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Barack Obama goes somewhere and 200,000 people show up to see him. (Berlin) McCain wants to look as though 200,000 folks have shown up to see him, so he puts himself in the middle of Sturgis SD and bungles getting his wife into a beauty pageant that usually ends up being quite kinky. Barack plays basketball on a military base in Iraq and McCain (soon to be 72 years of age) can only dream of running up and down the court and can only dream of going to a PC and seeing what all of us here are talking about since he doesn't have a clue on how to operate a PC nor does he know how many houses he owns. I wonder if he knows how many airplanes he owns? :p If I go to Cornhusker football games every fall along with Chiefs games and have season tickets to both venues, I probably REALLY support these teams, so equate that to Biden riding a train everyday to and from work, he's probably pro-rail and not an advocate against it.
 
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OMG, how did we ever survive the first 200 years of our country with presidents not having computers!
Because for the first 200 years, the world didn't operate on computers, and therefore, knowing how they worked was irrelevant. This is similar in concept to asking how important knowing how to read and write is for a leader. I mean, let me tell you, only the past 10-15,000 years have our leaders known how to read and write. They didn't for a million years before that! I mean how important could that be? Yeesh.

I fond it odd defending someone I'll most likely not be voting for, but where's all this "McCain the War Veteran" stuff coming from that's supposedly coming from Mccain himself?
Thats the big problem with all of you people. You find it odd to defend someone you aren't voting for. I've defended McCain before, to you people, to my parents, to my friends, to my girlfriend. I will never vote for this man unless something really really weird is proven about Obama. But the fact of the matter is, being of my opinions or not, the man is not a devil. I wish a few of you would stop painting unneeded horns and pointed tails and fangs on the man. So he doesn't support Amtrak. So he doesn't have many modern perspectives. So he supports some misguided ideas. So don't bleedin' vote for the man. I sure won't. But please, don't demonize him. He's not evil.

Which one of the two candidates will make my life better?
Obama/Biden. A no brainer.
Boy, I'm not touching this one with a 10 foot pole... even if you did leave yourself really wide open!!! Aaaaag... it's so-so tempting! :(
That is a ridiculous comment. I will debunk it with a even more ridiculous counter. Lets say that Biden or Obama is Whooz's best friend and they promised him a $200k/yr no-work job. I'm not saying that is the case, but I have just created a hypothetical situation where and elected Obama would clearly benefit Whooz, and you can't even dispute it.

McCain being elected will benefit some people. Obama being elected will benefit some people. The question for you is, are you going to be of both groups, one group, or neither group? If so, which one? And this is assuming you are selfish, which since you are a pro-capitalistic American, I'm going to assume you are. Personally, I'd vote for someone who wouldn't benefit me if I thought it was for the good of the world.
 
I was surprised to learn (via CNN) that Joe Biden is the poorest member of the U.S. senate. He apparently had a negative net worth in his last filing.
If that's true it both does and does not speak well of him! But then again this comes from CNN, so who know for sure if it's true or not - at least at this time!
It seems that this tidbit was picked-up as an AP story, so there's something to it.
 
You'd think McCain would be pro-Amtrak, since he qualified for the senior discount - ten years ago.

mccain_simpsons_2008.jpg
 
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I fond it odd defending someone I'll most likely not be voting for, but where's all this "McCain the War Veteran" stuff coming from that's supposedly coming from Mccain himself? I do an enormous amount of reading and news watching, but I've come across several accounts of his POW experience and the camera footage of him in in jet, fully engulfed in flames-- all done by someone else-- and one short account of his own in Hanoi. I also recall a LOT of McCain standing up to Bush, both of them, which doesn't mesh with a supposed "95% approval vote".
Here's another:

Biden:

"Your kitchen table's like mine," Biden said. "You sit there at night, after you put the kids to bed, and you talk. You talk about what you need. You talk about how much you're worried about being able to pay the bills. But ladies and gentlemen, that's not a worry John McCain has to worry about. It's a pretty hard experience -- he'll have to figure out which of the seven kitchen tables to sit at."

McCain's retort:

I am grateful for the fact that I have a wonderful life," McCain said. "I spent some years without a kitchen table, without a chair, and I know what it's like to be blessed by the opportunities of this great nation...So the fact is that we have homes, and I'm grateful for it.
So yes, the answer to pretty much everything is "but I was a POW!"

I'm glad to see Biden as the VP pick for a lot of reasons, his staunch Amtrak support is just the icing on the cake.

(D.P. Roberts, that's hilarious - did you create it/may I use it?)
 
Which one of the two candidates will make my life better?
Obama/Biden. A no brainer. There was a senator from Mississippi - for the life of me I can't recall his name at the moment - who was heavily pro-Amtrak. But he was so wrong on so many other things that I never woulda voted for the guy, had I been a Mississippi resident.
You're thinking of Trent Lott. **shudder**
That's the guy. Thanks, and I share your shudder.
 
...and how many of you on here responding have served in a war zone for the US military? Within that category, how many of you have had the opportunity to serve the US military as a POW? It's an elite job description. Requirements are the ability to endure enormous amounts of suffering while bringing respect to the flag that put you in that situation. Sometimes these are contradictory requirements and it requires some high personal standards and a brilliant set of skills to endure that I rarely detect on this board. Leadership skills. Hello, yes!! Let's back up a minute and do a little history lesson for you keyboard junkies. Vietnam wasn't a war that young men and women were thrilled to fight. Some ran to Canada, some spent their tours trying to escape their duties with mind altering drugs. Many (probably most) served admirably and are still dealing with its demons. Whooz appears to have drawn the grace card known as "in between wars", just as I would have had I been a man. McCain didn't. War sucks but sometimes it's necessary. You face your mortality at a very young age. How many of you had a will at age 18 because of the possibility of losing your life in a war zone? You may give up some of the usually more productive years of your life (as McCain did) and as many of the over 30,435 (OIF) 2,257 (OEF) injured as reported in the Army Times 8/4/08 have done Killed total 4,116 and 555. Missing or possibly captured, 1. Do you even know who he is? With this group the answer has to be NO. Yet, you can find the number on a sleeper car with no difficulty. Priorities, guys, priorities.

If McCain now has 7 tables to eat at, so be it. Quit whining, show some initiative and earn enough so that you can have 7 tables, if it is 7 tables that you want. The opportunity is in front of you by virtue of the providence of being a citizen in this country. I've pondered the "what if I'd been born in Africa" thought.

Until you have (POW experience) you will never know what it takes to have the resolve and discipline to make it through difficult times. He faced the possibility of dying in a foreign land, caged, without any family around him and having his body land where it would never be found.... except that the US has such a respect for this service that we are still finding and bringing our Vietnam soldiers home to this day. It's a d*mned shame that you guys (with maybe one exception) don't have the same respect for the self-sacrifice that this required. But, that's a reflection on you, not McCain.

Railroads are good but as the ****s discovered, they can be used for evil purposes. So, guys, get it in perspective. Get the right guy in the office and then use the power of the pen to get Amtrak permanently funded.

Make sure that you vote for a President that can lead in war if it once again becomes necessary. From a military wife, PLEASE, do not put someone in that office who cuts the number of military members serving. The burden is too great on the remaining and Pres. Bill Clinton (not Bush) is directly responsibile for that idiocy while making sure that parents had to explain "o*al s*x" to their children long before it was time because it was an inescapable part of his life and character. For pete's sake, if that's what the man needed, Hillary should have been bright enough to figure it out.

As far as computer skills.. guys, guys, guys. You have no clue how stupid YOU sound when you think it's a prerequisite to run for Pres. You all appear to have the TIME to mess with this machine and that's all it is. A machine, a tool. In time, it will be as antiquated as a telephone. It is far more important in life to have good relationships than it is to have computer skills. This comes from someone whose first programming experience was putting COBOL (and the language that starts with an F, -forgotten it now), codes on punch cards, getting the cards in line, getting myself in line, feeding them into a card reader, getting a printout on green-lined side-punched paper and wondering which card got out of order and having to repeat the process. What you have in front of you will at some near future point seem as odd as the punch cards I used.
 
This comes from someone whose first programming experience was putting COBOL (and the language that starts with an F, -forgotten it now), codes on punch cards, getting the cards in line, getting myself in line, feeding them into a card reader, getting a printout on green-lined side-punched paper and wondering which card got out of order and having to repeat the process. What you have in front of you will at some near future point seem as odd as the punch cards I used.
That computer language would not happen to be FORTRAN, would it ? I've had training on the AS/400, where we used to have to deal with subfile programming, Data Description Source, and some things that looked a lot like "Assembler."
 
OMG, how did we ever survive the first 200 years of our country with presidents not having computers!
Because for the first 200 years, the world didn't operate on computers, and therefore, knowing how they worked was irrelevant. This is similar in concept to asking how important knowing how to read and write is for a leader. I mean, let me tell you, only the past 10-15,000 years have our leaders known how to read and write. They didn't for a million years before that! I mean how important could that be? Yeesh.

I fond it odd defending someone I'll most likely not be voting for, but where's all this "McCain the War Veteran" stuff coming from that's supposedly coming from Mccain himself?
Thats the big problem with all of you people. You find it odd to defend someone you aren't voting for. I've defended McCain before, to you people, to my parents, to my friends, to my girlfriend. I will never vote for this man unless something really really weird is proven about Obama. But the fact of the matter is, being of my opinions or not, the man is not a devil. I wish a few of you would stop painting unneeded horns and pointed tails and fangs on the man. So he doesn't support Amtrak. So he doesn't have many modern perspectives. So he supports some misguided ideas. So don't bleedin' vote for the man. I sure won't. But please, don't demonize him. He's not evil.

Which one of the two candidates will make my life better?
Obama/Biden. A no brainer.
Boy, I'm not touching this one with a 10 foot pole... even if you did leave yourself really wide open!!! Aaaaag... it's so-so tempting! :(
That is a ridiculous comment. I will debunk it with a even more ridiculous counter. Lets say that Biden or Obama is Whooz's best friend and they promised him a $200k/yr no-work job. I'm not saying that is the case, but I have just created a hypothetical situation where and elected Obama would clearly benefit Whooz, and you can't even dispute it.

McCain being elected will benefit some people. Obama being elected will benefit some people. The question for you is, are you going to be of both groups, one group, or neither group? If so, which one? And this is assuming you are selfish, which since you are a pro-capitalistic American, I'm going to assume you are. Personally, I'd vote for someone who wouldn't benefit me if I thought it was for the good of the world.
I feel that using terms like "Yeesh" and "ridiculous" are at the fringe of bashing my posts and making your remarks personal and this is not the first time this has happened on this forum. I am NOT going to engage you or participate in its continuation. Besides, that is against the rules of this forum isn't it? :(

The only comment I will make though is regarding your last sentence... what you stated is "EXACTLY WHY I WILL BE VOTING FOR MCCAIN!" I want what's best for the WORLD, the whole world and not just what's best for the views and agendas of secular-progressive liberals and the Democratic Party!
 
This comes from someone whose first programming experience was putting COBOL (and the language that starts with an F, -forgotten it now), codes on punch cards, getting the cards in line, getting myself in line, feeding them into a card reader, getting a printout on green-lined side-punched paper and wondering which card got out of order and having to repeat the process. What you have in front of you will at some near future point seem as odd as the punch cards I used.
That computer language would not happen to be FORTRAN, would it ? I've had training on the AS/400, where we used to have to deal with subfile programming, Data Description Source, and some things that looked a lot like "Assembler."
Yes, that's it. I went to a university that had upper degrees in engineering (to service the nearby NASA installation) before it had undergraduate degrees in business and IIRC, Fortran was more of a science code than a business code- yet business grads had to take a programming course for the BSBA.

For some humor, my honors class involved analyzing a business to solve it's problems. Two advanced degree engineers had opened a store-front selling personal computers (there were about 3 brands on the market at the time). All of our research indicated that they would be as common as telephones in the not so distant future. This was about 1981. The store owners' (very future-oriented in a future-oriented city) problem was that they didn't know how to market these things or handle potential customers (lack of people skills). They ended up closing. Brilliant idea. Highly-educated market. No people skills. No sales.

Writing this brought back the frustration I felt when the 5 or so inches of punch cards fell to the floor as I was feeding them into a machine.
 
That computer language would not happen to be FORTRAN, would it ? I've had training on the AS/400, where we used to have to deal with subfile programming, Data Description Source, and some things that looked a lot like "Assembler."
I know some of you will know this, but for the young'ns that don't, Fortran stands for "Formula Translation" and Cobol stands for "Common Business Language!" Class dismissed! :lol:
 
sucks but sometimes it's necessary.
I fully recognize and agree that war is sometimes necessary. However, the current conflict in Iraq is war by choice, wholly UNnecessary, and initiated under false pretenses. And while Joe Biden voted for it, he was also among the first to recognize his hideous mistake. McCain is still thumping the dead drum of "Victory."
 
This thread is deviating from the original theme of Biden and Amtrak. Let's keep things on topic and shy away from unrelated political references. I'm referring to the string of posts dating back from yesterday - not only to those posts from today. Thanks. :)
 
This thread is deviating from the original theme of Biden and Amtrak. Let's keep things on topic and shy away from unrelated political references. I'm referring to the string of posts dating back from yesterday - not only to those posts from today. Thanks. :)
Hey Anthony, as forum founder, do you care to stick your neck out and venture a Biden and Amtrak opinion? :D
 
sucks but sometimes it's necessary.
I fully recognize and agree that war is sometimes necessary. However, the current conflict in Iraq is war by choice, wholly UNnecessary, and initiated under false pretenses. And while Joe Biden voted for it, he was also among the first to recognize his hideous mistake. McCain is still thumping the dead drum of "Victory."
I don't think 10 years of many UN resolutions against Iraq hardly qualifies being labeled as "false pretenses!" That is the primary reason why Bush acted once 9-11 occured and it was realized somthing needed to be done following Clinton's failure to do anything! The "weapons of mass destructions" was simply a supporting factor that Democrats later used for political advantage. In the beginning it was fully believed by not only the president but most all of congress too.

In my opinion Bush's low rating is now so low because too many other nations had no balls to support us and do anything about Sadam's continual thumbing of his nose at us, the UN and the world. The other problem is because Democrats efficiently exploited the naturally unpopularity of war to fool the American people into believeing that Bush lied to us. And they say that you can't fool most of the people, most of the time? If it weren't for those points I've made the war would have reached the success it is just now experiencing long ago and most troops would now be back home and Bush's ratings would - to the shagrin of the Dems - be sky high and congress would not be controlled by the democrats! And quoting what was said in another post "that's a no-brainer" weither you agree with me or not!
 
This thread is deviating from the original theme of Biden and Amtrak. Let's keep things on topic and shy away from unrelated political references. I'm referring to the string of posts dating back from yesterday - not only to those posts from today. Thanks. :)
Read this message following my last response. I'm suprised something wasn't said long before it was. Thank you! Now maybe I can get some sleep :blink: instead of defending... aah, never mind! :p
 
...and how many of you on here responding have served in a war zone for the US military? Within that category, how many of you have had the opportunity to serve the US military as a POW? It's an elite job description. Requirements are the ability to endure enormous amounts of suffering while bringing respect to the flag that put you in that situation. Sometimes these are contradictory requirements and it requires some high personal standards and a brilliant set of skills to endure that I rarely detect on this board. Leadership skills. Hello, yes!! Let's back up a minute and do a little history lesson for you keyboard junkies. Vietnam wasn't a war that young men and women were thrilled to fight. Some ran to Canada, some spent their tours trying to escape their duties with mind altering drugs. Many (probably most) served admirably and are still dealing with its demons. Whooz appears to have drawn the grace card known as "in between wars", just as I would have had I been a man. McCain didn't. War sucks but sometimes it's necessary. You face your mortality at a very young age. How many of you had a will at age 18 because of the possibility of losing your life in a war zone? You may give up some of the usually more productive years of your life (as McCain did) and as many of the over 30,435 (OIF) 2,257 (OEF) injured as reported in the Army Times 8/4/08 have done Killed total 4,116 and 555. Missing or possibly captured, 1. Do you even know who he is? With this group the answer has to be NO. Yet, you can find the number on a sleeper car with no difficulty. Priorities, guys, priorities.
If McCain now has 7 tables to eat at, so be it. Quit whining, show some initiative and earn enough so that you can have 7 tables, if it is 7 tables that you want. The opportunity is in front of you by virtue of the providence of being a citizen in this country. I've pondered the "what if I'd been born in Africa" thought.

Until you have (POW experience) you will never know what it takes to have the resolve and discipline to make it through difficult times. He faced the possibility of dying in a foreign land, caged, without any family around him and having his body land where it would never be found.... except that the US has such a respect for this service that we are still finding and bringing our Vietnam soldiers home to this day. It's a d*mned shame that you guys (with maybe one exception) don't have the same respect for the self-sacrifice that this required. But, that's a reflection on you, not McCain.
What McCain has done for his country is admirable. The man is a hero, an honest, fair, reasonable, decent fellow. Being a war vet can do nothing but add to his ability to run our nation. But the thing is, its not enough reason. A president is not just the head of our military. He is the head of our country, the man who must make tough decisions for everyone's benefit. McCain has limited knowledge of economics, very limited connection with the people of our country currently going through a recession, and he is not a negotiator, a maverick of the senate. In this time and place, the war is an issue. But Jodie, its not the only one. I don't think he can handle many of the others.

Railroads are good but as the ****s discovered, they can be used for evil purposes. So, guys, get it in perspective. Get the right guy in the office and then use the power of the pen to get Amtrak permanently funded.
If my only problem with McCain was his position on Amtrak, he'd have my vote. There might be a few people on this board who are single minded enough to argue with that position, but I doubt it. If they do, they are probably currently active employees of Amtrak, and I don't blame 'em.

Make sure that you vote for a President that can lead in war if it once again becomes necessary. From a military wife, PLEASE, do not put someone in that office who cuts the number of military members serving.
I think that an ability to lead in a war is important, and personally I think Obama might be able to in the event that he has to. But personally, I think he'd be better than McCain at the more important issue of avoiding a war in the first place.

The burden is too great on the remaining and Pres. Bill Clinton (not Bush) is directly responsibile for that idiocy while making sure that parents had to explain "o*al s*x" to their children long before it was time because it was an inescapable part of his life and character. For pete's sake, if that's what the man needed, Hillary should have been bright enough to figure it out.
His sexual preferences, and his relationship with his wife, are almost as irrelevant in this argument as my aforementioned prehensile toes.

As far as computer skills.. guys, guys, guys. You have no clue how stupid YOU sound when you think it's a prerequisite to run for Pres. You all appear to have the TIME to mess with this machine and that's all it is. A machine, a tool. In time, it will be as antiquated as a telephone. It is far more important in life to have good relationships than it is to have computer skills. This comes from someone whose first programming experience was putting COBOL (and the language that starts with an F, -forgotten it now), codes on punch cards, getting the cards in line, getting myself in line, feeding them into a card reader, getting a printout on green-lined side-punched paper and wondering which card got out of order and having to repeat the process. What you have in front of you will at some near future point seem as odd as the punch cards I used.
Tell me, would you trust building your house to a carpenter that didn't know how to use a hammer? Being president of the united states means you have to take advantage of all things, and the computer is too important a tool to not have to do your job. People who are familiar with computers think differently.

Before computers, if I was reading or writing something and though of a piece of information I could use, I'd make a mental note to look it up next time I happened to go to the library. As often as not, I'd forget. Now if I want to use information, say to quote Amtrak's ridership for 2007, I'd hit "Command-T" to open up a new tab, mid sentence, and type into the Google bar "Amtrak 2007 ridership", click on the first link on the list and quote you the number, 25,847,531.

A president likely to look up information, any information, that he doesn't happen to know exactly, this second... tell me, is that not a useful feature in a leader?

Anthony: Same as Sky.
 
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Patrick - as forum founder, I must stay neutral and bipartisan, so I will not venture any personal political opinions on the forum. :D :lol:
 
sucks but sometimes it's necessary.
I fully recognize and agree that war is sometimes necessary. However, the current conflict in Iraq is war by choice, wholly UNnecessary, and initiated under false pretenses. And while Joe Biden voted for it, he was also among the first to recognize his hideous mistake. McCain is still thumping the dead drum of "Victory."
Whooz, the "wholy unnecessary" is strictly your opinion, not necessarily a fact. Those who govern us have to base their judgments on fact as those facts are presented to them, act, and then take responsiblity for those actions. I maintain (and we've gone over this point before) that the intelligence was faulty or that the American people will never know exactly what was put in front of Bush. What was the man told that would make him say, "good job Brownie"?

Never underestimate the military leaders' desire for war. Service in a war zone brings promotions. War brings monies to hurting small towns across America by employing citizens whose jobs have gone to other countries. Don't underestimate this. Think for a moment. You're a chicken factory worker (or a hog farmer) in a small town. The company also hires illegals. Your part-time (normally) job with the Guard pays several times as much as you earn in the regular job. Your family needs some medical care. The chicken factory doesn't cover your health. Another Mexican will take your job while you're away. It's in a right-to-work state so there's no union protection (why do you THINK so many car production plants are going South?). When you go on active duty your family gets caught up on medical care (no joke- I'm a witness to this). You get to keep the bill collector at bay for awhile. The babies you create at the beginning of the tour get delivered on military money. And, if you're to believe the military, you get to have one heck of an adventure.

What wasn't faulty was that we were attacked on our own soil and our citizens/service members had been attacked repeatedly through several administrations, including Clinton's. His response, reduce the military strength. Must be the air in the Ivy Leagues? If you stomp my foot more than once, I'm going to deck you and this Christian's going after you. End of conversation. I have no qualms shooting someone who's wants to kill me. That's the only thing some countries and extremist violent cults understand. Clinton couldn't get his job description clear in his head. I DO NOT want a "leader", ever again, who governs by the direction of the wind (polls)- Clinton types. If the polls (and someone with scientific polling experience-feel free to jump in) show someone as being unpopular, I don't care. It's not a popularity contest. I am definitely hoping for some excellent diplomacy experience within the potential team. Neither would I want a team picked in order to meet equal opportunity goals.... but I still have a litmus test issue.

FWIW, color of skin is an insignificant issue.
 
Here's the thing, sports fans.

Some of Amtrak's biggest cuts occurred under the Carter administration. Those cuts IMO, really crippled the national system, leaving us fewer options on the table that we need NOW.

25 years ago, the policy-makers and bean-counters only saw numbers needing cutting.

I would prefer having a national intercity railroad passenger train system being perceived as something both political parties agree upon, and fully believe those on this forum need to work towards. Remember: 218+51+1 votes are needed to make any federal spending happen. Positioning the national intercity railroad passenger train system in terms of a single political party is a mistake that passenger train advocates cannot afford to make.

That's why I think that it's nice that Senator Biden rides Amtrak, but don't expect any miracles if he and his running mate are elected to office.
 
So now the conservatives say that being in the "war" and POW stuff is "what a man is made of" blah, blah, blah....but "W" got where he got by beating 3 Viet Nam vets and 2 that were decorated Viet Nam vets and he was sippin' Champagne on the Sunset Limited from 1971-1974 as he went back and forth from Texas to Alabama in the National Guard. (had to put some Amtrak reference in there) The man never speaks of HIS military experiences because he had none. But that was ok then, but now....the pedigree has to be "military and POW" funny how things can change in 4 years. And how sad things have changed in 8 years. :huh:
 
Patrick - as forum founder, I must stay neutral and bipartisan, so I will not venture any personal political opinions on the forum. :D :lol:
Fair enough, Mr. Rizos, and I think we share the common goal of getting people talking, even if it's sometimes off topic.

BTW, I happen to know that Anthony is a major Commie. JOKE!
 
So now the conservatives say that being in the "war" and POW stuff is "what a man is made of" blah, blah, blah....but "W" got where he got by beating 3 Viet Nam vets and 2 that were decorated Viet Nam vets and he was sippin' Champagne on the Sunset Limited from 1971-1974 as he went back and forth from Texas to Alabama in the National Guard. (had to put some Amtrak reference in there) The man never speaks of HIS military experiences because he had none. But that was ok then, but now....the pedigree has to be "military and POW" funny how things can change in 4 years. And how sad things have changed in 8 years. :huh:
Being a moderate conservative I have to say that McCain's war record has little to do with my support for him except for giving him better qualifications in the area of foreign policy. His having much longer congressional experience in that area than Obama also factors into the equasion!
 
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