Best of the Lounge Lizards

[The Davy Crockett]

And I also do not see how it's more comfortable sleeping in a hard seat and bright full lights in the SSL vs a soft reclining seat and dimmed lights in coach? (As I've said before I've traveled many overnight in coach.)

I'm not really in favor of the SSL being taken over and turned into makeshift berths, but I can see where if one had a loud, heavyset snorer, who had not bathed in several days, nor brushed their teeth after eating garlic, bean and cheese burritos brought from home and left to ripen for several days before being consumed, one might find the SSL more comfortable.

Was that you next to me???

Sorry I grossed you out and you had to move h34r: , but those burritos were mi sobroso! :wub:

:lol:

 

[PerRock (at work)]

Well, I don't know if something like this is up to the conductor or not, but I remember one of my trips on the Meteor or Star where the conductor announced that the cafe car would be closed for "cleanup" at 2:00 am and not open again until 6:00 am. He cleaned everyone out too, as I recall.

They often close the lower level of the SSL periodically thru ought the day for cleanup and to give the staff a break (mainly meals). But the upper level stays open. Even when the SL Cafe cars are closed for whatever reason you are usually allowed to pass thru them (if needed), and often (depends on the crew) you can still hang out in the car, you just have to be aware that the crew may have you move around some as the clean. I spent the night once on the LSL hanging out in the cafe playing cards with some folks. When the crew started to clean up we had to switch tables to allow them to clean where we were, but that was all really.

peter

 

[Shawn Ryu]

I honestly do not get the complaint. There are no more than few lounge lizards at most and they are all usually up by 7 when people come back to the lounge.

 

[VentureForth]

Have any of you high & mighty sleeper passengers who think the SSL is for you tried asking a person sleeping in the SSL to move? Or all of you just ranting online?
peter

Two posts above yours:

Yes, I have asked quite a few of the sleeping lizards if they would move so I can sit down. Because this is a public site seen by many, I'll keep their response clean, and just say they weren't too happy to be woken up in "their" seat(s).

But seriously, "High and mighty sleeper passengers?" Seriously? Are they not entitled to lounge in the SSL and socialize with other guests?

It's bad enough that some conductors close the downstairs at night (Anyone got a blue book precident for this?). This is really the ONLY place on the train in the middle of the night where folks can chat and enjoy the company of others. I've had many enjoyable times in the middle of the night in the SSL.

 

[Bob Dylan]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="FriskyFL" data-cid="447153" data-time="1370872370"><p>Simply "close" the SSL for "cleaning" say, between 2am & 6am, and send these vagrants back to their seats where they belong. They paid for ONE coach seat.</p></blockquote> yea so they are occupying one seat at a time

Only problem with this is the Night Owls, including those in Sleepers, need a Place to go during "Quiet Hours" (Generally 10PM-7AM) on LD Trains! In fact Announcmens are made @ 10PM that those wanting to Chat, Use Cell Phones etc. should take themselves to the Siight Seer Lounge or the Cafe/Lounge on Single Level Trains! The Diner or CCC is where the Conductors hang out during the Night on most Trains and Ive enjoyed hanging out there also when the Lounge was Full or Rowdy because of Party Animals like Penny and her Teenage Friends! :giggle:

 

[Shawn Ryu]

But they are all generally gone by 1 am

 

[FriskyFL]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="FriskyFL" data-cid="447153" data-time="1370872370"><p>Simply "close" the SSL for "cleaning" say, between 2am & 6am, and send these vagrants back to their seats where they belong. They paid for ONE coach seat.</p></blockquote> yea so they are occupying one seat at a time

Only problem with this is the Night Owls, including those in Sleepers, need a Place to go during "Quiet Hours" (Generally 10PM-7AM) on LD Trains! In fact Announcmens are made @ 10PM that those wanting to Chat, Use Cell Phones etc. should take themselves to the Siight Seer Lounge or the Cafe/Lounge on Single Level Trains! The Diner or CCC is where the Conductors hang out during the Night on most Trains and Ive enjoyed hanging out there also when the Lounge was Full or Rowdy because of Party Animals like Penny and her Teenage Friends! :giggle:

Agreed, that's the best way to deal with the lounge vagrants - have a loud, rowdy party, interrupt their beauty sleep so they have to slink back to their coaches. Barring that, leave the lights on all night. Or pump in Celine Dion music. Or charge them double, since they're in essence occupying two seats.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I will admit I have slept in the Pacific Parlour Car on the Coast Starlight Not all night of course but maybe for an hour or so as a nap before going to bed. Nothing is more relaxing than getting a Bloody Mary or a good Beer right at last call and kicking back in one of the swivel chairs to unwind from a good train day. Of course that leaves me wide open for a nap attack, but that is nothing new as falling asleep in front of the TV at home is an almost nightly ritual.

 

[Sealink]

The things people will do to get a good seat in the lounge! h34r:

 

[Bus Nut]

You know what this shows? Not a bunch of a***es, instead it is the sad state of affairs at Amtrak. The lack of a sleeping accommodation that is more affordable to people. Not everyone is a retired rich couple on a land cruise with AGR earned sleeper bedroom. And get this, every human needs sleep. Nobody likes to sleep like this in lounge car on purpose, but when there is no better option, this is what happens. I must say on more than one occasion I have been tempted to sleep in the SSL when the coach was full and uncomfortable. Yes I know the self-righteous holier-than-thou bunch here will say "if you wanted to sleep you should have purchased a sleeper ticket". I wish life was so simple black and white. If the only accommodation option you provide costs half a dozen times as much as a coach seat for a single passenger, and you provide a lounge car that nowhere mentions sleeping is not allowed, I am going to use it to sleep. Deal with it.

Wow, almost sounds like there IS demand for the slumbercoach (hostel on wheels--see "Some Like It Hot"). How many times have we heard there is no demand for 2nd class sleeper?

Personally, when I rode CZ in coach I was very comfortable in my seat. Cant imagine getting any rest in a SSL! ymmv

 

[Shawn Ryu]

I think slumbercoach should experimented on busy routes. I woluld like a bed but i am not paying for two.

 

[Samantha]

My first Amtrak trip this summer and I will be doing long distance in coach on the CL. Glad I read this! Don't want my picture plastered on here with a lounge lizard tag. I'll suffer sleeping in coach if it kills me...which by some accounts, it may come close to doing.

 

[Ryan]

I've seen many arguments against a second class sleeper (even made some myself). Can't recall any of them saying that the demand wasn't there.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Similar situation on VIA Dome Cars:

A “Park Car” was added early to the Ocean this year and it’s been open to all passengers including coach. Previously the Park ran only from mid-June to mid-October when Sleeper Plus Class was offered.

When restricted to sleeper passengers, the dome lights have always been off at night and the dome and observation were available 24 hs/day. Now to keep passengers from “camping-out” they leave the lights on and the car closes from 10pm to 7am.

Sleeper-Plus Class returns to the Ocean this week and the Dome will be restricted to those passengers only once again……..and hopefully back to no lights and a 24 hr operation!

 

[VentureForth]

The argument against slumber coaches has generally been a matter of finding the money to build and maintain yet another category of railcar. However, I have been chided for my suggestion that something like the Auto Train should be an all sleeper train where ALL passengers travel ALL night and NONE get on or off in between.

Slumber coaches, as I have seen here in the US, carry much fewer passengers than a standard coach. AND, they have pretty lousy daytime configurations. Basically, it may be hard to generate not only the revenue to match that of coach, but to also cover the washing of linens, additional maintenance, etc.

I would LOVE to see a 2nd class sleeper with no dining or Metro Lounge/Club Acela benefits. As little as 10 years ago, it would be EASY to get a roomette for under $100 - heck, I was called and offered one once from ABQ to LAX. I've been able to get onboard upgrades between St. Louis and Dallas for $35. It would be very difficult to offer a specific service to cater to those in between prices. But those days are gone. I think that there is now a demand. But you have to be careful - you offer a 2nd class sleeper and you'll lose a LOT of folks from what is offered today. It would almost have to be priced right at the roomette price minus the meals, minus maybe 10% for privacy.

 

[Ryan]

However, I have been chided for my suggestion that something like the Auto Train should be an all sleeper train where ALL passengers travel ALL night and NONE get on or off in between.

Much like the wanting a second class sleeper, we should be pushing for more options for travelers, not less. Coach is all some people can afford. Rather than force them into driving or flying, I think that it's excellent that Amtrak give them an alternative. I'd love for them to have 2 alternatives (first and second class sleepers), but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[VentureForth]

Well, that's exactly why in my All-Sleeper Auto Train suggestion, I suggested multiple classes of sleeper. I agree that there is no way that everyone who wants to ride the Auto Train today would pay for a Roomette or Bedroom. But I also can guess that just about everyone in coach would love to sleep horizontally.

 

[the_traveler]

My first overnight in a sleeper on Amtrak was in a slumber coach on one of the silvers from NYP-TPA back in the 1970's. as (mainly) a single traveler, I would love to see something similar offered.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

But I also can guess that just about everyone in coach would love to sleep horizontally.

I agree with this. I don't think it's a matter of Amtrak needing to offer a more reasonable class of sleeper. Sure, there may be a demand for that, but there will always be a demand for coach too. So, as long as there are coach cars, there will be people wanting to get out of coach & sleep somewhere else.

Here's are two extremely easy solutions, both of which will increase Amtrak revenue:

1) Charge for lounge access. Possibly give sleeper pax free access, but make it available as an upgrade for coach pax. Then, if coach pax have paid for their upgrade and feel like sleeping there, more power to 'em.

2) Sell lounge car seats as a fare. I know they're uncomfortable long term, but perhaps if Amtrak sold them, they could use some of the revenue to refurbish them a bit.

Long term, I don't see how Amtrak justifies this free lounge space. As airlines do, they're going to have to monetize everything.

Secondly, I still think that the reason sleepers cost more is because of demand, not because they're inherently so much "better" than coach. A superliner coach can seat 62 people upstairs. Theoretically, you could fit 20 roomettes with 40 people in that space. So, if Amtrak was literally charging for the amount of space it sold, a roomette should only cost 50% more than a coach seat.

Of course, that doesn't happen, because supply & demand drive the price up, just as they do with Business Class and First Class on an airplane. So, even if some kind of slumbercoach did exist, and there was a demand for it, that same demand would drive the price above what many people in coach could pay, thus leading them to sleep on the floor of the SSL again.

And to me, the floor sleeping is the real issue. I tried to traverse the SSL one night & nearly tripped over sleeping people many times. That can't possibly be safe, either for the passengers or the crew trying to walk through - especially in the dark at night. They can let people sleep on the seats, but they shouldn't allow safety violations.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

My second class sleeper suggestion would be something like the transdorms, an all roomette sleeper where the two bunks would be sold individually... no meals, but a welcome package with champagne and snacks and coffee in the morning may not be a bad idea. I think somebody on here told me a roomette takes up the space of four coach seats, so selling each bunk at say twice the price of coach may work.

 

[roomette]

My second class sleeper suggestion would be something like the transdorms, an all roomette sleeper where the two bunks would be sold individually... no meals, but a welcome package with champagne and snacks and coffee in the morning may not be a bad idea. I think somebody on here told me a roomette takes up the space of four coach seats, so selling each bunk at say twice the price of coach may work.

Like the car in the I Love Lucy episode.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

My second class sleeper suggestion would be something like the transdorms, an all roomette sleeper where the two bunks would be sold individually... no meals, but a welcome package with champagne and snacks and coffee in the morning may not be a bad idea. I think somebody on here told me a roomette takes up the space of four coach seats, so selling each bunk at say twice the price of coach may work.

Like the car in the I Love Lucy episode.

I've seen every episode but not in years, if you got a clip I'd watch it.

 

[PerRock]

I've always like the European design for 2nd class sleepers, or Couchettes. The description from Seat 61:

Couchettes are basic, inexpensive sleeping accommodation, with 6 bunks per compartment. On many routes you can also choose to travel in a less-crowded 4-berth compartment, for only a few euros more. By day, a couchette compartment is an ordinary seating compartment, with three-a-side bench seats facing each other (the picture of the French couchette below shows the middle bunk lowered to form the seat back in daytime mode). At night, the seats convert to bunks. Each bunk is basically a padded ledge supplied with pillow, sheet and blanket which you arrange yourself. Each berth has its own reading light. Washrooms and toilets are available at the end of the corridor. The sexes are normally mixed in couchettes, as you do not normally fully undress, but on many routes women can ask for a berth in a ladies-only compartment. Couchette cars come in many different designs, all based on the same format.

Basically 4-6 people share a compartment, with 2 benches in the day time & then converts to beds for the night. If Amtrak were to do them, I would suggest not including the meals, or have a meal-option upgrade that would give the people who paid for the upgrade a voucher for their meals.

peter

 

[crescent2]

DP: I agree with most of your post, but if passengers had paid for lounge access (or it was advertised as included with sleeper fare) and they arrived to find it taken by people sprawled all over the seats sleeping, I think they'd be madder about it than some of them are now.

Re the lizards-- I think the objection is that the lounge's purpose, other than for sightseeing, is to be a place where people can socialize and talk (a lounge). It's not advertised as an alternate first come, first served sleeping accommodation, so that upsets (some of) the people who go there expecting to be able to use it as a lounge.

Although I'm a night owl, I doubt that I'd ever make use of the lounge during the night, so the lizards don't affect me. However, I can also understand that others might want to use it. There's no other place to talk later at night without disturbing the sleep of those nearby. I do understand, though, why coach passengers would want a place to lie down, especially if it was totally empty when they arrived there.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

The first time I was on a train I boarded the CL in ALC around 3AM, I went to the lounge until we got to PGH. When I board in ALC I am typically too excited to sleep for awhile, and sitting quietly in a coach full of sleeping people doesn't appeal to me. In recent years I've found it impossible to find a free seat in the lounge on most trains out of ALC. I usually get somebody to move, and if they don't I ask the conductor who usually excuses a couple people from a table. After I sit down most times I am joined by another coach pax who also wants to stretch their legs and sit up and chat. Sometimes the lizards get annoyed, others will complain when I start a quiet conversation... I remind them that the sleeping cars are forward...