arbitrary car closing

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Both crew members, in fact, were directing people to one car and both of them manned the door in one car. Usually, the locomotive stops behind passed the platform to fit all cars at the platform, one conductor is stationed in first car and one in either the second to last or the last one. This time, the train stopped a bit earlier and both conductors were in one car and making sure everybody stays in just that one. The train was also terminating in Philly.

Tomorrow I will take your advise about Customer Relations and call and complain. I just want AMTRAK to be aware of this happening - if it's against their policies, then it hurts them. If AMTRAK is OK with that situation, that's their decision.
 
I am so sorry to hear this happened on the Keystone. From PHL to HAR on the Keystone has always been my favorite short train trip, and one thing that makes it nice is that the conductors have always been friendly and pleasant. The ones between New York and PHL on the Keystone can be a little more brusque and businesslike, but they've always been professional.
 
Barciur said:
Both crew members, in fact, were directing people to one car and both of them manned the door in one car. Usually, the locomotive stops behind passed the platform to fit all cars at the platform, one conductor is stationed in first car and one in either the second to last or the last one. This time, the train stopped a bit earlier and both conductors were in one car and making sure everybody stays in just that one. The train was also terminating in Philly.

Tomorrow I will take your advise about Customer Relations and call and complain. I just want AMTRAK to be aware of this happening - if it's against their policies, then it hurts them. If AMTRAK is OK with that situation, that's their decision.
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i can't find any policy in the Blue Book that all cars have to be open.
 
Doesn't look like Amtrak has a specific policy requiring all cars be open to passengers, only that all vestibule end doors remain unlocked for crew access. (at least this crew didn't drop the bars) In CA, I believe the state requires the Surfliners (and maybe the other two) to have all cars open for seating. Maybe PA should have a similar practice...

As for complaining, you were advertised a quiet car and didn't receive one. Pretty legitimate in my opinion.
 
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If the Heartland Flyer is running a light load, the Conductors will often keep folks in just 2 of the 3 cars, usually with through pax in one and "locals" in the other. And often when this happens, there is still plenty of room for single pax to stretch out.
 
On the Texas Eagle on #421/#422 days the LAX cutout Sleeper ( carried in front between SAS and CHI as the only Revenue Sleeper) and Coach are, for most of the year, usually fairly full or even Sold Out, while the Third Coach, on days there is such a car on the Texas Eagle, is often closed off and deadheaded!
 
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TheTuck said:
Doesn't look like Amtrak has a specific policy requiring all cars be open to passengers, only that all vestibule end doors remain unlocked for crew access. (at least this crew didn't drop the bars) In CA, I believe the state requires the Surfliners (and maybe the other two) to have all cars open for seating. Maybe PA should have a similar practice...

As for complaining, you were advertised a quiet car and didn't receive one. Pretty legitimate in my opinion.
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I can't remember if it was the PacSurf or Metrolink, but on one of those (I'm pretty sure it was the PacSurf) when the train was in Push mode, they closed off the front car "For the safety of the driver".

There's another thread lingering around out there talking about how there is one attendand per three single level cars. There should be no excuse to prevent passengers from spreading out on the Keystone. If they are trying to preserve crew, select a destination, close off all but THREE cars (one being the quiet car), don't sit pax in the cars that will close who will have to move, and provide excellent customer experience.
 
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Corridor trains such as the Keystone don't have coach attendants, which is what the other thread is discussing.

Preserving staff doesn't have anything to do with this, it's either a) a matter of conductors choosing to make their jobs easier by closing cars off "arbitrarily" or b) cars being closed for a legitimate operational reason that the OP was unaware of.
 
VentureForth said:
TheTuck said:
Doesn't look like Amtrak has a specific policy requiring all cars be open to passengers, only that all vestibule end doors remain unlocked for crew access. (at least this crew didn't drop the bars) In CA, I believe the state requires the Surfliners (and maybe the other two) to have all cars open for seating. Maybe PA should have a similar practice...

As for complaining, you were advertised a quiet car and didn't receive one. Pretty legitimate in my opinion.
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I can't remember if it was the PacSurf or Metrolink, but on one of those (I'm pretty sure it was the PacSurf) when the train was in Push mode, they closed off the front car "For the safety of the driver".
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Metrolink for passenger safety after Chatsworth if I'm not mistaken.
 
Paulus said:
VentureForth said:
TheTuck said:
Doesn't look like Amtrak has a specific policy requiring all cars be open to passengers, only that all vestibule end doors remain unlocked for crew access. (at least this crew didn't drop the bars) In CA, I believe the state requires the Surfliners (and maybe the other two) to have all cars open for seating. Maybe PA should have a similar practice...

As for complaining, you were advertised a quiet car and didn't receive one. Pretty legitimate in my opinion.
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I can't remember if it was the PacSurf or Metrolink, but on one of those (I'm pretty sure it was the PacSurf) when the train was in Push mode, they closed off the front car "For the safety of the driver".
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Metrolink for passenger safety after Chatsworth if I'm not mistaken.
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Nah - my ride was before Chatsworth. I'm pretty certain that it was the PacSurf. The Metrolink I was on was really full.
 
In my view it's preferable to just explain what's going on to the passengers than to try and hide it. Unless the explanation is even worse than saying nothing at all. In which case it's probably rather questionable and perhaps it shouldn't be employed in the first place.

Dutchrailnut said:
Lazy?? or something wrong in next car, it is not for you to judge, the Conductor is in charge, and if he feels it necessary to do so it is his decision. you have a seat ?? did you pay surcharge for certain amenities like quiet cat ?? nope.
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Congratulations - I nominate this flippant response as the worst post in the entire thread. Seems like you have some sort of fundamental problem with common folk daring to question authority.
 
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Remember, Amtrak trains are far too often operated for the benefit and convenience of the crew, not the paying passengers.
 
Paulus said:
Dutchrailnut said:
Lazy?? or something wrong in next car, it is not for you to judge, the Conductor is in charge, and if he feels it necessary to do so it is his decision.

you have a seat ?? did you pay surcharge for certain amenities like quiet cat ?? nope.
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Attitudes like this are how lazy and terrible practices like this become entrenched at Amtrak to the company and the passengers' detriment.

Edit: And the board software just ate my edit to put in an example of what a good attitude response would've been. Joy.
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Is safety a good enough reason? Especially on long-hauls, if there is only one attendant working two or even three cars, that person is probably not going to be able to help passengers in all cars in case of an evacuation, or other emergency situation...so putting 40 or 50 people into one car that has 70 seats seems pretty reasonable...
 
Thirdrail7 said:
Railiner:

Have you ever been to a Japanese restaurant? How about a Brazilian restaurant? How about a Portuguese BBQ? I've broken bread at these types of establishements and sat right next to strangers. Just like in the Amtrak dining car.

It only goes south when people don't chew with their mouths closed! :)
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Well, if they were walking through the coach and offering up tasty Brazilian meats from a skewer, then I wouldn't complain about having to all fit into one coach. But I don't think there was any food involved in this seating decision :giggle:
 
When I take the Keystones in the morning I always have a choice of 5 cars, even if there's not as many people there. I usually have the quiet car to myself. It's different though because it then fills up with people headed to New York and it's the morning.

Nevertheless, I think you guys are right (those that are saying it) and I made a complaint. If it turns out that it was all four cars were closed off for a legitimate safety reason (I highly doubt it, but whatever) then the crew can explain it to people who will (hopefully) question them. If not, then hopefully the crew is told not to do it again.

FWIW, the Keystones ride with a conductor and an AC. So 2 people for 5 cars and I often see conductors have a lot of time to chat with passengers or not be busy; I guess being on AMTRAK turf means there isn't as much work as there might be on foreign grounds. So I think if they had at least 3 cars open and one was the quiet car everything would be fine. Heck, even two cars open would be better.
 
Barciur said:
I've seen one car closed kn late night trains but never just one open. This was just one car open and FOUR CARS CLOSED. Hence my guessing. I was told by the crew "just closed sorry" and that was that. Didnt feel like making a big fuss over it with them.

Look, it'd be one thing if one or two cars are closed. But not if 4 out of 5 are at a time when there is less passengers. And they weren't even locked with a bar across them and unaccessible - they were open and lit, but the conducts were guarding the doors and saying "sorry cars closed just this one open."
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A lightly patronized train with patrons scattered across 5 looong cars sounds like a safety hazard to me.

For one thing, conductors are required to open and close every door, are they supposed to guess which car has the ticket-holder debarking at Paoli?

And what if somebody decides to get all criminal on some other patron at the end of an empty car?

I've worked in public transit, the later and night and the emptier the cabin, the weirder they get. That includes the criminal weird. Men playing with themselves ... and worse. So maybe you will dismiss me as crazy, but if I were a conductor, 2-3 people each in 5 different cars would be stressing me a lot more than 15 people in one car.
 
FriskyFL said:
Remember, Amtrak trains are far too often operated for the benefit and convenience of the crew, not the paying passengers.
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Removing all discretion and control over working conditions from the conductors, who are train crew responsible for safety functions on the train, sounds counter-productive to me, and that's being kind.

There's plenty of research on what happens to employees who have no control over their environment. Do you want a stressed, burned out, in fact physically suffering person now responsible for keeping you and a couple of hundred other people alive?

This isn't some purely theoretical concern. I'll make it very concrete: behold how poorly passengers on airplanes comply with flight attendants attempting to enforce Federally mandated safety rules on board--they are flight crew!

I don't think DutchRailNut is crazy at all. There's a lack of empathy here from some people who seem to have never been on the other side of that interaction.

Now if you want to complain that purely customer-service staff on an LD train have terrible CS skills, then complain away. But the train crew's #1 job is not customer service, it is safety. They're not allowed to discriminate against you or be excessively rude, but they are given some discretion by the employer.

It's not authoritarianism that makes me question how someone who has ridden but never run a train is better qualified to dictate how the crews and their supervisors should do their jobs. It's experience.
 
I'm amazed that only a conductor and an AC can be responsible for 5 cars of 70 or so, each! Wow. And not for service, but train safety. To me, it would seem harder to control 350 people in 5 cars than 50 people in two cars.

Maybe an argument to bring back reserved seating!
 
VentureForth said:
I'm amazed that only a conductor and an AC can be responsible for 5 cars of 70 or so, each! Wow. And not for service, but train safety. To me, it would seem harder to control 350 people in 5 cars than 50 people in two cars.

Maybe an argument to bring back reserved seating!
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Reserved seating on what are essentially commuter trains just doesn't work. People need to be able to ride without the hassle of making reservations for going to work everyday. Commuter trains run regularly with two conductors and more than 1,000 passengers, so two guys working 350 or passengers isn't that big a deal.
 
But Amtrak isn't supposed to be a commuter train. It's SUPPOSED to be a long distance service. Now with that being said, if it weren't for the commuter service covering all costs other than that measly billion we get from congress each year, there would be no long distance.

But, yes, Mike, you make my point. 350 people in 5 cars is nothing. 50 in two cars is a less of a deal. Don't freakin' herd us around. Stop closing cars. Guess what? 10 people aren't going to destroy the bathroom (well, they might, but so will 70).
 
RyanS said:
VentureForth said:
But Amtrak isn't supposed to be a commuter train. It's SUPPOSED to be a long distance service.
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Says who?
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It is supposed to be INTERCITY service, and includes short distance/corridor, medium and long distance. It isn't supposed to be pure commuter service (going back and forth to work in a urban center). That is in the original enabling legislation, the National Rail Passenger Act of 1970.
 
Of course, technically Amtrak doesn't run commuter trains, but the Keystones, Hiawathas, Capitol Corridor and Pacific Surfliners all come awfully close to being commuter operations.
 
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