Amtrak's Full Dome

[abcnews]

Also - there may be an announcement soon regarding an upscale Luxury train that will provide service from Washington, DC to White Sulfur Springs WV (The Greenbriar Express) with dome cars and vintage diners serving 5 star meals. A private venture - not Amtrak, using the same route as the Cardinal.

It's a perfect route for a dome - I think that line from DC to WV is so scenic...

From Culpepper to CVS is horse country - open pastures, rolling hills with the Blue Ridge in the distance. Then crossing the Blue Ridge Mountains with spectacular Rockfish Gap views... then The Shenandoah Valley and Augusta County, VA (looks like Montana), and then crossing the crest of the Allegheny near Moss Run VA. Imagine riding in a refurbished dome car....

 

[the_traveler]

I'm not quite of "a certain age" (like some here

), but I have rode on many Budd domes on the Adirondack in the 1970's. I prefer the short domes over the full domes, mainly because the short domes had all forward facing seats. The Great Dome had seats facing all directions (including back to the window) and tables also!

And who said you couldn"t "hog" the front row of the short dome to take photos?

I did!

But then again in the 1970's, there were usually no more then 5 people up there at a time (if that many)!

And this was when the Budd domes ran on every train - 7 days a week!

 

[Big Iron]

having ridden in a full dome and a "regular" dome.. the full dome is over rated. That being said, its all we've got so bring it on. But seriously the smaller domes are much ter. BTW, are they planning on using it on the Adirondack between Mtl & Albany this fall like they've been doing the last few seasons?

Not having ridden in the Great Dome, but many times in Budd domes, I would be very interested in your thoughts on the comparisson between the two.

The smaller domes offered much greater visibility. The all forward-facing seating, either 24, or in the case of Santa Fe's luxury swivel seated Pleasure Dome, 18 seats, allowed you to "Look up, down, and all around", in the words of some contemporary brochures of the time. The height of the front and rear windows was better in the small domes than the Great Domes and the Super Domes.

I was among those that got very little sleep having abandoned my comfortable assigned Sleepy Hollow recliner, for the superior visibility of the dome seat on my first transcontinental ride on the old CZ in 1969. :blink:

In the days of my youth I recall riding the B & O Cap Ltd with the dome that had the spotlights that lit up the scenery at night. That was in the waning years of train travel so there was never anyone in there. Same with the single level AMTK Cap Ltd. Never had a problem getting a front row seat. What amazed me the most was the folks sitting in the coach section of the dome appearing oblivious to the wonders that laid a few steps away.

 

[printman2000]

I also saw it at CUS yesterday, and got a great photo on the way out while aboard a stopped Texas Eagle directly next to it. It looks beautiful!

Share?

 

[The Davy Crockett]

In the days of my youth I recall riding the B & O Cap Ltd with the dome that had the spotlights that lit up the scenery at night. That was in the waning years of train travel so there was never anyone in there.

I do as well. I only rode it r/t once, but remember on the way to Chicago from WAS that, other than some 'romantic' couples who would take a couple of seats in the back for a spell, my Dad and I were the only ones in it at night. We had coach seats, but spent all our time in the dome, only coming down for some "made from scratch" meals served on B&O china in the DC. Sigh...

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

In the days of my youth I recall riding the B & O Cap Ltd with the dome that had the spotlights that lit up the scenery at night. That was in the waning years of train travel so there was never anyone in there.

I do as well. I only rode it r/t once, but remember on the way to Chicago from WAS that, other than some 'romantic' couples who would take a couple of seats in the back for a spell, my Dad and I were the only ones in it at night. We had coach seats, but spent all our time in the dome, only coming down for some "made from scratch" meals served on B&O china in the DC. Sigh...

Sounds fantastic Davey. There is something magical and something hypnotic about riding in a dome in the dark of night. I am glad for you and your father that you were able to sit up there so long.

 

[railiner]

In the days of my youth I recall riding the B & O Cap Ltd with the dome that had the spotlights that lit up the scenery at night. That was in the waning years of train travel so there was never anyone in there.

I do as well. I only rode it r/t once, but remember on the way to Chicago from WAS that, other than some 'romantic' couples who would take a couple of seats in the back for a spell, my Dad and I were the only ones in it at night. We had coach seats, but spent all our time in the dome, only coming down for some "made from scratch" meals served on B&O china in the DC. Sigh...

Sounds fantastic Davey. There is something magical and something hypnotic about riding in a dome in the dark of night. I am glad for you and your father that you were able to sit up there so long.

Hypnotic, indeed. I was 'mesmerized' over many miles on the old "Q" ("Overnight, Every Night"), blazing across the plains of Nebraska. Those elegant 'E's Mars Headlites and their sweeping figure '8' beams, as well as the signals shimmering in the heat of the engine exhaust....

My most memorable Amtrak dome coach ride was on the 'River Cities' that ran from Kansas City via St. Louis to Carbondale, where it combined with the City of New Orleans.

The portion from St. Louis to Carbondale would consist of just an F40PH and the single dome coach (not sure if there was a baggage car). Needless to say, the horn was LOUD over all those grade crossings!

 

[Amtrak839]

The dome has been repainted. It's in phase 3 though, not phase 2. Friend of mine passed through the CHI yards on 29 this morning and just happened to catch part of the dome in a picture of the Chicago skyline.

 

[rtabern]

Btw, I've ridden it on the back of the old Superliner Cardinal, and we agreed that it doesn't beat an SSL on a Superliner consist, unless in the front. The SSL is a remarkably well put together car, and if you take away being able to see over the train, it really cannot be beaten.

Agreed. I rode the Cardinal twice.

The first time was in December 2007) between CHI-NYP... and we had the regular consist of coaches, dinette, and 1 sleeper. I went in the sleeper, which was nice, but was not very pleased with the lack of "lounge" space. There were just a couple of tables in half the dinette... and they seemed to be taken up by the same people playing cards the whole way east. So, it was basically sit in my room the whole time except meal times. And, at lunch, I met some interesting folks at the table I'd like to talk with longer... but they were in coach and I was in the sleeper. It would have been awkward to invite them back to my room... but coach was almost at capacity... so no where to sit and carry on the conversation. Even though #50 is beautiful going through the New River Gorge... I decided I'd probably never do the Cardinal again.

Well, that changed in October & November when they put the Dome on. I did one trip east on #50 and one trip west on #51... and let me tell you... it made a world of difference!!! Besides being a huge fan of the Great Dome #10031... it was nice to have the lounge space. I would definetly do the Cardinal everytime I had to go east if Amtrak sticks to the proposal to bring domes back to the Cardinal.

I opted to the Dome on the Cardinal instead of the Adirondack... to get more time in the Dome... to ride out of my hometown of Chicago in the Dome... and to be up there at night watching all the signals changing through NW Indiana.

I have 2 vacation days and am hoping they bring it back to #50 and #51. I might do it on #68 or #69, but would rather do it out of Chicago.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Also - there may be an announcement soon regarding an upscale Luxury train that will provide service from Washington, DC to White Sulfur Springs WV (The Greenbriar Express) with dome cars and vintage diners serving 5 star meals. A private venture - not Amtrak, using the same route as the Cardinal.

The "American Orient Express", aka GrandLux Rail, aka American Railway Explorer, is rolling again?

 

[GPSTraveler]

What I want to know is, What the hec happened to the "other" amtrak dome cars? I loved riding the old amtrak Panama Limited pre 1990. It had a fantastic dome car. Is it possible that the Cresent, Silvers, LSL, and Cardinal could be running with one of the old standard (not full) dome coaches that Amtrak used to have, if they still existed? Do they fit inside the New York tunnels? Is this the reason they sold them all? Which Amtrak routes had the dome cars pre 1990?

 

[Ryan]

Indeed, I'm hoping that it runs on the Cardinal again and I'm able to get away to make the trip (at least one way, although a round trip would be great.

Also, had an odd dream about the dome last night - well more correctly it was a really odd dream that the dome played a very small role in. For some reason that I can't recall, I was in Landover (just south of New Carrollton), and there was a covered walkway over the NEC with escalators to take you up and down from the bridge over the track (no such walkway exists in real life). As I was crossing the track I looked down and there were trains parked on the outer tracks, but I could see headlights on the track in the center, so I stood there to watch, and as the train went slowly by (headed towards DC), I saw an AEM-7, leading what looks like the top of an E60, followed by the 10031 dome with a P42 bringing up the rear. Seeing the odd consist, I jumped down to the escalator and found the one spot that I could see through a gap in the parked train. Of course, since the escalator was running down, I had to walk "up the stairs" to maintain my viewing position. I did, and was able to see the consist go by, except the E60 was replaced with the 10002 Corridor Clipper (I guess the fact that the E60s are all gone meant I had to put something more realistic in it's place, like realism was an important concern in my mind). For the record, the P42 was #40 - no idea why I remember that (nor why I didn't get the number off the AEM-7 so that I'd have the car numbers for the entire consist). I then vividly recall thinking to myself (in my dream), "I've got to get to a computer and post about this on AU! Nobody's going to believe that I saw the dome headed down the NEC!!!".

Anyhow, that's my story - pretty sure that marks me as completely sick in the head for trains.

 

[jb64]

Anyhow, that's my story - pretty sure that marks me as completely sick in the head for trains.

ummm, yeah. But at least you have this site where you can actually talk about it.

 

[Larry H.]

I think domes are one of the most alluring features of rail travel. I also somewhat feel that the smaller domes with their face forward seating provided a more interesting view of upcoming scenery and also what your passing below. I really appreciated the fact that at night most lines turned off all but some floor lights so that a unrestricted view was possible also at night. Very cool gliding across the countryside at night with the hum of the car below.

As to the various trips, well I had to think about that a bit. Probably the first runs I made in a dome were on the Missouri Pacific St. Louis to Kansas City lines. Followed by the City of St. Louis which at the time combined with the City of Chicago that carried the famous Diner Dome. I never got to eat in it although I was in pullman, but it was something to see. Those City trains carried several domes on most runs. The Panama Limited and later the Amtrak City of New Orleans used the small domes at times. I also rode the Canadian National across Canada from Toronto to Vancouver which carried numerous large and small domes cars. The original Empire Builder had a number of domes as well. The Empire builder pre Amtrak surely was one of the great trains as for as imaginative interiors went. If I recall correctly the Blue Bird or the Wabash Cannon Ball also carried domes both of which I rode at some time. The Cardinal was a really interesting ride when it was in the small dome consist that preceded the super-liner equipment.

I also miss the ability to turn the seats to face various views that the new cars have eliminated for the most part.

 

[Gratt]

It would be nice if Amtrak in the future could add a viewliner lounge for eastern LD routs. It could have two versions one with a small dome at the top and one without. Amtrak could rotate them around the lines as they see fit.

Sadly it is just a dream :wub: if Amtrak had money to spend on extra viewliners it should order more sleeper cars, but it is a nice thought.

 

[hmy1]

Well, this thread explains why I haven't seen the dome car on the Pacific Surfliner this summer as in years past.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Well, this thread explains why I haven't seen the dome car on the Pacific Surfliner this summer as in years past.

And I bet that Patrick and Team Whooz have been flooding 60 Mass with e-mails/letters/texts and calls! :help: I want my Dome back on the Left Coast!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Bob Dylan]

Anyhow, that's my story - pretty sure that marks me as completely sick in the head for trains.

ummm, yeah. But at least you have this site where you can actually talk about it.

Did you have a "Dream Camera" with you Ryan? I cant imagine you around a station w/o your camera! :lol: :lol: :lol: And the only cure, as Dave always says, is a Train trip!!!

 

[the_traveler]

It would be nice if Amtrak in the future could add a viewliner lounge for eastern LD routs. It could have two versions one with a small dome at the top and one without. Amtrak could rotate them around the lines as they see fit.

Even if they did build/get domes for the eastern routes, they could only be used north and west of Albany and south and west of WAS. All eastern routes go into NYP, and domes (or Superliners) will not fit thru the Baltimore or New York tunnels! (Actually they will - ONCE - and then be topless!

)

 

[Gratt]

It would be nice if Amtrak in the future could add a viewliner lounge for eastern LD routs. It could have two versions one with a small dome at the top and one without. Amtrak could rotate them around the lines as they see fit.

Even if they did build/get domes for the eastern routes, they could only be used north and west of Albany and south and west of WAS. All eastern routes go into NYP, and domes (or Superliners) will not fit thru the Baltimore or New York tunnels! (Actually they will - ONCE - and then be topless!

)

I know that, though would a railcar with a sheered off dome become a suncar? :lol:

The domes would have to bee switched on and off in ALB and/or WAS. In WAS it would be easier because they switch engines anyways. Though ALB also has plendy of experience switching things.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

It would be nice if Amtrak in the future could add a viewliner lounge for eastern LD routs. It could have two versions one with a small dome at the top and one without. Amtrak could rotate them around the lines as they see fit.

Even if they did build/get domes for the eastern routes, they could only be used north and west of Albany and south and west of WAS. All eastern routes go into NYP, and domes (or Superliners) will not fit thru the Baltimore or New York tunnels! (Actually they will - ONCE - and then be topless!

)

My dream, 'cause that is all it is, would be if WAS - "in the shadow of the Capitol dome" - was where domes would be coupled or uncoupled to all LD overnight pax trains that head south out of WAS - the Silvers, the Crescent and the Cardinal.

Speaking of the Cardinal, I'll be on #50 at the end of October. I don't think it will happen, but I'd sure enjoy a ride in 10031, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed - but that sure makes typing tough. hboy:

 

[Ryan]

Hence the "small dome" - Viewliners are about 14' and change, the MARC bilevels (that fit through the Baltimore tunnels are a little more than 15'6". There's room for a bit of a protrusion, especially if you keep it towards the center of the car body.

 

[Big Iron]

In the days of my youth I recall riding the B & O Cap Ltd with the dome that had the spotlights that lit up the scenery at night. That was in the waning years of train travel so there was never anyone in there.

I do as well. I only rode it r/t once, but remember on the way to Chicago from WAS that, other than some 'romantic' couples who would take a couple of seats in the back for a spell, my Dad and I were the only ones in it at night. We had coach seats, but spent all our time in the dome, only coming down for some "made from scratch" meals served on B&O china in the DC. Sigh...

I was talking with Brenda, the wonderful SCA on the CL. I told her I missed the dome car.......she laughed. She called the dome on the CL the Love Shack due to all of the amorous couples caught in the act.

 

[spidersfan351]

The gentleman with Amtrak who I spoke to had first hand knowledge of Amtrak's attempts to purchase domes for the Card, per the PRIA study plan. He said they were the old American Orient Express domes, but that they were too expensive and needed too much retrofitting of some level. So, it looks like no domes for now - which for me is a bitter disappointment.

Those same domes were actually purchased by the gentleman who is putting together this "Greenbriar Express" from Washington to White Sulphur Springs, so it would seem logical to conclude they will be a part of this. The Amtrak official I spoke to (we talked for probably 5 hours on the Cap!) said he is a big fan of "Amenity Cars", and if the money ever is available, would love to get some Viewliner SSL-kind of cars. We had a great conversation, he was highly knowledgable of just about everything Amtrak, and thanks to this forum and my dad, so was I.

I will try to post the photo soon here.

 

[railiner]

It would be nice if Amtrak in the future could add a viewliner lounge for eastern LD routs. It could have two versions one with a small dome at the top and one without. Amtrak could rotate them around the lines as they see fit.

Even if they did build/get domes for the eastern routes, they could only be used north and west of Albany and south and west of WAS. All eastern routes go into NYP, and domes (or Superliners) will not fit thru the Baltimore or New York tunnels! (Actually they will - ONCE - and then be topless!

)

This brings to mind the only dome experience in the NEC.....the old United Aircraft Turbo Trains. The Penn Central and later Amtrak did run them at first from Grand Central Terminal to Back Bay, and later from Boston South Station to Pennsylvania Station. These little trains had a power dome coach at each end. They afforded true dome visibility, although each dome section had a partition in the center through which the exhaust stacks ran. You faced forward in front rows of seats, and rearward in the aft rows of seats. And the ultimate railfan feature-- if you were in the first row, you could look through a glass partition into the cab and watch the view over the engineers shoulder. The same on the 'fireman's' side.

In regard to dome heights....the "standard" dome height back in those years was 15'10" (over rails), the same as old Hi-Level cars. The ones built for the C&O and B&O were so called 'low profile' domes and were about 6 or 8 inches lower. These had a more restricted forward view. In addition to those, the SP rebuilt some of their own cars into dome cars utilizing a custom dome section supplied to them by Budd. These were unique three quarter length cars that had a bar area at one end at standard floor height with a 'cathedral ceiling' of glass. You then climbed a few steps up to the 'dome seating' remainder of the car, and then a few steps back down at the other end to standard floor height. These had a severly restricted, (think 'mail slot'), forward view. There was no pass through under the dome except a 'crawl space' to access equipment for maintenance. At one time these were the only domes the SP would allow due to their clearances.

The Superliners are 16'2". The double deck dome cars operated by the cruiselines on the Alaska RR are a foot or more taller yet.