No more charters & special moves: 3/28/18 Memo fr Anderson

[railiner]

It's good to hear that some of the younger generation are into railfanning activities. Most of the transportation related fan groups I have been a member of, whether it be land, sea, or air...

in the last few years seemed to have an older and older demographic, and losing members thru natural 'attrition'. It seems that the younger generation's are more into their electronic devices, than in preserving transportation history, with a few exception's, of course...

 

[bretton88]

You can look to the ski industry to see what b is happening. As the liability insurance required has become greater, the cost of the insurance has gone through the roof, putting a lot of small areas out of business. Because of this, the number of underwriters selling policies big enough has shrunk, so less competition to sell those policies. Amtrak basically looked at the rising liability potential and said "we don't want to be your liability insurance anymore, without a hefty compensation." Just like the with the ski areas, the suddenly increased insurance costs are going to put a lot of smaller players out of business or driven to consolidation.

 

[RichardWSnow]

One aspect of private cars that has not been mentioned in this thread is that they can cause delays at stops other than those at which they are added or removed. Specifically, I'm referring to Denver. A few years back I was on the CZ, and we were pulling 3 private cars. At Denver the platform is not long enough to accommodate the CZ with 3 private cars. We had to back onto a track and drop off the private cars, then continue with the normal backing operation onto the platform track to load/unload passengers. After leaving the platform, we had to again back onto the track containing the private cars to pick them up. Each operation with the private cars took about 45 minutes, so we lost about an hour and a half total. I realize this may be uniquely due to the number of private cars, and perhaps the extra backing operations are not required for one or two private cars. Also, other stub-end terminals may have long enough platform tracks that three (or more) private cars can be accommodated.

 

[Seaboard92]

Part of the problem with the private cars and delays comes down to Amtrak. A lot of crews never have to switch so they aren't doing used to doing it and can't do it rapidly. And with some small changes in policies you could speed this up. The crews in HUN are so used to PVs that they can be into the next stop on time or within five minutes. But it was a PV base till Anderson.

Denver actually has a platform restriction now on how many cars you can have on one train. I forget what the number is.

 

[cpotisch]

Part of the problem with the private cars and delays comes down to Amtrak. A lot of crews never have to switch so they aren't doing used to doing it and can't do it rapidly. And with some small changes in policies you could speed this up. The crews in HUN are so used to PVs that they can be into the next stop on time or within five minutes. But it was a PV base till Anderson.

Denver actually has a platform restriction now on how many cars you can have on one train. I forget what the number is.

I'm in favor of PVs, but I can't really say that ALL the blame is on Amtrak. If there are several cars hooked onto the back of a CZ, it can definitely be the case that no matter what Amtrak does, they need to do a bunch of stoppin' and shuntin'. And that definitely can hold up the train and its passengers, no matter what Amtrak does.

 

[neroden]

One aspect of private cars that has not been mentioned in this thread is that they can cause delays at stops other than those at which they are added or removed. Specifically, I'm referring to Denver. A few years back I was on the CZ, and we were pulling 3 private cars. At Denver the platform is not long enough to accommodate the CZ with 3 private cars.

Assuming the private cars aren't actually going to Denver, put the private cars on the head end. Problem solved.

 

[Seaboard92]

One aspect of private cars that has not been mentioned in this thread is that they can cause delays at stops other than those at which they are added or removed. Specifically, I'm referring to Denver. A few years back I was on the CZ, and we were pulling 3 private cars. At Denver the platform is not long enough to accommodate the CZ with 3 private cars.

Assuming the private cars aren't actually going to Denver, put the private cars on the head end. Problem solved.

One of the weirdest moves I've worked on. We had one PV on the front of the train, the Amtrak consist, then two on the rear. Of course it made it easier for switching.

 

[CHvision]

I see the edit now....

Yeah I'm sure #261 has looked into it. They are true miracle workers up there. If anyone can figure it out, if will be them!

Anybody know how UP handles the Frontier Days and Museum trips each year? Maybe the passenger coverage is lumped into the steam coverage they carry for #844

#261 made an edit from their excursion as "Windy City". 3 of their cars hooked on the Empire Builder. The arrival is not a full guarantee though.

 

[Seaboard92]

It now looks like former Amtrak CEO and Norfolk Southern Chairman Wick Moorman and owner of the Pennsylvania E Units Bennet Levin are working on a legislative solution.

From what I can infer from the bottom of the article announcing their new partnership they are working on a solution to cease the need of using Amtrak for Insurance. Now what this means I do not know. But it looks like it might be the plan I proposed of having the government provide affordable excursion insurance to all operators nationwide. Thus removing the barriers to enter the market. And giving us a freer market to operate in.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/05/10-new-effort-will-focus-on-restoration-of-famed-pennsylvania-railroad-k4s-no-1361

 

[jis]

It now looks like former Amtrak CEO and Norfolk Southern Chairman Wick Moorman and owner of the Pennsylvania E Units Bennet Levin are working on a legislative solution.

From what I can infer from the bottom of the article announcing their new partnership they are working on a solution to cease the need of using Amtrak for Insurance. Now what this means I do not know. But it looks like it might be the plan I proposed of having the government provide affordable excursion insurance to all operators nationwide. Thus removing the barriers to enter the market. And giving us a freer market to operate in.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/05/10-new-effort-will-focus-on-restoration-of-famed-pennsylvania-railroad-k4s-no-1361

That is very good news indeed! Hope the legislative change goes through successfully. Unburdening Amtrak of all these extraneous obligations will be good for all concerned. I suspect even the likes of Anderson would be delighted.

 

[Seaboard92]

I think all of us could be happy with this as a solution. I mean we still have the need to fix the private car set offs and pick ups. As that will still make a lot of charters non viable. But it's a major start in the right direction.

I find it funny however when I proposed that to my people I work with in the industry the people were still laughing when I left the room. But now everyone is on board with it.

If anyone can be successful it's Bennet he has managed to save the industry more times than most people know. While he is a polarizing figure he could do some good. And when he finally retires it'll be a sad day.

 

[Trogdor]

Serious question: our government cant even provide adequate health insurance for the citizens of this country. Why should it be providing insurance for steam locomotives and private railcar operators?

 

[Ryan]

While I agree in principle, we should do the good things that we are capable of, and not let our shortcomings in other areas penalize us.

I agree that we should prioritize health care over fun train rides, but it isn’t like not doing this is going to enlighten 51% of our policy makers.

 

[Seaboard92]

I think we should do healthcare as well. But there is the fact that in five years time charters have contributed 85 million to the economy in an indirect method. Basically by passengers, crews, and fans making lodging, food, gas, and gift purchases in generally economically depressed towns.

So actually it does a lot for small town America thus making it worthy. The economic impact of health care however I would say indirectly be in the trillions of dollar range but it is too much a political powder keg to actually get accomplished.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

There should be an affordable way to move private passenger cars over America's railroad infrustructure. If Amtrak was providing that, fine. But if Amtrak doesn't provide it I think someone should.

Glad to hear there are good people looking in to this! Maybe we will end up with something better. Heck, even if steam excursions end up with an e-8 behind them vs. an Amtrak Englne that's a win! (that's a joke... Partially)

 

[cpotisch]

One of the weirdest moves I've worked on. We had one PV on the front of the train, the Amtrak consist, then two on the rear. Of course it made it easier for switching.

Don't PV owners usually try put their cars on the rear, to reduce wear and tear?

 

[neroden]

It now looks like former Amtrak CEO and Norfolk Southern Chairman Wick Moorman and owner of the Pennsylvania E Units Bennet Levin are working on a legislative solution.

From what I can infer from the bottom of the article announcing their new partnership they are working on a solution to cease the need of using Amtrak for Insurance. Now what this means I do not know. But it looks like it might be the plan I proposed of having the government provide affordable excursion insurance to all operators nationwide. Thus removing the barriers to enter the market. And giving us a freer market to operate in.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/05/10-new-effort-will-focus-on-restoration-of-famed-pennsylvania-railroad-k4s-no-1361

Good for Wick. He's a good guy.

 

[cpotisch]

It now looks like former Amtrak CEO and Norfolk Southern Chairman Wick Moorman and owner of the Pennsylvania E Units Bennet Levin are working on a legislative solution.

From what I can infer from the bottom of the article announcing their new partnership they are working on a solution to cease the need of using Amtrak for Insurance. Now what this means I do not know. But it looks like it might be the plan I proposed of having the government provide affordable excursion insurance to all operators nationwide. Thus removing the barriers to enter the market. And giving us a freer market to operate in.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2018/05/10-new-effort-will-focus-on-restoration-of-famed-pennsylvania-railroad-k4s-no-1361

Good for Wick. He's a good guy.

It's funny that Wick, who has a relatively insignificant role at Amtrak now, has been doing so much work for PVs and charters lately. Anderson must hate him.

 

[jis]

Wick owns a PV. What do you expect? Why would Anderson care as long as he either does not have to deal with PVs or is adequately compensated to his satisfaction? I doubt these things are personal at all.

 

[Seaboard92]

One of the weirdest moves I've worked on. We had one PV on the front of the train, the Amtrak consist, then two on the rear. Of course it made it easier for switching.

Don't PV owners usually try put their cars on the rear, to reduce wear and tear?

I think it's more because it's easier for switching then anything else. That and a lot of PV owners own tail cars such as observations, of office cars with an open vestibule.

 

[Ryan]

When I get rich and have a PV with an open porch, I'm putting it on the front of the train open porch first.

I'll get a toy control stand and pretend I'm the engineer.

Just have to watch out for those grade crossings.

 

[cpotisch]

When I get rich and have a PV with an open porch, I'm putting it on the front of the train open porch first.

I'll get a toy control stand and pretend I'm the engineer.

Just have to watch out for those grade crossings.

I decided a couple years ago that when I grow up, instead of buying a house, I'll just buy an old dining car and sleeper instead.

 

[Seaboard92]

When I get rich and have a PV with an open porch, I'm putting it on the front of the train open porch first.

I'll get a toy control stand and pretend I'm the engineer.

Just have to watch out for those grade crossings.

I decided a couple years ago that when I grow up, instead of buying a house, I'll just buy an old dining car and sleeper instead.

You really just need one car to make a decent little house. Three bedrooms the size of a VIA prestige room and then a open plan lounge.

 

[jis]

Go for broke. Get one of the HiLiners (ex-Santa Fe El Cap) cars, and rearrange the furnishing in it - Kitchen, laundry etc, downstairs, and Bedroom, Drawing Room, Dining Room upstairs

 

[cpotisch]

Go for broke. Get one of the HiLiners (ex-Santa Fe El Cap) cars, and rearrange the furnishing in it - Kitchen, laundry etc, downstairs, and Bedroom, Drawing Room, Dining Room upstairs

The thing is, I would want the layout to be more-or-less original, so if I have a diner (could be a Hi-Level) and a Sleeper, I have all the facilities of a house, without changing much! To be clear, I'm probably not going to actually buy one or two vintage train cars instead of a house, but it's nice to dream. But in my old age, who knows...