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Ashphalt and Cement lobby are in a win - win situation no matter whether roads or railroads are built.
My experience in the transportation industry is that road builders know how to design and build train tracks too. If it's infrastructure, they will design and build it.The Asphalt and Cement Lobby is always Big @ State Capitols! Fortunes are made in most states on this Pork!!! :help:
:hi: Excellent Point about Pork! But in my State, (Texas) they get more than their Fair Share while Rail sort of is a StepChild! (We miss Kay Bailey the Amtrak/Rail Friendly Senator from Texas!)My experience in the transportation industry is that road builders know how to design and build train tracks too. If it's infrastructure, they will design and build it.The Asphalt and Cement Lobby is always Big @ State Capitols! Fortunes are made in most states on this Pork!!! :help:
Pork = the other guy's pet project.
A lot of mistakes were made on that project, but putting the Madison stop downtown was not one of them. Not having a downtown stop would have been the biggest mistake possible, and would have doomed the project to failure. There is absolutely nothing at or near the Madison Airport, and the airport itself doesn't have any airline service that couldn't be more easily served from Milwaukee (an existing rail stop). This basically means that everybody who wanted to go anywhere in Madison would have to find alternate transportation to get to the train. Once you throw in that connection, you've eliminated all of the speed advantage of the train vs. driving or taking the bus into Madison (meaning people going to the capitol, or to the University, would have no incentive to take the train).The train situation in Wisconsin was polluted with Gov Jim Doyle handed out no-bid contracts for Talgo trainsets and tried to lock the project into place before the 2010 election. The proposed Milw-Madison section of HSR, which was to be the opening segment of a CHI-MSP line was sold to Madison folks as a commuter rail project, thus they demanded a stop in downtown Madison, rather than the Madison airport -- which would have resulted in a backing out movement to rejoin the main track.
Pay careful attention. The MnDOT proposal runs to St. Cloud. That gets you a long string of towns from La Crescent to St. Cloud. Duluth can be promised that "Northern Lights Express comes next, really".What evidence is there of any interest in a second St. Paul-Chicago frequency in the Minnesota state house? Sure there was a study, but studies are where initiatives go to die. I could take you to the Legislative Library and show you stacks of studies that went nowhere. (My favorite: the St. Paul Peoplemover.) I don't see much appetite for a project that would be seen as benefiting Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Wisconsin, with nothing for outstate or the suburbs.
Does the state government of Wisconsin, under the leadership of Scott Walker, hate intercity rail or love it? Lately, it’s been difficult to tell.
The Hiawatha Line between Milwaukee and Chicago is breaking ridership records, but Madison is being left out thanks to what James Rowen calls a partisan "cudgel against cities."
Just a few years ago, the newly elected Walker rejected some $810 million in federal money to expand passenger rail to the capital city of Madison. Now, all of a sudden, Wisconsin DOT is in talks with Amtrak to expand service between Milwaukee and Chicago and points beyond. Why the change in attitude?
James Rowen at the Political Environment says Madison got left behind because of the worst kind of partisan decision making:
Killing the train was really all about sticking it to Madison, denying a Democratic city a transportation option for tourists, students, business officials and university researchers.
Though some Amtrak improvements will take place in Wisconsin, Republican Scott Walker was not going to allow out-going Democratic Governor Jim Doyle to get any credit, or Madison receive any economic benefit from modern train service.
Jim Rowen is an ardent partisan. Take his viewpoint for what it's worth, which isn't much because he leaves out how Madison was making the original project much more costly and time-consuming than the original proposal.Why Was Madison Left Out of the Midwest Rail Boom?
Does the state government of Wisconsin, under the leadership of Scott Walker, hate intercity rail or love it? Lately, it’s been difficult to tell.
The Hiawatha Line between Milwaukee and Chicago is breaking ridership records, but Madison is being left out thanks to what James Rowen calls a partisan "cudgel against cities."
Just a few years ago, the newly elected Walker rejected some $810 million in federal money to expand passenger rail to the capital city of Madison. Now, all of a sudden, Wisconsin DOT is in talks with Amtrak to expand service between Milwaukee and Chicago and points beyond. Why the change in attitude?
James Rowen at the Political Environment says Madison got left behind because of the worst kind of partisan decision making:
Killing the train was really all about sticking it to Madison, denying a Democratic city a transportation option for tourists, students, business officials and university researchers.
Though some Amtrak improvements will take place in Wisconsin, Republican Scott Walker was not going to allow out-going Democratic Governor Jim Doyle to get any credit, or Madison receive any economic benefit from modern train service.
Unfortunately the Lunatic Fringe and Rightwing Politicians have adopted an Anti-Rail Stance as a Talking Point and Campaign Issue, its almost like there is a Playbook for Wingnut Politicians since they all sound like Parrots repeating what their Masters tell them will work! Their Rail Plan is to sell off the NEC and let Amtrak die on the Vine! you could look it up as Casey Stengel used to say! :help:I don't pretend to know much about WI politics, and it's been over thirty years since I lived in MN briefly. But what saddens me is how passenger rail has recently been turned into a partisan issue. Only five or ten years ago, trains had much more bipartisan support. Let's hope the partisanship about rail is an aberration, and we can get back to supporting trains where they're needed.
Rather than just ad hom the guy, how about you present some facts that contradict his argument?Jim Rowen is an ardent partisan. Take his viewpoint for what it's worth, which isn't much because he leaves out how Madison was making the original project much more costly and time-consuming than the original proposal.
There have been some very bad rail projects pushed in Wisconsin that have poisoned the well coupled with some other very bad policy decisions by the same politicians pushing for the rail projects. Outlandish project studies that claim in effect that eleventy gigillion people will ride and it won't cost a more than $1.50 to build and will produce gazillions of dollars of development have done more than their fair share to make people wary train projects. As discussed on other threads, I have stated that a bad rail project/proposal is worse than no rail project/proposal. Enhanced Hiawatha is the best project proposed in Wisconsin in decades and it will find a broad support because there is proven success.Unfortunately the Lunatic Fringe and Rightwing Politicians have adopted an Anti-Rail Stance as a Talking Point and Campaign Issue, its almost like there is a Playbook for Wingnut Politicians since they all sound like Parrots repeating what their Masters tell them will work! Their Rail Plan is to sell off the NEC and let Amtrak die on the Vine! you could look it up as Casey Stengel used to say! :help:I don't pretend to know much about WI politics, and it's been over thirty years since I lived in MN briefly. But what saddens me is how passenger rail has recently been turned into a partisan issue. Only five or ten years ago, trains had much more bipartisan support. Let's hope the partisanship about rail is an aberration, and we can get back to supporting trains where they're needed.
If you type in a certain combination of Ws, Gs and Os you can find out some stuff too. But here is the partisan position from the other perspective. http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2010/10/citizens-guide-to-high-speed-rail-construction-debate-2/Rather than just ad hom the guy, how about you present some facts that contradict his argument?Jim Rowen is an ardent partisan. Take his viewpoint for what it's worth, which isn't much because he leaves out how Madison was making the original project much more costly and time-consuming than the original proposal.
I don't disagree with your points but will point out that this is True about almost ALL Political Schemes, as someone said Pork= somebody elses project! I'm talking about the anti-rail rhetoric that seems to be a staple of right wing political blather!There have been some very bad rail projects pushed in Wisconsin that have poisoned the well coupled with some other very bad policy decisions by the same politicians pushing for the rail projects. Outlandish project studies that claim in effect that eleventy gigillion people will ride and it won't cost a more than $1.50 to build and will produce gazillions of dollars of development have done more than their fair share to make people wary train projects. As discussed on other threads, I have stated that a bad rail project/proposal is worse than no rail project/proposal. Enhanced Hiawatha is the best project proposed in Wisconsin in decades and it will find a broad support because there is proven success.Unfortunately the Lunatic Fringe and Rightwing Politicians have adopted an Anti-Rail Stance as a Talking Point and Campaign Issue, its almost like there is a Playbook for Wingnut Politicians since they all sound like Parrots repeating what their Masters tell them will work! Their Rail Plan is to sell off the NEC and let Amtrak die on the Vine! you could look it up as Casey Stengel used to say! :help:I don't pretend to know much about WI politics, and it's been over thirty years since I lived in MN briefly. But what saddens me is how passenger rail has recently been turned into a partisan issue. Only five or ten years ago, trains had much more bipartisan support. Let's hope the partisanship about rail is an aberration, and we can get back to supporting trains where they're needed.
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