mississippi River and the Pacific Ocean. Amfleets are a mostly Eastern phenomenon.

In the past there were many more Amfleets west of the Miss, but not anymore.

The San Diegans used to feature Amfleet prior to the advent of the Cali cars and the re-branding to Surfliner. I remember riding them to Angels' games.

 

[jis]

All short distance service in California and the Cascadia were Amfleet before a mix of bilevels, Horizons and Talgos pretty much displaced them completely.

There were also pre-Superliner LDs that sported Amfleets too. The Pioneer and the Desert Wind had them in addition to some of the transcons for a short while until the Superliners arrived.

AFAICT the only regularly scheduled partly Amfleet consists west of the Miss are now in the Midwest, and soon to end, and of course occasionally pinch hitting on the west coast too.

 

[Siegmund]

Question: Why does a Superliner Baggage Coach seat 78 on the upper level, but a Superliner Coach seat only 62 up there? Is there less legroom on the Baggage Coach?

That doesn't sound right, I though a typical SL coach was 62 upstairs 12 downstairs, a Coach Bag just the 62 upstairs, but California Cars and California SL rebuilds would have the higher density seating.

As originally built, yes, the coach-baggage had the seats much closer together. If memory serves, only footrests and not legrests. Still nicer than Amfleet I or a Greyhound but noticeably more cramped than a Superliner coach or a Heritage 46-seat long distance coach. The seats didn't recline as far, either; they were a lot less fun to sleep in than a regular coach.

After your first ride on an 80s superliner train, you learned to hustle from "the 11 car" to "the 15 car" if you wanted to be comfortable (that was what they were called on the Pioneer, anyway - they put all the passengers not going past Salt Lake in the coach-baggage if they could, because only the full coach and the sleeper went on to Chicago. Yes, you lose some of the benefit of the coach-baggage if you have to handle all the luggage in Salt Lake...)

I think the concept was supposed to be that there would be short-distance and long-distance coaches, Amfleet style, on each long-distance train. The concept was sufficiently unpopular that eventually the coach-baggages had the seats spread farther apart to match the coaches. I don't remember when, but after 1990.

 

[wildchicken13]

Perhaps we will see more Amfleet coaches in the West after their replacements begin to arrive in the East. Or perhaps not. Many of them will have been in service for almost half a century by the time the new coaches are delivered and Amtrak may decide to just scrap them.

 

[PVD]

As originally built, yes, the coach-baggage had the seats much closer together. If memory serves, only footrests and not legrests. Still nicer than Amfleet I or a Greyhound but noticeably more cramped than a Superliner coach or a Heritage 46-seat long distance coach. The seats didn't recline as far, either; they were a lot less fun to sleep in than a regular coach.

After your first ride on an 80s superliner train, you learned to hustle from "the 11 car" to "the 15 car" if you wanted to be comfortable (that was what they were called on the Pioneer, anyway - they put all the passengers not going past Salt Lake in the coach-baggage if they could, because only the full coach and the sleeper went on to Chicago. Yes, you lose some of the benefit of the coach-baggage if you have to handle all the luggage in Salt Lake...)

I think the concept was supposed to be that there would be short-distance and long-distance coaches, Amfleet style, on each long-distance train. The concept was sufficiently unpopular that eventually the coach-baggages had the seats spread farther apart to match the coaches. I don't remember when, but after 1990.

That makes sense, just hasn't been that way in a long time.

 

[Willbridge]

That makes sense, just hasn't been that way in a long time.

It was based on the classic North American consists, with the lead coach being a higher density car behind the baggage, mail and express cars. The official reasons for this were to put the car handling local passengers onto the short platforms of small towns along with the head-end cars and to handle employees traveling on passes without them being in a car that other passengers had to pass through. My dad enjoyed riding in those coaches and listening to employees "shooting the breeze." Sometimes those cars were unreserved, even though the rest of the train was reserved. Unofficially, as documented by professor Mia Bay, some conductors steered Black passengers into the lead coach outside of the South.

Amtrak's chronic equipment shortage resulted in putting longer-distance customers in these cars, as described in posts above. And that led to the need to re-space the seating.

 

[joelkfla]

It was based on the classic North American consists, with the lead coach being a higher density car behind the baggage, mail and express cars. The official reasons for this were to put the car handling local passengers onto the short platforms of small towns along with the head-end cars and to handle employees traveling on passes without them being in a car that other passengers had to pass through. My dad enjoyed riding in those coaches and listening to employees "shooting the breeze." Sometimes those cars were unreserved, even though the rest of the train was reserved. Unofficially, as documented by professor Mia Bay, some conductors steered Black passengers into the lead coach outside of the South.

Amtrak's chronic equipment shortage resulted in putting longer-distance customers in these cars, as described in posts above. And that led to the need to re-space the seating.

I love these little snippets of unwritten history. You should write a book or 2.

 

[Cal]

AFAICT the only regularly scheduled partly Amfleet consists west of the Miss are now in the Midwest, and soon to end, and of course occasionally pinch hitting on the west coast too.

Surfline still regularly has an Amfleet set. Not sure if it's used when there's reduced trains but it was definitely used daily pre-COVID.

 

[fdaley]

Surfline still regularly has an Amfleet set. Not sure if it's used when there's reduced trains but it was definitely used daily pre-COVID.

I have run into that Amfleet train set on some of my visits to southern California over the past decade. It's always been a big disappointment to me when it shows up, as the regular Surfliner cars are so much nicer. Amfleet is the plain vanilla of Amtrak -- mostly adequate, but nothing special, especially to me as someone from the Northeast.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I think the young people are a mixed bag; some love the nostalgia of the Amfleets while others will want something shiny and new.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

It was based on the classic North American consists, with the lead coach being a higher density car behind the baggage, mail and express cars. The official reasons for this were to put the car handling local passengers onto the short platforms of small towns along with the head-end cars and to handle employees traveling on passes without them being in a car that other passengers had to pass through. My dad enjoyed riding in those coaches and listening to employees "shooting the breeze.

Reminds me of an interesting experience in the 1990s of my 2 sons and I traveling from BOS to PHL we somehow ended up the the front car of the Regional which was the unofficial car for deadheading Amtrak employees and the conductors steered regular passengers away from it. Not sure how we got in there. It was cool listening to all the railroad talk, people studying for their tests to get promoted to engineer, etc. Even a couple reading Passenger Train Journal, as was I.

 

[PaTrainFan]

When they are completely gone, I will miss the old fashioned, noisy, partially exposed vestibules. Part of the traditional rail experience.

 

[SanDiegan]

As Amfleet I cars are soon headed for the great coach yard in the sky, to be replaced by Siemens equipment, will you miss them?

I find them comfortable and they ride well, but the small windows are less than ideal. So I won’t, although I’ll give Amtrak credit for buying what worked out to be a good product.

I will miss the wider seats

 

[MARC Rider]

I think the concept was supposed to be that there would be short-distance and long-distance coaches, Amfleet style, on each long-distance train. The concept was sufficiently unpopular that eventually the coach-baggages had the seats spread farther apart to match the coaches. I don't remember when, but after 1990.

In the east, this is done on a couple of the longer-running day trains, the Palmetto and the Pennsylvania, and maybe the Adirondack. Both have mostly Amfleet 2 coaches, but they also have an Amfleet 1 coach for people taking shorter runs. For some reason, the other longer running day trains don't have Amfleet 2 coaches -- the Vermonter, the Carolinian, the Roanoaker, etc. Not sure why some of the trains got the Amfleet 2s and other didn't. And none of the eastern overnight trains have Amfleet 1 coaches for people making shorter runs.

 

[jis]

In the east, this is done on a couple of the longer-running day trains, the Palmetto and the Pennsylvania, and maybe the Adirondack. Both have mostly Amfleet 2 coaches, but they also have an Amfleet 1 coach for people taking shorter runs. For some reason, the other longer running day trains don't have Amfleet 2 coaches -- the Vermonter, the Carolinian, the Roanoaker, etc. Not sure why some of the trains got the Amfleet 2s and other didn't. And none of the eastern overnight trains have Amfleet 1 coaches for people making shorter runs.

The reason is quite simple actually. There aren't enough Amfleet II Coaches around to thus equip all of them. The corridor trains in the east that in non-COVID times have had Amfleet II Coaches are the Pennsylvanian, the Adirondack and the Maple Leaf. The Palmetto officially is an LD train, though I believe it does have a few Amfleet I Coaches too. Actually the Pennsylvanian and the Palmetto share consists.

 

[AFriendly]

I will miss them. My first ever Amtrak trip was on the long-gone Silver Palm in 1985 when the Amfleet II cars were basically new. They were smooth-riding and quiet compared to the Heritage sleepers and diners that always seemed to have something rattling around. Was soundproofing even a thing back then? A lot of pre-Amtrak nostalgia is around flagship streamliners, but when you compare the heavyweight cars with clerestory roofs which were in service well into the postwar era, the Amfleets are state-of-the-art. The all-stainless construction is timeless but unfortunately some of the suspension components and the door seals are not, so they certainly came to show their age in later years, especially in winter conditions with snow piling up in the vestibules and even into the ends of the car interiors. Those issues could have been fixed if Amtrak had the money though. Whatever replaces them will be an improvement but its hard to believe it will last as long.

 

[west point]

Many years ago, when the Crescent had 4 or 5 coaches the last 2 or 3 were Amfleet-1s. They were closed off south of ATL. Then the -1s were used for shorts

If you think Amfleet vestibules were bad just ride the old heavyweights in a snowstorm. The forward vestibule one time was completely filled with snow. Could not even open the door. Was trapped in that one car except for stops where you change cars especially to the diner...

 

[railiner]

The era that will end when the last Amfleet car is removed from service began six years before the first Amfleet car went into service. The Amfleet era began with the Penn Central Metroliner.

https://streamlinermemories.info/?p=2276
http://www.tsfr.org/~efbrazil/budd_usa.html