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Well, and as far as this particular case goes, one saving grace is that FECI is a major political donor...so that should provide some cover. I will say that it is interesting watching as one side of the spectrum attacks the bullet train while folks on the other promoted it...and then things reverse with this project. If there is a consensus in Florida, it seems to be either "We want a train...we're just not sure which one" or "We want a train...just not the one being promoted right now."
Actually Anderson, there is alot of support for All Aboard Florida in Florida. Besides Orlando and South Florida, Tampa and Jacksonville are definitely supportive of AAF. The noise you are hearing now is from the Treasure Coast communities. Besides being ticked off that they are not getting a stop with AAF, they have been anti-south Florida as far as development and diversity. In my 17 years living in Florida, people in Port St Lucie to Vero Beach have always talked in somewhat racist terms about people from Miami and Broward, WPB moving northward. That is the real reason why these people don't want AAF. To them AAF represents being assimilated into the larger south Florida metropolis.
Florida is a diverse state. Central and south Florida are "progressive" whereas parts of SW Florida and north Florida and the panhandle are very much like the rest of the south. That is why it appears that FL is conflicted when it comes to so many things (including presidential elections! Hahah)
The irony is that, with that attitude, you'd think they would want to get skipped since being skipped should help stall development.
 
Well, and as far as this particular case goes, one saving grace is that FECI is a major political donor...so that should provide some cover. I will say that it is interesting watching as one side of the spectrum attacks the bullet train while folks on the other promoted it...and then things reverse with this project. If there is a consensus in Florida, it seems to be either "We want a train...we're just not sure which one" or "We want a train...just not the one being promoted right now."
Actually Anderson, there is alot of support for All Aboard Florida in Florida. Besides Orlando and South Florida, Tampa and Jacksonville are definitely supportive of AAF. The noise you are hearing now is from the Treasure Coast communities. Besides being ticked off that they are not getting a stop with AAF, they have been anti-south Florida as far as development and diversity. In my 17 years living in Florida, people in Port St Lucie to Vero Beach have always talked in somewhat racist terms about people from Miami and Broward, WPB moving northward. That is the real reason why these people don't want AAF. To them AAF represents being assimilated into the larger south Florida metropolis.Florida is a diverse state. Central and south Florida are "progressive" whereas parts of SW Florida and north Florida and the panhandle are very much like the rest of the south. That is why it appears that FL is conflicted when it comes to so many things (including presidential elections! Hahah)
The irony is that, with that attitude, you'd think they would want to get skipped since being skipped should help stall development.
They want to stop the whole project completely is what they want. Their demand is that AAF build a completely new route west of their cities. Of course, that is never going to happen! Some people might be satisfied if they get a stop, but mostly they just do not want it.
 
There's also a lot of negatism about passenger rail in the area of the Villages, Wildwood, Ocala. They had a huge lobby to repeal the previous rail plan approved by the Florida voters. Ironically most of those against are retirees from other areas of the US.
 
And a bunch of old snowbirds who are against spending any money on anything they don't need! It's definitely the "I got mine, so screw the rest of you" attitude. Some people are just against any and all change unless it benefits them. Ask the average old fart if he is okay with cutting his SS or Medicare benefits? A huge difference on that!!
 
There is a saying in the Florida Panhandle, "In Florida, the further north you go, the further south you are." There is the general feeling that the state is getting over cluttered with Yankee retirees in the lower peninsula. Brian has it exactly right. Try to get any state spending on education past these self centered clods. They seem to desire to turn the state into a third world country where they are the ones with the money and the rest of the population becomes a bunch of low paid servants to their whims.
 
Unfortunately, everything south of Orlando is going to sink under the waves as the sea level rises. I am a bit pessimistic about any improvements made there. I wonder where the refugees will move to. The refugees from New Orleans apparently mostly ended up in Texas and liberalized it. :)
 
Unfortunately, everything south of Orlando is going to sink under the waves as the sea level rises. I am a bit pessimistic about any improvements made there. I wonder where the refugees will move to. The refugees from New Orleans apparently mostly ended up in Texas and liberalized it. :)
Perhaps the people who came to Austin did but the rest of Texas is still pretty much Fixed Noise Territory with the Worst Politicians money can buy! Sigh
And apologies to our Florida AU friends but it seems that Florida isn't much better! Here in Texas we say "Thank goodness for Mississippi and Alabama, they keep us from being on the bottom on all the lists!
 
Unfortunately, everything south of Orlando is going to sink under the waves as the sea level rises. I am a bit pessimistic about any improvements made there. I wonder where the refugees will move to. The refugees from New Orleans apparently mostly ended up in Texas and liberalized it. :)
Perhaps the people who came to Austin did but the rest of Texas is still pretty much Fixed Noise Territory with the Worst Politicians money can buy! Sigh
And apologies to our Florida AU friends but it seems that Florida isn't much better! Here in Texas we say "Thank goodness for Mississippi and Alabama, they keep us from being on the bottom on all the lists!
Jim, we, in Florida say the same thing about Mississippi and Alabama. Unfortunately, most Floridians love their cars much more than they like the environment or the well being of any future generations. :(
 
If you think the greatest generation of old farts are a self centered bunch of pricks, just wait until the baby boomers get through with it. We'll need BNSFs entire hopper fleet to clean up the rubble.
 
Actually Lion the Baby Boomers are the Generation who helped stop the Vietnam War, pushed for Environmental Awareness and were the back bone of the Civil Rights and Feminist Movement?

The ones you're talking about are the rich greed heads of all ages that live in gated communities, listen to hate radio and Fixed News and vote for t-baggers that dance to the tune that the Corporations and Rich Haters like the Mooch er Kooch Brothers provide them!
 
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No, trust me. The baby boomers will be worse. Just cuz they did good stuff when properly bombed outta there mind on pot doesn't mean they know better now. They are wealthier and twice as selfish.
 
No, trust me. The baby boomers will be worse. Just cuz they did good stuff when properly bombed outta there mind on pot doesn't mean they know better now. They are wealthier and twice as selfish.
Roll on the quote by W. Churchill (or was it G. Clemenceau?) that if a man isn't a socialist when he's 20 he has no heart, but if he's still a socialist when he's 40 he has no brain.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people who smoked pot and opposed the Vietnam War when they were 20 are indeed today's racist t-baggers. Time can do strange things to people's memories.

Of course in reality the majority of voters are neither tin-hat t-baggers nor carmic hippies but just normal people in the middle whose sympathies can sometimes align with one group, sometimes with the other, and sometimes with neither.
 
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No, trust me. The baby boomers will be worse. Just cuz they did good stuff when properly bombed outta there mind on pot doesn't mean they know better now. They are wealthier and twice as selfish.
Roll on the quote by W. Churchill (or was it G. Clemenceau?) that if a man isn't a socialist when he's 20 he has no heart, but if he's still a socialist when he's 40 he has no brain.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people who smoked pot and opposed the Vietnam War when they were 20 are indeed today's racist t-baggers. Time can do strange things to people's memories.

Of course in reality the majority of voters are neither tin-hat t-baggers nor carmic hippies but just normal people in the middle whose sympathies can sometimes align with one group, sometimes with the other, and sometimes with neither.
It was Churchill, and it was a "Liberal" and a "Conservative". The context was Churchill explaining his jumps between parties (he was first elected as a Tory, switched to being a Liberal, and then switched back as the Liberals collapsed in the 20s).
 
No, trust me. The baby boomers will be worse. Just cuz they did good stuff when properly bombed outta there mind on pot doesn't mean they know better now. They are wealthier and twice as selfish.
Roll on the quote by W. Churchill (or was it G. Clemenceau?) that if a man isn't a socialist when he's 20 he has no heart, but if he's still a socialist when he's 40 he has no brain.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people who smoked pot and opposed the Vietnam War when they were 20 are indeed today's racist t-baggers. Time can do strange things to people's memories.

Of course in reality the majority of voters are neither tin-hat t-baggers nor carmic hippies but just normal people in the middle whose sympathies can sometimes align with one group, sometimes with the other, and sometimes with neither.
It was Churchill, and it was a "Liberal" and a "Conservative". The context was Churchill explaining his jumps between parties (he was first elected as a Tory, switched to being a Liberal, and then switched back as the Liberals collapsed in the 20s).
Probably, it was both ...

or neither ...

http://katecarruthers.com/2005/02/alleged-quote-by-churchill-on-being-a-socialist-or-conservative/

http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/if_youre_not_a_liberal_at_20_you_have_no_heart_if_not_a_conservative_at_40
 
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No, trust me. The baby boomers will be worse. Just cuz they did good stuff when properly bombed outta there mind on pot doesn't mean they know better now. They are wealthier and twice as selfish.
I think maybe you're overgeneralizing about "baby boomers," Not every person born between 1946 and 1964 was a pot-smoking, long haired hippie-freak with leftwing political views. I myself discovered this in the later 1970s when I attended graduate school at a large state university in flyover country after having done my undergraduate in a private liberal arts college (also in flyover country FWIW) full of shaggy leftwing types. The baby boomer generation has more diversity than lazy glib op-ed columnists would like to admit. However, it is true that there is a subset of formerly shaggy leftwing Baby Boomers who morphed into identical copies of their uptight politically conservative parents. :)
 
Off-topic post about a alleged Churchill quote. :)

Roll on the quote by W. Churchill (or was it G. Clemenceau?) that if a man isn't a socialist when he's 20 he has no heart, but if he's still a socialist when he's 40 he has no brain.
It was Churchill, and it was a "Liberal" and a "Conservative". The context was Churchill explaining his jumps between parties (he was first elected as a Tory, switched to being a Liberal, and then switched back as the Liberals collapsed in the 20s).
When looking at all the existing information about this quote, and all the variations that exist of it, to most people it might be clear that the sentence above (or a variation of it) is not a Churchill quote.

For a good explanation and some research on it see here:

http://katecarruthers.com/2005/02/alleged-quote-by-churchill-on-being-a-socialist-or-conservative/

And in the following here is the statement by the Churchill Center non-profit organization based in Illinois:

"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain." There is no record of anyone hearing Churchill say this. Paul Addison of Edinburgh University makes this comment: "Surely Churchill can't have used the words attributed to him. He'd been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35! And would he have talked so disrespectfully of Clemmie, who is generally thought to have been a lifelong Liberal?"
Source: https://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/speeches/quotations/quotes-falsely-attributed

It's especially confusing when this alleged quote is being used by human beings residing in the US, as then they typically would perceive the terms "liberal" and "conservative" in an American way, as those reference points on the typical US political spectrum, while even if it was ever said with these terms than it would have referred to the political parties of those names in the UK (Churchill probably would not have cared about the political spectrum of the US), and that has serious implications, as conservative in the UK (in the sense of the political party) means something completely different (support of government-run single-payer health care, support of the monarchy etc.) than what US residents might imagine when they hear "conservative".

Still it's just very likely that this is a fantasy quote, and it's weird to see it come up again and again (those it does make sense that it possibly would, though it most likely is inaccurate, as some might think the quote favors conservatism and so it makes sense that I've personally already heard it being used by objectivists and conservatives). One should probably start printing t-shirts "Churchill did not say this" in an attempt to counter the misinformation... ;)

Hope it is not bad that this off-topic post about the alleged Churchill quote can be found in this thread now. :)
 
As I mentioned before attitudes towards AAF is tending to become more hostile in Brevard County with the realization that there is no positives for the county in the project.

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/2014/04/29/commissioners-may-rethink-high-speed-rail-service/8496799/

This article from last year gives a clear indication that on the Brevard County and the Space Coast Transportation Planning Organization (one of the MPOs) is quite supportive of introduction of rail passenger service, and mention is made of pushing for a possible Cocoa stop for AAF, as we ll as Amtrak service on the FEC.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/7/2/_2_train_projects_ch.html

I think it would be desirable to channel this county more towards a stance of serious negotiation with AAF for a stop in Cocoa ASAP, rather than outright opposition. Also need to use the good offices of the Governor to get the Beach Line Toll folks to back off from the restrictive conditions they have placed on AAF. That is the approach that I am thinking of taking as I prepare to become a resident of this county. It really serves no purpose at all to create bitterness over such an issue when there are possible ways of putting together a mutually agreeable solution. Of course the issue of negotiating new agreements on cost sharing responsibilities regarding grade crossings has to be handled regardless. The business about old structures being damaged by passing passenger trains when they are doing fine with passing freight trains appears to be a bogus one to me. Gotta get down there and start going to these Commission meetings to educate I suppose.

Incidentally, it is now mid 2014 and still there is not a sign of any construction of anything at all anywhere in Brevard County as far as I can tell. And certainly there is no visible sign of any construction along the Beach Line either.

and then there is of course this one about a separate high speed Maglev link between Orlando International and Port Canaveral.

http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida/brevard-county/officials-highspeed-rail-could-connect-oia-with-port-canaveral/24313412

Sigh. Why not a little branch off of the AAF from Cocoa to Port Canaveral? That would be too logical I suppose.

At least the Brevard MPO is actively engaged in encouraging development of rail along several corridors and urging FDOT to get on with it.

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/rail/PlanDevel/Comments/General/BrevardMPO-072308.pdf
 
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I will believe in it the same time I believe in any new train or bus service- when it turns a wheel in revenue service.
 
I am hopeful that this thread (my favorite AU thread) can go back to bashing NIMBYs, wondering about consists and digging up difficult to find info about AAF....and keep the politics neutral or a on seperate thread.
 
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