Exiled in Express
Lead Service Attendant
For purely selfish reasons, a train paralleling I-35. Duluth-Saint Paul-Des Moines-Osceloa-Kansas City. No idea if there is a rail footprint in place though.
For purely selfish reasons, a train paralleling I-35. Duluth-Saint Paul-Des Moines-Osceloa-Kansas City. No idea if there is a rail footprint in place though.
No, you're right, Traveler. Katrina is not the reason, not really, although it was the catalyst for the suspension.You do understand it?New Orleans and Jacksonville (formerly the Sunset) needs to be reinstated post haste. I understand why the service has been suspended these last 5 yearsThen please explain it!
And don't say that Katrina ripped up the tracks! So why did CSX repair them within a short time and are using them everyday - and the SL-East is still "temporarily suspended" all these years later?
I agree in principle. Though this will require OHE electrification of the New York - Albany route, and of course the current Acela sets cannot be run in connected pairs.I'd like to see improved-speed (say, 125mph) extensions that could be used by Acela sets; PHL to Harrisburg, NYP to Albany, etc. Then they could run paired sets between NYP and PHL or WAS, cutting travel times between those places, and simplifying connections. This double-set system is used by many European railroads (the French do a lovely job of it with TGV and Thalys sets, splitting at Bruxelles, to send one set to Amsterdam and another to Koln, for example). Just improve the rights-of-way and electrify them, and we'd be good to go! Maybe they could electrify the line from WAS down to Newport News or Richmond, for example...
Mark, for both you and 'exiled' the former Rock Island 'Twin Star Rocket' ran on this route between Houston, DFW, Kansas City and of course the twin cities until the 1960's when the Rock's financial problems pretty much killed all it's passenger trains. The train ran between the Lone Star State and the North Star State, hence the name. Today you could duplicate that route by just extending the Heartland Flyer north to Kansas City and the twin cities and south to Houston.For purely selfish reasons, a train paralleling I-35. Duluth-Saint Paul-Des Moines-Osceloa-Kansas City. No idea if there is a rail footprint in place though.
There is a very straight-shot rail footprint in place. BNSF Duluth-MSP, then UP from MSP to Kansas City. The UP "Spine Line" is a secondary main with maximum speeds of 40-50 mph and slow speed restrictions through towns. I went to college in Northfield,MN and often wished there was a train on this route, at least between MSP and Albert Lea.
Mark
Part of that is true. So why not just run a separate train from NOL to FL, or continue the SL to FL?My understanding is that Amtrak has continued the suspension because they were not satisfied with the service (especially on-time performance), but political and managerial hurdles have kept them from devising a solution and reinstating the service. But I could be wrong.
NYP-Albany isn't as easy as Harrisburg; the way the Empire Connection enters the station, the trains would have to reverse direction, towards the west, to leave. Not a huge deal for the Acela, with dual power cars, but it wouldn't work well for the Regionals.I agree in principle. Though this will require OHE electrification of the New York - Albany route, and of course the current Acela sets cannot be run in connected pairs.I'd like to see improved-speed (say, 125mph) extensions that could be used by Acela sets; PHL to Harrisburg, NYP to Albany, etc. Then they could run paired sets between NYP and PHL or WAS, cutting travel times between those places, and simplifying connections. This double-set system is used by many European railroads (the French do a lovely job of it with TGV and Thalys sets, splitting at Bruxelles, to send one set to Amsterdam and another to Koln, for example). Just improve the rights-of-way and electrify them, and we'd be good to go! Maybe they could electrify the line from WAS down to Newport News or Richmond, for example...
Maybe that is why they talk about converting the AEM-7s into cab cars so that they can run push-pull regionals.NYP-Albany isn't as easy as Harrisburg; the way the Empire Connection enters the station, the trains would have to reverse direction, towards the west, to leave. Not a huge deal for the Acela, with dual power cars, but it wouldn't work well for the Regionals.
??WHY can't they be connected??? The DO have knuckles under the "bumpers" on the power units, so they just open them (they're hinged) and connect like any other cars...I agree in principle. Though this will require OHE electrification of the New York - Albany route, and of course the current Acela sets cannot be run in connected pairs.I'd like to see improved-speed (say, 125mph) extensions that could be used by Acela sets; PHL to Harrisburg, NYP to Albany, etc. Then they could run paired sets between NYP and PHL or WAS, cutting travel times between those places, and simplifying connections. This double-set system is used by many European railroads (the French do a lovely job of it with TGV and Thalys sets, splitting at Bruxelles, to send one set to Amsterdam and another to Koln, for example). Just improve the rights-of-way and electrify them, and we'd be good to go! Maybe they could electrify the line from WAS down to Newport News or Richmond, for example...
It actually wouldn't be all that hard nor time consuming to just shoot the train over to Sunnyside first and loop it around and right back into NYP and the Empire connection.Maybe that is why they talk about converting the AEM-7s into cab cars so that they can run push-pull regionals.NYP-Albany isn't as easy as Harrisburg; the way the Empire Connection enters the station, the trains would have to reverse direction, towards the west, to leave. Not a huge deal for the Acela, with dual power cars, but it wouldn't work well for the Regionals.
The trains can indeed be connected via the coupler under the shroud on the nose of the power car.??WHY can't they be connected??? The DO have knuckles under the "bumpers" on the power units, so they just open them (they're hinged) and connect like any other cars...I agree in principle. Though this will require OHE electrification of the New York - Albany route, and of course the current Acela sets cannot be run in connected pairs.I'd like to see improved-speed (say, 125mph) extensions that could be used by Acela sets; PHL to Harrisburg, NYP to Albany, etc. Then they could run paired sets between NYP and PHL or WAS, cutting travel times between those places, and simplifying connections. This double-set system is used by many European railroads (the French do a lovely job of it with TGV and Thalys sets, splitting at Bruxelles, to send one set to Amsterdam and another to Koln, for example). Just improve the rights-of-way and electrify them, and we'd be good to go! Maybe they could electrify the line from WAS down to Newport News or Richmond, for example...
A revised Twin Star Rocket would be a very good idea for a north south mid country route. The one catch is that it would be all UPRR. A quick skim through employee timetables as of 2006 - 2007 (they were legitimately on-line for a while) says that all this is signaled, most of it CTC. Much of it also has a freight train speed limit of 60 mph, with most of the rest at 50 mph, with of course the expected speed restrictions for towns, curves, etc. Thus, it appears that very little work would be necessary to achieve the passenger train speeds from the late 1950's.Mark, for both you and 'exiled' the former Rock Island 'Twin Star Rocket' ran on this route between Houston, DFW, Kansas City and of course the twin cities until the 1960's when the Rock's financial problems pretty much killed all it's passenger trains. The train ran between the Lone Star State and the North Star State, hence the name. Today you could duplicate that route by just extending the Heartland Flyer north to Kansas City and the twin cities and south to Houston.There is a very straight-shot rail footprint in place. BNSF Duluth-MSP, then UP from MSP to Kansas City. The UP "Spine Line" is a secondary main with maximum speeds of 40-50 mph and slow speed restrictions through towns. I went to college in Northfield,MN and often wished there was a train on this route, at least between MSP and Albert Lea.For purely selfish reasons, a train paralleling I-35. Duluth-Saint Paul-Des Moines-Osceloa-Kansas City. No idea if there is a rail footprint in place though.
Mark
The other north/south route that has a lot of merit is Texas to Colorado. As someone else pointed out there is an absence of north south connections west of Chicago and NOL.
George, following the routes of least resistance, I would modify your route selections like this. Once you get to Kansas City just follow the Heartland Flyer route on the BNSF to Fort Worth. At that point you have the option of continuing on the BNSF through Temple to Houston via the old Lone Star Route/Texas Chief route or going to Dallas and continuing to Houston on the BNSF former B-RI route which is much shorter than the SP through Hearne and College Station and in better shape. The train would just be an extension of the current Heartland Flyer which if it continued on to KC would just about connect with the SWC. I agree on through cars to and from Chicago to Texas and through cars from MSP to LAX.A revised Twin Star Rocket would be a very good idea for a north south mid country route. The one catch is that it would be all UPRR. A quick skim through employee timetables as of 2006 - 2007 (they were legitimately on-line for a while) says that all this is signaled, most of it CTC. Much of it also has a freight train speed limit of 60 mph, with most of the rest at 50 mph, with of course the expected speed restrictions for towns, curves, etc. Thus, it appears that very little work would be necessary to achieve the passenger train speeds from the late 1950's.Mark, for both you and 'exiled' the former Rock Island 'Twin Star Rocket' ran on this route between Houston, DFW, Kansas City and of course the twin cities until the 1960's when the Rock's financial problems pretty much killed all it's passenger trains. The train ran between the Lone Star State and the North Star State, hence the name. Today you could duplicate that route by just extending the Heartland Flyer north to Kansas City and the twin cities and south to Houston.There is a very straight-shot rail footprint in place. BNSF Duluth-MSP, then UP from MSP to Kansas City. The UP "Spine Line" is a secondary main with maximum speeds of 40-50 mph and slow speed restrictions through towns. I went to college in Northfield,MN and often wished there was a train on this route, at least between MSP and Albert Lea.For purely selfish reasons, a train paralleling I-35. Duluth-Saint Paul-Des Moines-Osceloa-Kansas City. No idea if there is a rail footprint in place though.
Mark
The other north/south route that has a lot of merit is Texas to Colorado. As someone else pointed out there is an absence of north south connections west of Chicago and NOL.
We would have:
ex-Rock Island St. Paul to Kansas City: 490.7 miles, 10 hours
ex-MKT Kansas City to Ft. Worth: 505.6 miles, 10 to 10.5 hours.
ex-MoPac Ft. Worth to Dallas, 35.5 miles (Tower 55 to SP Jct.), 1 hour sun time plus stops at both ends
ex-SP Dallas to Hearne, 140.5 miles, call it 2h45m. Beyond here it is alittle confused due to track combinations
ex-MoPac? Hearne to Navasota: 50.3 miles, call it 1h15m
two routes possible from here:
1. ex SP route via hempstead & Eureka, 69.2 miles, 1.5 hours or
2. ex MoPac via Spring, 71.7 miles, say same 1.5 hours.
We get call it 1295 miles in total and 26 hours.
One very useful thing that could be done with this is to have a car swap at Kansas City with the Southwest Chief, giving through sservice from both MSP and CHI to Houston and Los angeles.
Maybe Amtrak headquarters should be moved from PhiladelphiaWashington DC to somewhere like Ft. Worth or Denver, or Fargo ND. that way they might realize that there is someting in between the coasts other than "flyover" country.Amtrak just has no vision and no interest in long distance routes or service in the midwest and west. It's all NEC or state support now.
Correct. Those couplers are there so that it is possible to tow one of these puppies out of say the Hudson Tunnels after it manages to stall or fail inside. Without couplers how would you pull them out?The trains can indeed be connected via the coupler under the shroud on the nose of the power car.??WHY can't they be connected??? The DO have knuckles under the "bumpers" on the power units, so they just open them (they're hinged) and connect like any other cars...I agree in principle. Though this will require OHE electrification of the New York - Albany route, and of course the current Acela sets cannot be run in connected pairs.
However, and I'm not sure if this was just a design flaw or intentional, any trains coupled like that can only operate at a speed of something like 10 to 15 MPH. At higher speeds the coupler will tear into the nose cone going around curves.
Additionally, I don't believe that they have any connections for MU cables, which would make it impossible to operate a combined trainset normally.
Amtrak is headquartered in Philadelphia? Never knew that. Learn something new every day. Silly me always thought it was headquartered in Washington DC. Oh well....Maybe Amtrak headquarters should be moved from Philadelphia to somewhere like Ft. Worth or Denver, or Fargo ND. that way they might realize that there is someting in between the coasts other than "flyover" country.Amtrak just has no vision and no interest in long distance routes or service in the midwest and west. It's all NEC or state support now.
Jis, just my opinion of course, but an organization needs inovative and forward thinking leadership as well as political support. Which comes first? Amtrak has had great leaders in the past and made progress during those years because that leadership could get the things it wanted from Congress regardless of the political winds. Right now a golden opportunity is being squandered because Amtrak had no plans for the future other than hunkering down. How do you get support from States and state governments? By providing little or no service? State leaders only know what they see in place. They are not transportation experts. It's a situation of 'show me the beef'. They will get on board when they see something that works and that the public supports. Amtrak at one time was trying to expand into new markets with new trains and service. Now they are just holding the line or retrenching. If you read their new doctrine, it is concentrated on State supported medium and short distance trains and the NEC. Most of this thread has been in the realm of long distance service which is sadly lacking in a country as large as the United States. I for one don't believe in giving in to the naysayers and nimby's that think passenger rail belongs with the stage coach. I think long distance trains have a role to play and could be successful if given a chance. I keep reading on here that people just can't get reservations for sleeper space and even coach as far away as next summer. If Amtrak had the equipment to service these trains properly they could sell many more tickets as these trains are usually sold out. Some of these long lonely routes could actually support two trains a day now because of the demand. As fuel costs continue to escalate and toll roads come into existance more and more and flying becomes even more of a hassle, rail can't help but succeed. Rail of any kind has high fixed costs. These costs have to be spread over a much larger revenue base for passenger rail to succeed. Amtrak hauls just around 28 million passengers a year and has little or no capacity to haul more. Domestic airlines haul 618 million. That is the market you are dealing with.More seriously Amtrak has precious little in the way of administrative and control center in Philly. They are in the process of moving the Philly CETC to Wilmington. CNOC is already in Wilmington.Maybe Amtrak headquarters should be moved from Philadelphia to somewhere like Ft. Worth or Denver, or Fargo ND. that way they might realize that there is someting in between the coasts other than "flyover" country.Amtrak just has no vision and no interest in long distance routes or service in the midwest and west. It's all NEC or state support now.
BTW, is it Amtrak or the political leadership of the country that ultimately determines what Amtrak is interested in? It is true that Amtrak has not been given overwhelming support for vast expansion of the LD services. OTOH, they have nor been required to discontinue them, and Amtrak management has fought mightily against such push when it has come (there are exceptions too). Afterall they are not ordering the Viewliners for regional service, and their fleet plan includes replacement and significant growth of rolling stock for western LD service too. Questions is, are our representatives going to provide the necessary funding for all that? Why blame Amtrak for our own collective follies at the end of the day?
I knew that. Duuuuhhh. What can I say? Late night brain spasm. No excuses, sir.Amtrak is headquartered in Philadelphia? Never knew that. Learn something new every day. Silly me always thought it was headquartered in Washington DC. Oh well....Maybe Amtrak headquarters should be moved from Philadelphia to somewhere like Ft. Worth or Denver, or Fargo ND. that way they might realize that there is someting in between the coasts other than "flyover" country.Amtrak just has no vision and no interest in long distance routes or service in the midwest and west. It's all NEC or state support now.
Just checked.... somehow Amtrak thinks their HQ is at: 60 Massachusetts Ave NE Washington, DC 20002-4285. But of course even they could be wrong.
Actually I agree with a lot of the points you make. But I would observe that providing solution for that problem was never Amtrak's charter and it is not today either. Amtrak's charter was to take the passenger trains off of the backs of the freight railroads, keep them running for a while and apparently slowly fade away. That charter has not changed, and the only thing that has happened is that Amtrak has survived against all odds, basically flouting its original charter, and continues to do so quite effectively.Jis, just my opinion of course, but an organization needs inovative and forward thinking leadership as well as political support. Which comes first? Amtrak has had great leaders in the past and made progress during those years because that leadership could get the things it wanted from Congress regardless of the political winds. Right now a golden opportunity is being squandered because Amtrak had no plans for the future other than hunkering down. How do you get support from States and state governments? By providing little or no service? State leaders only know what they see in place. They are not transportation experts. It's a situation of 'show me the beef'. They will get on board when they see something that works and that the public supports. Amtrak at one time was trying to expand into new markets with new trains and service. Now they are just holding the line or retrenching. If you read their new doctrine, it is concentrated on State supported medium and short distance trains and the NEC. Most of this thread has been in the realm of long distance service which is sadly lacking in a country as large as the United States. I for one don't believe in giving in to the naysayers and nimby's that think passenger rail belongs with the stage coach. I think long distance trains have a role to play and could be successful if given a chance. I keep reading on here that people just can't get reservations for sleeper space and even coach as far away as next summer. If Amtrak had the equipment to service these trains properly they could sell many more tickets as these trains are usually sold out. Some of these long lonely routes could actually support two trains a day now because of the demand. As fuel costs continue to escalate and toll roads come into existance more and more and flying becomes even more of a hassle, rail can't help but succeed. Rail of any kind has high fixed costs. These costs have to be spread over a much larger revenue base for passenger rail to succeed. Amtrak hauls just around 28 million passengers a year and has little or no capacity to haul more. Domestic airlines haul 618 million. That is the market you are dealing with.
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