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So Phase I is now limited to Orlando to West Palm Beach, all 79 mph railroad. As for what and when Phase II is appears to be an open ended thing. At least in this segment there was no mention about when Phase II would be completed. There was a bit of hemming hawing about what will actually be operational by 2016. It was not clear about whether it was with regard to West Palm Beach, or with regard to something north of West Palm Beach. Of course the radio guy thought that it might be the case that the whole thing to Orlando will be done by 2016 too, but then afterall he is a radio guy! :)
 
The split makes sense insofar as, IIRC, the loan was splitting along those lines already and FEC was able to get a FONSI for the coastal sections. I do seriously have to wonder, though...if they're just going to Cocoa, why not run some of the trains up to Jacksonville for now (since they have that ROW squared away) and do Orlando if/when the permissions get straightened out?
 
The split makes sense insofar as, IIRC, the loan was splitting along those lines already and FEC was able to get a FONSI for the coastal sections. I do seriously have to wonder, though...if they're just going to Cocoa, why not run some of the trains up to Jacksonville for now (since they have that ROW squared away) and do Orlando if/when the permissions get straightened out?
You know? I have wondered about that too. Though that would involve building at least 4 or 5 more stations on the way I suspect. Like Cocoa, Daytona, St. Augustine and Jacksonville Convention Center minimally, assuming they want to stay off of CSX entirely, and maybe Melbourne. All that could of course send the folks at Beach line into a tizzy. :)
 
The split is because AAF has all of the environmental approvals completed for the southern section between MIA and WPB. They received a FONSI from the FRA over a year ago. If they use their own money to build that then they could start tomorrow. A RRIF loan would require a FEIS record of decision. That won't be ready until sometime next year. So, if they don't get the loan until mid 2015, I can easily see the WPB to Orlando section not being complete until end of 2017. That pretty much fits in with the schedule for the airport station construction. I had read where that project wouldn't be complete until end of 2016 at the earliest.

Also, where would the maintenance base for the trains be at for a WPB to MIA operation? And the new Miami terminal appears to have only 3 tracks, not 4 as previously mentioned by AAF documents. You can find more renderings showing this at curbed Miami. Also, Mike Reininger mentioned in the radio interview there would be 16 trains between 7 and 10, not 6 and 9. I assume these times are first and last departures. That would definitely be better for weekend ridership I would think. Leave Miami at 10pm and be in Orlando somewhat rested at 1am vs driving. I would do that! I hate the drive on the turnpike btw especially at night.
 
The split makes sense insofar as, IIRC, the loan was splitting along those lines already and FEC was able to get a FONSI for the coastal sections. I do seriously have to wonder, though...if they're just going to Cocoa, why not run some of the trains up to Jacksonville for now (since they have that ROW squared away) and do Orlando if/when the permissions get straightened out?
You know? I have wondered about that too. Though that would involve building at least 4 or 5 more stations on the way I suspect. Like Cocoa, Daytona, St. Augustine and Jacksonville Convention Center minimally, assuming they want to stay off of CSX entirely, and maybe Melbourne. All that could of course send the folks at Beach line into a tizzy. :)
That is one possibility, though if they were only selling tickets from Orlando to select stations (MIA, FTL, WPB, and perhaps JAX, St. Augustine, and Daytona) the odds of the Beachline folks being able to do much seem slim since most of the traffic to/from Daytona and points north is going to go to via I-4, not the Beachline.

Stations shouldn't be an issue...in a pinch, FEC could put limited stations in place and expand them 5-10 years down the line (as capital permits and demand dictates), and I think they still own some modest-sized plots in several cities that could be expanded. You could probably get sufficient stations in all of the cities for a relatively low cost ($10-20m).

The most likely explanation is that there would be significant costs associated with needed capacity and/or track condition improvements. The lack of a pre-existing FONSI might also play a role here, though getting that for Cocoa-north shouldn't be that hard. Also, they'd need more trainsets to run anything from end to end...though I suspect that if they ran 2-3 trains/day north of Cocoa to a couple of FECshaks they'd still get substantial ridership, particularly if they were willing to time an early train into Jacksonville to grab the commuter market.

The second most likely explanation is that service on the whole route would get Jacksonville/St. Augustine talking about commuter rail on that end as well and FEC doesn't want to deal with that on top of their little back-and-forth with Tri-Rail. I do think FEC wants to ultimately handle the commuter stuff themselves, even if it means carrying less riders for higher prices than "traditional" commuter rail.

One other thought: 0700 is late to be starting trains from one end to the other. There's a reason the Acela starts at 0600 from NYP and 0500 from WAS.

Brief addendum to the above: Even assuming OOCEA wanted to be a pain about it, a one-way toll is $4.25 on the Beeline from end-to-end (cash toll; E-Pass and SunPass are $3.49). Considering the low level of diversions you'd be getting from the Beeline for points up north and so forth (not to mention that one car can hold multiple people), FEC might have to throw OOCEA a quarter for each ticket sold to make up for diversions if they get into a fight over this. Oh, the horror...

Cocoa is another story, but even there some sort of agreement to pay $1 or $2 per one-way ticket for the specific city pair of Orlando-Cocoa (the lower range makes more sense to me) should be doable.
 
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Tough question. On the one hand, in an attempt to avoid STB oversight, AAF stated that they have no plans to through-ticket with Amtrak. However, it does seem likely that there would be some connectivity in Jacksonville (should that line come to pass) whether AAF wants it or not, since the two station locations are relatively close.

As to an Amtrak train using the FEC tracks, that is another tricky question. It is highly likely that Amtrak would want to run all LD trains into their new station at the airport (and not AAF's station downtown), if only for maintenance reasons. They would probably want to cross back to the present Amtrak line as far north as possible, since having one train stop at one station and another stop elsewhere would confuse people...that sort of situation hasn't been a "thing" in 40 years. AAF being at one station and Amtrak at another is one thing, but having AAF at one station, some Amtrak trains at the other...and then one odd Amtrak train at the AAF station? Cue confusion.

To be fair, in some places this would be more of an issue than others. In West Palm Beach, the FEC station appears to be planned for a site roughly 1500 feet from the present Amtrak station, so straightening out a mix-up would involve less of a walk than some airport terminals involve. In Fort Lauderdale, the distance would be more like a mile. Miami and Orlando provide the biggest messes: Miami would be around 5-6 miles, and Orlando...is roughly the same distance in terms of travel time from the Orlando and Kissimmee stations (which is to say, around 20 minutes each, depending on how they ultimately sort out the parking lots at the Orlando Airport Station...bear in mind that the airport is like 4-5 miles across, so the south entrance is closer to Kissimmee while the north entrance is closer to Orlando).
I've always wondered why Amtrak's station of choice in Miami is the airport and not a downtown location. Do many people really connect from flights to the Silver Services? Ideally trains would serve both locations, but looking at the map I see it's pretty difficult to find a route that serves both, even if you don't mind multiple backup moves and do manage to get full cooperation of the freight railroads.
Metrorail Orange line runs from Amtrak/MIC Airport to Downtown at Government Center, site of the AAF station. While not changing trains would be good, Metrorail is already in place and would be much faster. MIC is Amtraks station of choice because its still close to Hialeah maintenance and the station at the airport will be much better location with Tri-Rail, Metrorail, bus, rental cars and airport in one station.
 
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Scott wants 'detailed conversation' on All Aboard Florida project



Gov. Rick Scott on Monday called on developers of a private railroad project to take more steps in response to questions and concerns of residents living who may be affected by All Aboard Florida, the first passenger train service on Florida's east coast in five decades.

Scott wrote to the project's president, Mike Reininger, on the same day that the Times/Herald published a story detailing the intense level of resistance, including formal opposition by Martin and Indian River counties and several towns along the route. ...

His office has received a flurry of critical mail from constituents about the venture. Scott's press office put this headline on the news release about the letter: "The Voices of Our Communities Must be Heard."
 
They'd better get this built quickly if they want to make any money from it. Everything south of Orlando is at *very severe risk* from sea level rise.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/08/us/florida-finds-itself-in-the-eye-of-the-storm-on-climate-change.html?_r=0

How high above sea level is the FEC line from Orlando to Miami? With the rise in sea level and storm surge levels, one good hurricane may do to this line what it did to the extension to Key West. Seawalls don't work in Florida due to the water-permeable geology which extends down forever.

The railroad could always elevate, I guess, but it's going to be harder for the residents. Very few buildings, even in Miami, are designed to keep working with a big water level rise in a storm.
 
Stations shouldn't be an issue...in a pinch, FEC could put limited stations in place and expand them 5-10 years down the line (as capital permits and demand dictates), and I think they still own some modest-sized plots in several cities that could be expanded. You could probably get sufficient stations in all of the cities for a relatively low cost ($10-20m).
I'm not so sure.

Isn't the capitaliting on real estate in and around the stations a central part of the AAF business plan. So if they wait with developing station sites, they basically face the full running costs without having the full income.
 
They'd better get this built quickly if they want to make any money from it. Everything south of Orlando is at *very severe risk* from sea level rise.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/08/us/florida-finds-itself-in-the-eye-of-the-storm-on-climate-change.html?_r=0

How high above sea level is the FEC line from Orlando to Miami? With the rise in sea level and storm surge levels, one good hurricane may do to this line what it did to the extension to Key West. Seawalls don't work in Florida due to the water-permeable geology which extends down forever.

The railroad could always elevate, I guess, but it's going to be harder for the residents. Very few buildings, even in Miami, are designed to keep working with a big water level rise in a storm.
There are quite a few examples of railroads running through areas that are treacherous from a hydrological point of view. It's all a question of providing adequate drainage and making structures sufficiently robust to survive the occasional pounding by high tides. It is a question of costs though and of who will foot the bill. If the sea starts to encroach on land, you always face the question of whether it is worth spending money securing and protecting that land or whether it is better to pick battles you can win and evacuate the land that's not worth saving and let the sea take it. FEC will not face the question alone but the whole city of Miami will have to think about this one at some point. The question boils down to how much property and business owners as well as the government etc are prepared to work together and contribute to any measures.
 
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The Florida East Coast RR follows US 1 so is 15-20 miles west of the ocean all the way from JAX to Miami. I drive along sections of the FEC and have never noticed any flooding even during flash flood warnings. The A line of the CSX runs closer to the St. John's River at some points between Orange Park and Del and than FEC is to the Atlantic. The St. John's is a very wide river in that area, but the rail bed is built up so flooding is rarely a problem there. There is no comparison between any railroad on Florida's peninsula and the Overseas Railway that Flagler built through the Florida Keys.
 
This simulator shows how long an AAF train will take at a grade crossing.



49 seconds is the same length I sit at a traffic light (on a good day). The people that are making a big deal over a 49 second wait time for a train, I hope they feel stupid when they see this video.
 
*blinks*
I'm actually tempted by those bonds. The main issue IMHO is the political risk to the operation more than anything.
 
What I notice in the Reuters report is "The terms allow Fortress to buy back some or all of the bond at 112 prior to January 1 2017 with the proceeds of a government loan." So they may pay off the bond early with the funding from the RRIF loan. If the terms of the RRIF loan allow that. 12% is a high rate, but there is a high risk factor.

My take on the $405 million bond sale is that AAF got tired of waiting on the US DOT and FRA to approve the RRIF loan. Must have decided they could afford the interest on the bond sale to get the property acquisition and construction started on the MIA to WPB segment. Probably figuring the RRIF applications will get approved, but the US DOT is taking its own long sweet bureaucratic time to do so. There is a US DOT Credit Council that approves loans and the April 2014 meeting agenda has an action item on one of the AAF applications:

" (d) IFA request for a $995.5 million RRIF loan application from All Aboard Florida for the portion of the line from West Palm Beach to Orlando - the Council recommended to the FRA Administrator the hiring of an IFA for application analysis." So get an Independent Financial Analyst (I think that is what IFA stands for) to review the application and get back to the FRA whenever.
 
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Well, I talked to my broker today, and he couldn't find anything in his system about these bonds. I'll admit that I'm sincerely interested in the issue...both for the yield (which is in obvious junk territory) and, frankly, to be able to make a clear point about putting my money where my mouth is. I wouldn't touch it if there was a high minimum investment/investment increment, but...well, if the amount was low (relatively speaking) I would be willing to take a gamble on $5k for this...

(I'd just make sure I got a certificate to frame...and I've lost more on boondoggles that would have gotten me less)
 
It's good to finally see something moving other than Nimby protests.

I do hope though that they manage to find an amicable arrangement with as many protesters as possible (as far as their objections are reasonable) because resentment is something a new enterprise can do without.
 
I think that there are three types of resentment involved, of which two are easy to deal with and the third, one can do not much. They are:

1. Exclusion resentment - why aren't we getting a station? How does it help our community?

2. Genuine money issues - who is going to pay for the grade crossing upgrades?

3. We hate change of any kind - Unadulterated NIMBY

The first can be handled with some finesse if Florida DoT, FEC and Amtrak start moving along on the MIA - JAX passenger service sooner rather than later. Separate project, but the public does not really know such nuances.

The second can be mitigated some by clever use of CMAQ, TIGER and other possible fund sources (perhaps even some redirected Highway funds) to handle much of it thus unburdening both AAF and the local communities. Still there will be some impact and that is life.

The third - well..... nothing can fix that.
 
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